Kitchen Knives; Wusthof, Henckels or Ginsu

[The Count of Merkur Cristo]

My knives and tools of choice for 34yrs (working from a Apprentice, Certified Working Chef and now Certified Executive Chef), has been Henckels blades and I stand by and reconmend them (and wouldn't think of using any other brand), as the best.

Christopher

"Success is a lot of small things done correctly". Chef Fernand Point

Attached Images - My Knives & Tools of the Trade & My Carrying Case.

 

[malocchio]

thanks to the great info on this thread,I finally broke down and bought some real kitchen knives...from what I learned on this posting,I decided to go with victorinox knives with the fibrox handles....a 10" bread ,a 4.75" paring and an 8" santoku....these have really turned out to be just what I needed,and the sizes I really need in my kitchen...they cut effortlessly and the synthetic grips are virtually impossible to slide through wet hands..thanks for the great info !

 

[FunnyHoney]

Don't buy a set; you really only need an 8" chef, a bread knife, a paring knife, and maybe a slicer if you're feeling frisky.
Wusthof and Henckel both make respectable knives with heavy steel that's on the softer side. If you treat them correctly they'll last for a decade, but they're going to require more consistent maintenance than a Global or Tamahagane. They're also 1/3 of the price. Just think of it as an opportunity to build your honing skills with your loved ones.

If you really want bang for your buck, check out the knives made by Victorinox, formerly Victorinox-Forbischer. They're consistantly ranked as the go-to knife by polls of caterers, and in America's Test Kitchen. While not pretty, they do get the job done. Webiste's here: http://www.victorinox.com/content/cutlery/category/2;jsessionid=3C2EF988404F318A2EF23B94A985BC81

Oh, and some "features" to ignore when picking out knives (because they don't mean anything and have zero impact on performance): forged, stamped, full-tang or full-bolster, precision edged.

I agree. Victorinox kitchen knives are good for the price (around $20-$30). Besides, doesn't matter how expensive/good knives are if they're dull. Learning to sharpen knives is a very good skill to learn. Because you can go to thrift store and pick up a $0.50 knife and sharpen it, and it'll cut just as good as a brand new $100 knife (YMMV).

 

[jtoddaz]

As you can see, you've opened a can of worms!

I think there's universal agreement that buying a set doesn't make any sense and that deciding how to keep your knives sharp is an important part of the equation.

In terms of types of knives you "need", the general consensus is that you need a chef's knife (or other all purpose knife style such as a santoku), a paring knife and a bread knife.

If you're looking for high end European makers, I generally think Wustof is better than Henckels. If you're looking for a good value, I really like the Victorinox/Forschner line - you can get them with black plastic handles (which are comfortable, but utilitarian looking) or the same blade with rosewood handles. Here's a link http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fokn.html

They are not the sexiest knives, they won't impress knife geeks, but, with proper maintenance, you will get years of service from them. Interestingly, Chef's Illustrated consistently rates these as great knives and that they have several of the dimensional attributes of Japanese knives, which gives them very good cutting performance (but the steel of the Forschners is not as good or hard as that found in the majority of Japanese knives).

If I was on a budget, I'd buy the Forschners and would have my knives for under $100 and be happy with them.

In terms of a chef's knife, 8 inches is about as small as most people want to go - you can go up to 10 inches if you want, but bigger isn't necessarily better.

In terms of a bread knife, don't cheap out. I think this is a situation where bigger is better and you want a 10 inch knife with a decently stiff blade (no whippy dollar store special). You can get straight or slightly curved blades - I prefer the curved version.

In terms of a paring knife, I really like the Forschner versions with the plastic handles - cheap, thin, flexible - everything I want in a paring knife and basically so cheap they're practically disposable.

For sharpening, you can either keep it simple or go off the deep end. So, while the sky's the limit, I'm guessing that you want to keep this simple and want to find a way to easily maintain the edges on your knives without having to get into the science of free-hand sharpening on multiple stones. Assuming this is correct, I think Chef's Choice makes some excellent manual pull-through sharpeners with a coarse and medium/fine stages. While this won't get your knives as sharp as high-grit stones, when combined with a sharpening steel or ceramic sharpening rod (my preference) for touch ups, a good pull through sharpener is will do the job with no fuss or muss.

It's funny you say that, because we've owned a set of rosewood Forschner for about 12 yrs, and every time we take them to get sharpened, they guy goes crazy about how these are the best knives for the money out there. I think that's pretty well known now, but it was funny to hear him rant every visit. IMO, the 6" Rosewood chefs and 5.5-6" Fibrox Santuko are my "go to"

 

[brucered]

well, now you got me thinking of knifes.

out 10y old Henkels have broken handles, missing knives and are very dull (never cared for properly). they were the Twin Gourmet and very high end at the time and have served us well, but we are slowly upgrading out everyday products. we purchased a very nice set of Paderno Fusion 5 pots last year and LOVE them, and knives are next on the list.

we will NOT be buying a set. we looked at Wusthof Blackwood and Classic Blackwood, but i'm now looking at the "Victorinox Swiss Classic" with nylon or composite handles.

they are cheap enough, we can buy which ones we want and use the money we save on the actual knives to get them sharpened professionaly when needed (yearly, 2x a year?)

looks like i can:
21cm bread knife
Santoku Knife, Fluted
3 pc paring knife set

all for under $65 shipped, which isn't half bad.

thoughts?

 

[Pkrankow]

they are cheap enough, we can buy which ones we want and use the money we save on the actual knives to get them sharpened professionaly when needed (yearly, 2x a year?)

If you do some sharpening yourself (proper use of a steel) then 1x-2x per year as needed. (I doubt you will go much longer than a year) If one blade needs, then send the lot. If you blow edges using a steel like someone I know (thankfully not in my household), then weekly.

Phil

 

[jtoddaz]

Look at that, 3 knives for less than the cost of 1 high end Wustof. Go for it! If you want to invest in a high end knife in the future, you have that option, but for a quick immediate upgrade, you can't beat Victorinox.

 

[justpursuit]

I love my shuns.

 

[Legion]

We use Furi coppertail knives in my house. They are really good. I haven't tried the brands in question, so I can't say how they compare, but the Furi ones are quality.

I use this set, + a chinese cleaver, + a small knife I made myself. It is all we need.

http://www.everten.com.au/product/Furi-Knife-Gift-Set-Coppertail.html

 

[miamimoe]

+2 on just getting the essentials. I have four knives: 10" chef, 6" paring/petty, 10" serrated bread knife, and 6" boning knife (for chicken, ribs, etc.). These 4 will do anything you need. The chef and paring/petty or Togiahru Japanese, which cost $100 and $60.00. The other 2 are Forschners that I paid $30.00 for combined, so I have about $200.00 total. Also purchased a ceramic sharpening steel. I am as happy as could be and really can't see buying knives until the serrated knife goes bad, which it will a few years down the road.

+2 on having her check them out. The feel of the knife in the hand is very subjective, and the only way to find out is for her to try them out. I used to have Wusthoff and some Mundial, and then went to the Japanese knives, the chefs and paring/petty, because they get 90% of the use. I found them to be more nimble than the Euro knives. But again, this is what works for me. So, take her to a chef or restaurant supply house, and have her check them out.

 

[Abdiel]

Knives made for the industrial butcher, meat cutter or restaurant cook are made of stamped steel to be affordable to replace, because they are used and sharpened so often that a breaking knife will be reduced to the profile of a boning knife in a matter of months.

When shopping for cutlery, I believe your better off buying the best you can afford, knives that are sturdy enough to handle years daily use in a home kitchen, who wants to buy three sets of knives at all.

This is true, but to a point. I would say a better rule of thumb is by the best you need and can afford.

The average home cook does not need several hundred dollars worth of knife sitting in their knife block. And while my Sabatiers sure are pretty, after having them for several years I can honestly say they have served me no better than knives a fraction of their price would have at the restaurant supply store.

Sure, they may last a relatively short time in the professional setting. But a few months in a professional kitchen can easily translate to years of use in a home kitchen.

 

[Suzuki]

well, now you got me thinking of knifes.

out 10y old Henkels have broken handles, missing knives and are very dull (never cared for properly). they were the Twin Gourmet and very high end at the time and have served us well, but we are slowly upgrading out everyday products. we purchased a very nice set of Paderno Fusion 5 pots last year and LOVE them, and knives are next on the list.

we will NOT be buying a set. we looked at Wusthof Blackwood and Classic Blackwood, but i'm now looking at the "Victorinox Swiss Classic" with nylon or composite handles.

they are cheap enough, we can buy which ones we want and use the money we save on the actual knives to get them sharpened professionaly when needed (yearly, 2x a year?)

looks like i can:
21cm bread knife
Santoku Knife, Fluted
3 pc paring knife set

all for under $65 shipped, which isn't half bad.

thoughts?

I'm not a Santoku fan, but that's a personall preference type of things lots of guys like the style and its less intimidating to many people than a large chef's knife.

I think you'll be very happy with these - as would most amateur chefs if they could get over the utilitarian appearance and fact that they're not made of some uber special steel.

Before the knife gurus dump on me, I'm not trying to say that the Forschners (or other quality "food service" type knives) are the best knives out there, just that they represent some of the best values and are more than up to the tasks that the average family asks of their knives.

Yes the steel is softer than higher-end knives, but that's easily fixed with a ceramic rod sharpener for ongoing maintenance and a good pull thorugh sharpener for whenever the ceramic rod doesn't seem to be donig the trick.

 

[brucered]

well, now you got me thinking of knifes.

out 10y old Henkels have broken handles, missing knives and are very dull (never cared for properly). they were the Twin Gourmet and very high end at the time and have served us well, but we are slowly upgrading out everyday products. we purchased a very nice set of Paderno Fusion 5 pots last year and LOVE them, and knives are next on the list.

we will NOT be buying a set. we looked at Wusthof Blackwood and Classic Blackwood, but i'm now looking at the "Victorinox Swiss Classic" with nylon or composite handles.

they are cheap enough, we can buy which ones we want and use the money we save on the actual knives to get them sharpened professionaly when needed (yearly, 2x a year?)

looks like i can:
21cm bread knife
Santoku Knife, Fluted
3 pc paring knife set

all for under $65 shipped, which isn't half bad.

thoughts?

i guess i should have bought them back in may....the above knives are now $90 or so on amazon.ca. looks like a few of them were 1/2 off back in May...oh well

 

[Alacrity59]

It's all about value. And guess what . . . we all value different things, to some extent. If you never want to sharpen a knife then Ginsu is great . . . when the get too silly hard to use . . . well buy a new set. I value a sharp edge and don't mind spending some time on maintenance . . . so I have a taste for different knives. I also like a great story so . . . well so now I own a few nice Japanese knives.

In my case I take pride in having my knives ready to use. Whether it is the pairing knife that was packed in my gear when I left home and probably came from a five and dime, or the latest knife I purchased.

 

[Stubblefield]

As long as it's from a respected maker, even a low-priced knife (<$40) will last for 10 years with proper care.

Agree. That's why I buy Dexter Sof-Grips. Inexpensive, and they are easy to maintain.

Of course, I also have a bunch of Forschners, but I always seem to go with the Dexter.

 

[zretineo1979]

I would love to get some porsche knives. They have great steel, and no joints for food to rest in.

 

[Alacrity59]

I have a porshe design portable hard drive . . . looks pretty. Maybe they lend their name out a bit too easily though?

 

[dpm802]

I am building a set of Kuhn Rikon knives ... I have the 6" chef's knife and the 8" bread knife, I'll be adding a parer and utility and Santoku every payday for the next few months. I like the way they are wicked sharp, but especially that each comes with its own custom sheath. I can leave them out on the kitchen table and they are always protected yet handy to use.

 

[Alacrity59]

My sister in law gave me a couple of these Kuhn Rikon knives last Christmas. She was told that these were the sharpest knives in the shop. I felt a bit like it was bringing coal to Newcastle but they were indeed very sharp . . . probably as sharp a knife as I've ever purchased. I prefer other knives . . . and I have always sharpened a new purchase myself before use . . . except these Kukn Rikons and the knives I've purchased in the group buys here that are sharpened by Dave Martell on the back of his can opener. . . . (I wonder if he will see this . . . cause I'm just teasing him about the can opener . . . I think he does them on the concrete floor in his basement.)


In any case dpm802 . . . a nice non serrated blade can be sharpened over and over to a passable sharpness or freeking sharp. Some metal holds an edge longer and some metals are easier to sharpen . . . The two things are apparently not found in the same knife.


Mike

 

[dpm802]

The thing I adore about these Kuhn Rikon knives is that each one has its own sheath. I don't have a knife block yet, and these can sit out on the kitchen table and still be safe and protected. And they are relatively inexpensive, between $10~$20 each. If I ever upgrade to a really fine set of knives, I'm donating these to the break room where I work.

The 6" chef's knife was wicked sharp when I first bought it ... it didn't hold that edge very long. when I tried to sharpen it after 6 months, I actually dulled the edge. My next attempt with a different sharpener turned out much better, but it took a good 50~60 passes with coarse and medium ceramic V-rods before I felt it was ready to return to duty.

My sister in law gave me a couple of these Kuhn Rikon knives last Christmas. She was told that these were the sharpest knives in the shop. I felt a bit like it was bringing coal to Newcastle but they were indeed very sharp . . . probably as sharp a knife as I've ever purchased. I prefer other knives . . . and I have always sharpened a new purchase myself before use . . . except these Kukn Rikons and the knives I've purchased in the group buys here that are sharpened by Dave Martell on the back of his can opener. . . . (I wonder if he will see this . . . cause I'm just teasing him about the can opener . . . I think he does them on the concrete floor in his basement.)


In any case dpm802 . . . a nice non serrated blade can be sharpened over and over to a passable sharpness or freeking sharp. Some metal holds an edge longer and some metals are easier to sharpen . . . The two things are apparently not found in the same knife.


Mike