Knife honing free hand. Why bother?

[Slash McCoy]

Gotcha. Ever tried hot wire cutting? I try to use it whenever I can on nylon. No need to whip the line if you get it right.

No good for ships mooring lines. Just have to cut the melted end off anyway for splicing, and it would take a pretty big hot knife quite a long time anyway.. I had one in the bosun's locker on my last ship. Old but still in the unopened box.

A properly applied whipping on a small line cannot come off unless you cut it or abrade through it. I have had occasion to melt the end of small stuff but not often. And of course you can't melt manila or other natural fibers.

 

[sfeile]

I've always felt edges are like knives. They have their intended uses and some suit different tasks better than others.
I kept a pull through in my tool belt for insulation knives. You don't want a razor edge, you want a good stout toothy utility edge. Same for rope and a lot of other general use cutting as Slash mentioned.
My EDC knife is..... actually dull right now..... but normally kept to a higher grade of "utility" edge. Not as toothy as my utility/work knives, but still not something that will dull the first piece of cardboard it touches.
My good kitchen knives I try to keep a balance between "razor" sharp and utility sharp. Get them super fine, and they bend and chip.
Razors obviously you don't want a toothy edge.

I normally hand sharpen or use a Lansky sharpener. I had someone who was supposedly a professional many years ago ruin a good knife on some sort of power sharpener. Gave a really bad first impression of them, so I've always steered clear of them. Now I've just gotten used to doing it the way I do, so why change?

 

[alpster]

I've always felt edges are like knives. They have their intended uses and some suit different tasks better than others.... Now I've just gotten used to doing it the way I do, so why change?

I couldn't agree more that different edges are useful for different tasks. This is part of the genius of the Worksharp. There is a progression of belts from 80 - 30K (micromesh) and you can stop wherever you like. The belts are as easy to change in a couple of seconds. As to why change? I've been a Land surveyor for 40 years. When I started we used a transit & tape and a 4 man crew. Now I work alone with a fully robotic total station and RTK GPS. I can do more work alone in a few hours than I used to do in several days with a four man crew. Change can be good.

 

[buca3152]

I agree with that. Faster is always better imo anyway. I do touch up.my pocket knives on a dmt. I don't think I would put a small knife on a belt sander though. That tool has the advantage there. But then again I already had the sander. I may get it anyway! But for.now I can get a very serviceable edge the way I'm doing it now. The worksharp is a lot cheaper than the Ken Onion branded. Have you ever used that one and is it worth the extra for a handful of pocket knives? I don't think I will need it for the kitchen knives although if I got it I would use it.

 

[sfeile]

I couldn't agree more that different edges are useful for different tasks. This is part of the genius of the Worksharp. There is a progression of belts from 80 - 30K (micromesh) and you can stop wherever you like. The belts are as easy to change in a couple of seconds. As to why change? I've been a Land surveyor for 40 years. When I started we used a transit & tape and a 4 man crew. Now I work alone with a fully robotic total station and RTK GPS. I can do more work alone in a few hours than I used to do in several days with a four man crew. Change can be good.

Point taken. Change can be good. I adapt new things in all the time to other things I do, so that was a bad statement.
I guess it's one thing I don't do enough of to feel it needed a change.

 

[buca3152]

Ok. I decided to get the Ken Onion knife sharpener from Amazon. It came today. Works great. Got the leather belt with some white compound and an extra set of belts. I did a few today. Very sharp and keen. The guide system is nice. Seems to be made very well. My 1x30 sander cuts faster. But that's no biggie. This cuts plenty fast too. I like the variable speed as well as the easy angle adjustment. It's a keeper.

 

[rideon66]

I noticed Ardennes sellers a clip on guide now. Seems like it is a common issues for people to get good repeatable results on knives.

 

[buca3152]

Free hand, and a load of systems too. My razors last 100.shaves. thank heavens the wife doesn't handle them! Lol. Otherwise I would be honing them every other day!

 

[alpster]

Ok. I decided to get the Ken Onion knife sharpener from Amazon. It came today. Works great. Got the leather belt with some white compound and an extra set of belts. I did a few today. Very sharp and keen. The guide system is nice. Seems to be made very well. My 1x30 sander cuts faster. But that's no biggie. This cuts plenty fast too. I like the variable speed as well as the easy angle adjustment. It's a keeper.

Just wait until you break down and get the belt grinder attachment. LOL No enablers here...

 

[buca3152]

You mean there's more? Lol. For grinding I have a Delta 6 inch that I've had forever. And a harbor freight buffer. I have the 1x30 and 3 x 36 bench sanders. I think I'm good. Unless you want to help me.build a bigger barn to put these in! Lol. And then we would have to get the portable saw mill. Hahahaha.

 

[alpster]

You mean there's more? Lol. For grinding I have a Delta 6 inch that I've had forever. And a harbor freight buffer. I have the 1x30 and 3 x 36 bench sanders. I think I'm good. Unless you want to help me.build a bigger barn to put these in! Lol. And then we would have to get the portable saw mill. Hahahaha.

The "belt grinder" attachment is a bit of a misnomer. Its only about 8"long and uses a little longer belt. I prefer it for knife sharpening. For re-profiling or grinding a blade, it would not be my first choice.

 

[psfred]

I'll be sort of a nay-sayer here - I prefer knives sharpened by hand on stones. It is an acquired skill, it takes some practice, but my personal preference for most knives (there are exceptions) is a decent basic grind, tending toward the thin and slightly convex with a small flat bevel produced on a 1000 grit stone and polished on a 6000 grit stone. Final strop on soft wood loaded with chromium oxide most of the time.

That said, I also strongly prefer Japanese style knives with thin profiles and very hard steel. Not much point in attempting to produce a fine, very keen edge on Cromova steel, it won't last the first cut. Big old German honkers of knives need a fairly coarse edge if you expect it to last, and a fairly blunt (20 degree plus included angle) bevel, or the edge just folds over on contact with a cutting board. Cromova has very coarse carbides and is very wear resistant. No way to put a fine edge on it, the carbides rip out of the soft matrix of steel, leaving a "swiss cheese" effect.

Belt sanders t\do nasty things to Japanese style knives, staring with serious microchipping of the edge if you use too much pressure.

Only takes me a few minutes to get my knives back into excellent shape on the stones, and at the current rate of use, I'm only doing that once or twice a year. In general, I'm not sharpening the western knives at all, we have someone coming in to help with Mom twice a week, and they get beaten all to hell during dish washing and being tossed into the kitchen stuff drawer instead of being put back in the block. I'll keep them in better shape when I don't have ham fisted people in my kitchen.

 

[buca3152]

That works. But for a touch-up you can use a pasted leather strop on the sander. Or a high grit belt. Not criticizing hand work now. The heavy grinding is done on abused knives. But I will say this. Just for kicks. I sharpened one on a 220 belt. Deburred it. And it cuts great. I'm not cutting sushi. And most meat i buy is already processed. Like everything though it's ymmv. I prefer a fast method. And after a week these knives are all banged up again. Watching a sushi chef or other professional. They are very mindful of what they do with their knives. I don't have that here. Lol. I just got a decent pull sharpener for touch-up.

 

[Jnatcat]

My knife skills lack, I do very well with straights thank heavens as I would hate to try and shave with my knife edges

 

[psfred]

Lol, you will get a nasty surprise if you pull a decent Japanese gyuto thorough one of those sharpeners -- usually takes big bites out of the edge.

Fast methods work with big heavy soft stainless, not so much with the ones I prefer.

Knives used on meat need a coarser edge than those used for raw fish. And I am mindful of all sharp things, else I cut myself, I'm really a klutz.

 

[buca3152]

Paper cut as standard for knife sharpness is too easy of a test. I use a cherry tomato. Even though they are $2.99 a lb. Lol. But plenty of paper cutting edges won't pass the tomato test.

 

[buca3152]

Lol, you will get a nasty surprise if you pull a decent Japanese gyuto thorough one of those sharpeners -- usually takes big bites out of the edge.

Fast methods work with big heavy soft stainless, not so much with the ones I prefer.

Knives used on meat need a coarser edge than those used for raw fish. And I am mindful of all sharp things, else I cut myself, I'm really a klutz.

Thanks for the warning! For ease of use I'm sticking to stainless. Not looking to get into expensive knives. Not knocking them either. Unless gold.dollar starts making them I'm good. Hahhahah. I got a Kuma for $25. On the high end. Lol.

 

[paintflinger]

I've been freehanding my knives for awhile and getting utility type edges. I've really focused on chasing scary sharp edges as of late and it has been a learning experience. I cannot seem to get the front curved portions sharp when freehanding. The backs of my knives almost sink through onions with just the knife weight. I'm currently sharpening VG-10 steel, which can be rather chippy.

Paper cut as standard for knife sharpness is too easy of a test. I use a cherry tomato. Even though they are $2.99 a lb. Lol. But plenty of paper cutting edges won't pass the tomato test.

I actually like plum tomatoes for this. Cheaper per pound (cherry are 3.99/lb here) and they taste great with a little salt and pepper. They've also got good surface area to weight ratio.

The things we think about for honing...

 

[psfred]

Examine the curve with a loupe, chances are you are not rotating the handle of the knife enough to get the point. You have to lift the handle to keep the edge in contact, and it's not a "normal" motion, you have to learn it. Took me a while, but if you have a decent knife, it should be well ground all the way out. Unlike non-japanese knives, the point should be sharp all the way out. Different curve than German or American knives too. Practice while not moving the knife on the stone until you get the motion worked out.

VG-10 is great steel except that it can hold a foil edge forever. It is very hard though, and can take a while to fix a bad grind.

I'm fond of Tojiro DP knives -- very plain as they are really restaruant knives in Japan, but well made, get and stay very very sharp, and are inexpensive for Japanese knives. My 300 mm gyuto was less than $100.

All high end Japanese style knives run RC 61 and up, and carbide disk "pull through" sharpeners will fracture the edges badly. Using a serrated knife steel will damage them too if you use much pressure, and since the knife is harder than the steel, it won't help the edge any. They get dull from actual erosion of the apex or micro-fractures, unlike soft German knives that have the edge fail by folding or bending. I also don't recommend abrasive rods either, they are very very difficult to hold at the correct angle to restore the edge.

 

[rideon66]

The Ken onion will also do scissors which I can't do on a stone. My Japanese white #2 knives still only get the stones those don't need a machine. My old dull stainless from over 20 years ago do.