King 300 Deluxe problems

[Jfit427]

Hello all,

New member here, long time lurker. Lots of great information here and I’ve been reading it for years and decided to finally sign up.

Hoping someone can help with this new stone. I do a lot of eBay find restorations and I got tired of setting bevels on my Shapton pro 1000, or really my wife got sick of how much time I was spending in my shave den lol. So I decided to invest in a better coarse stone. I had a cheap 400/1000 but it was slow cutting and fast to dish. So I spend a lot of time researching 300 to 400 grit stones. Thought about the Shapton pto 320, the SG 320 and 500, Chosera 400 and 600 Cerax 320 etc and ultimately decided on the king 300 deluxe. It was supposed to be nothing like the other king stones. And I would agree with that. It’s hard, slow to dish, medium to fast cutting, and it’s basically a splash and go, abit thirsty though.
I was very pleased with it at first, was able to set a bevel in about 20 mins. These are 100 year old eBay razors with no bevel left at all. Usually takes me a few hours. Then I noticed it wasn’t quite as coarse as it once was and it was cutting slower then my SP1000. Mind you I’ve only had the stone for a week. I swear it’s finer and smoother then my SP2000. Almost like it’s burnished/glasses/smoothed over.

So I thought maybe I needed to lap/refresh the surface, even though there seems or better no metal build up or anything. Got some 220 grit wet/dry and got it nice and flat, but still smooth as baby. Then I tried my sic lapping plate, and after this it might have been a little bit better, but not much. I read about people refreshing the stone with loose 60 grit sic powder, but I don’t have any of that so I tried some 60 grit W/d, and same result.

It’s almost like the stone and binder is so hard it’s not releasing any new grit, and the existing grit has been worn down. As you all know, we don’t use a ton of pressure with straights and they are kind of fragile. So I thought maybe that was the problem. It’s the guys on the woodworking forum who really praise this stone so I got out one of my chisels and flattened the back of it, putting a lot more pressure thinking maybe it would release new grit, but still nothing. And the scratch pattern on the chisel is no 300 grit pattern, more like a 2000.

So does anyone have any advice? I have had many synthetic water stones over the years and never ever had this problem. I’m starting to really regret not just buying the Shapton pro 320 or the glass 320 or 500. This stone started out great, and the other side is still coarse like it should be. I really want to love this stone. It’s a straight brick. Probably 3 times as thick as my shapton pros, and just as wide and long. It would last for years of low grit grunt work. But It’s no good like this. I still have time to return it and buy a SP320 or SG320 or 500.

Sorry for writing a novel. And thanks in advance for any help y’all can provide.

 

[buca3152]

Diamond plates for rough work is what I do. They cut fast. Never dish and last a long time. I would get a 325 for stuff like that. And then use your other stones for the rest of it. And a 325 is great for lapping your stones as well.

 

[Jfit427]

Ya I was considering a diamond plate originally. But the king 300 was like 25 bucks shipped, and really highly regarded so I figured it was worth a shot.

I think a diamond plate would be a good choice for what I do. What brand would you suggest? Everyone seems to like the atoma 400, but it’s pricey.

last night I experimented with an oil stone I have for my axes. The Norton Crystolon India combo. It’s a puck, but I figured I could do circles to get the bevel started. It’s very rough though, I think it’s a120/320 and I was amazed that I was able to get about 85% of the bevel done in less then 5 minutes. After the coarse Crystolon side I did some more circles on the fine India 320 side, and then to the 1000 Shapton pro and it worked great. That
120 coarse side is very coarse though. To coarse for my liking. I think a medium or fine would be about perfect. maybe this could be the solution im looking for. But in a bench stone instead of this circle puck. They’re very reasonably priced too

 

[buca3152]

Atoma 400 is not good for steel imo. Get the DMT 325 is what I would do. Amazon around$50 or so although I haven't looked at prices for a while.

 

[Chandu]

Search for Baronyx Mutt.

diamond will work and you will have to pay the freight if you go that route.

 

[Jfit427]

Thats a great idea. I’m very familiar with baryonyx co. I have his artic fox puck for my axes. It’s by far the best axe stone on the market. I know the American mutt is supposed to be very fast cutting. I’ll look into it.


But no suggestions on this king 300? I’d love to make this thing work. If not, I still have time to return it.

 

[bluesman 7]

But no suggestions on this king 300? I’d love to make this thing work. If not, I still have time to return it.

None of my business, but I would suggest that a stone that you have lapped and changed it's effectiveness is no longer in a condition that can ethically be returned.

 

[Jfit427]

Oh I would definitely make them aware that I used it and my issues with it. It was cheap enough if they won’t accept it back it’s not the end of the world. I can’t imagine I got a defective stone. But at the same time there’s no way it’s supposed to be like this. I must be missing something. The only thing I haven’t tried that I’ve seen suggested is 60 grit loose sic powder. But how different can that really be then the 60 grit wet/dry I already used. This stone is held in fairly high regard in terms of coarse stones. So I don’t understand what’s going on or what I’m missing. I started using the other side that was still nice and coarse and fast cutting but slowly that side is getting the same smoothed over burnished effect.

In the mean time I already ordered a 325 dmt. I think it might be the answer I’m looking for.

 

[skyfire1]

I know I have had issues before with King stones if I didn't soak them long enough. I believe they state to soak the stone for at least 15 minutes to ensure the water goes into the pores. Try soaking the stone for 15 minutes and try again to see if it improves. To make sure try it again a different day and soak it for 30 minutes and try again and then compare the two results. King stones are not like the shapton or naniwa ceramic stones that are truely splash and go stones. Let us know how it works out for you. One caveat I must state is that high grit King stones like the 6k and 8k should not be soaked very long, a minute or two max.

 

[Jfit427]

At first I started out using it as a splash and go as that’s what it’s marketed as, but I realized how thirsty it is. So I started giving it a quick soak, maybe it 5 to 10 mins before using. Didn’t seem to do much. But maybe you're right and it needs a longer soak. I’ll try 20 to 30 mins today. Like I said I want to love this stone. It’s huge and will last a very long time. And it started off as a pretty fast cutting stone with great feedback and feel.

 

[bluesman 7]

The only thing I haven’t tried that I’ve seen suggested is 60 grit loose sic powder. But how different can that really be then the 60 grit wet/dry I already used.

Quite a bit different actually. The two methods cut in completely different ways. I have a knife stone that loose grit is recommended for for lapping that I lapped with W/D and it acted like you're describing until I wore through the surface layer. You can get small quantities of grit from gotgrit.com

 

[Jfit427]

Hmm, ok that gives me some hope then. I’ll go ahead and order some. But it kind of sounds like a pain At the same time. having to resurface the stone after basically every bevel or two I set? Part of the reason I went with a harder stone like the king was for less maintenance with lapping and all that. And now the cheaper price of the stone and good deal I thought I was getting isn’t so great anymore. The stone plus this loose sic powder is now more expensive then if I would have bought the shapton pro or glass. I guess you live and learn.

 

[Jfit427]

Well I did both. Bought the 325 DMT. Should be here Saturday. Really excited to see the cutting speed of it. But I also ordered some loose 60 grit sic powder. I hope it gets this stone cutting again and back to semi coarse. Right now it feels like a 2000 or 300 grit. Scratch pattern is similar to that too. I really want this stone to work out.

 

[Jfit427]

Well I got the sic powder and I can’t believe how well it worked. It’s back to how it was when I bought it. Nice and coarse. I was skeptical as I had already lapped it with 60 grit sand paper. Couldn’t see how loose 60 grit would make that much of a difference but it definitely did. Really happy with the stone now.

On another note the diamond plate came. Used it first on a blade with a bunch of massive chips in it that may not be salvageable just to get it broken in a bit. Still very coarse after that. Set one bevel an almost messed up the toe as it took metal off so fast.

So now I have two very good stones for this low grit work. Hopefully this helps someone else who runs into the same problem. And thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

 

[bluesman 7]

Good to hear @Jfit427. Thanks for the update.