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Kill it ?

Ok this is for you old pros. Each time I buy what I think is a finer stone I just continue to hone . As in I do not kill the edge I have . I hone as I imagine one would to touch up an edge. It seems to work well enough for me. The question is should I start from the beginning? I'm always experimenting and learning so it's just something I haven't asked yet. My example would be that I had some razors that have coticule edge. When I got my Welsh slate I just hones on slate thinking the grit was higher. Now some slate edges I have I have taken to my new Escher. I haven't noticed any negative so far. Just throwing it out there to get some feedback or direction. It's always tricky asking opinions here but I am the type to ask. Thanks for any comments.
 

steveclarkus

Goose Poop Connoisseur
I'm not an old pro - just old but I believe the edge takes on the characteristics of the last stone you use wiping out the previous stone's "feel". Interesting question and I look forward to reading what the true old pros have to say. I must disclose that I use lapping film and pasted balsa except for bevel setting though. I just go for really sharp.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
I think Steve is right, for the most part. The last stone or other media used is what sets the final "feel" of the edge. YMMV cause this can be very subjective. And I don't think it is generally necessary to spoil the edge in order to hone it. I never do. But you can, of course, and the only harm you will have done is honed away a few extra nanograms of steel and taken a few minutes longer to hone the blade. So do it if you wanna, but don't think it is a really necessary thing.
 
I agree with the above 100%. Bevel setting stones are for restorations, finishing stones are for finishing and the two are exclusive of the other. If you have a new razor in hand, but not that razor's last stone, your new stone to that razor will have to mechanically make that razor it's new stone. A razors edge mimics the last stone that it touched. Convex stones create concave bevels and vice a versa. And this is fine too but the differences between the two profiles, if extreme can take a good amount of time to rectify. Honing a razor that has a rounded bevel would take longer to reset by using only your finishing stone if that stone was itself rounded in the convex. You can do it of course but bevel setting is a shortcut.

Most fellows judiciously keep their stones flat, sometimes it is easier to wipe the board clean and begin with known factors. Flat is an easier target for stones and razor bevels. Make that razor yours by practicing one of the most basic steps in razor honing, bevel setting.

Alex Gilmore
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Ok this is for you old pros. Each time I buy what I think is a finer stone I just continue to hone . As in I do not kill the edge I have . I hone as I imagine one would to touch up an edge. It seems to work well enough for me. The question is should I start from the beginning? I'm always experimenting and learning so it's just something I haven't asked yet. My example would be that I had some razors that have coticule edge. When I got my Welsh slate I just hones on slate thinking the grit was higher. Now some slate edges I have I have taken to my new Escher. I haven't noticed any negative so far. Just throwing it out there to get some feedback or direction. It's always tricky asking opinions here but I am the type to ask. Thanks for any comments.

I forgot to add that there is one good reason to not glass or otherwise kill the edge of a razor. When you do, you are increasing the speed at which you reduce the blade width relative to the speed at which you reduce the spine thickness. This will eventually lead to a more obtuse bevel angle. You can be concerned about this, or not. Your razor. For the same reason, I no longer breadknife an edge to correct it.
 
Hi Dick,

Since you are presumably honing for yourself, I would probably not kill the edge. If the new finisher does not reach the edge completely, or you can't sense any improvement, no harm done just hone some more. If you were honing for some one else in order for them to sample an edge off of a particular stone, I would be more inclined to kill the edge, reset the bevel with a midrange stone [3k/5k], prefinisher, finisher, so that I could insure the other person was really getting a true sample of the hone in question.

I've never been one to re hone all of my razors with a new stone or technique. If I had something new I would just wait until each razor needed attention. That said if the new stone was that much better, my standards may be raised to the point that all of my razors were due to be honed.
 
If you are learning to hone the goal is to bring up an edge from a 1k stone and up to finish. Now if you continue doing mid and finish work you may eventually set a bevel that you didn't know wasn't set yet. Once you KNOW you have done so enough times then you can call yourself proficient.
 
I would not "kill" a razor's edge by rubbing it across glass, etc. From my experience, this is deforming the edge. If you used a coticule followed by a Welsh slate, and the Thuri does not seem to be advancing sharpness (not that it necessarily should in this case) then I would suggest going back to the coticule and honing on it, to re-establish a coticule edge, then move to the Thuri.

Thuris are widely respected on the shaving forums, and I can appreciate a Thuri edge. But personally, I prefer the purple or "Welsh Thuri" edge's keeness to a Thuri's edge. But supposing that that "Genuine Water Hone" was used with oil, it would need to be cleaned up first to really know how it acts.
 
I can think of only two reasons for killing the edge. One is if the edge has chips, either chips from damage, or microchips from a brittle edge. The second would be if the razor has a frowning edge and you need to remove metal from the heal and toe without removing metal from the middle, but that would need to be done on a flat stone rather than on something like the rim of a glass, or the corner of a hone. You might consider either of the situations to be restoration.
 
Good info from everyone above. I would add that it is possible to get an edge that has characteristics of more than one hone if only very little work is done with hone B after hone A is used. Until hone B wipes out all the scratches from hone A it can be considered a hybrid edge. Of course it doesn't take much work to overwrite the scratches from a very fine hone.
 
All good input. As I'm buying "finer stones " I'm just seeing want happens to an already good edge. I usually go from king 1k to a very soft coticule with heavy slurry. Then bbw fallowes by a hard coticule. When I got a slate I took a coticule directly to the slate. For a couple of my razors I have done tthe same from slate to thuri. As for repair or eBay razors it's been all over the place. Mainly wanted to know for swapping with members and for my very nice German blades that are already good. I've not used tape in a long time and also not killed an edge before working on it. The reference to the old pro is to see what y'all did early on in order to know what you know now. Thanks
 
Also I call the coticule soft due to the level of auto slurry . It's similar to the king when used with only water there is a lot of slurry produced . All of my edges sorry far are satisfactory . Doesn't mean I know anything. But maybe one day by picking y'all's brains and practicing I can . Thanks again.
 
Whenever I would get a new stone I would take a known "good steel" razor back to maybe 3k to clear up anything that has transpired with the previous shaving of said razor and work back up to normal finishing of a stone I am familiar with in terms of look (microscope) and feel then use the new stone.
If you are just going to a new stone from a previously used razor you are simply refreshing and perhaps not seeing the true value of the new stone.
To kill an edge by dragging the edge on a glass or stone is never necessary and a waste of steel.
As bleusman 7 and Alum of Potash has said, cleaning the razor up would be the prudent thing to do.
 
So would bbw with slurry be a reasonable back step to mimic rehoning With out over doing it? Sounds like a couple steps back to reach a true finish of the " new " stone.
 
If I want to see what a new stone is all about, I set the bevel fresh and work up to it with a known progression that I can rely on as being fairly consistent. Different razors hone differently, so that has to be factored in, I have a few razors that I use for just work though.
I perceive a noted difference between a Coti/Escher edge and a synth/escher edge and an edge that was shaved on for a while and then dressed up on an Escher.
There's a lot more to it than just that, but that's enough for me to just re-bevel and start fresh.

I don't kill the edge like some of the circus-act guys do though, no 'killing on glass' here - I just hone on the bevel-setter until the steel is fresh and the bevel is as true as I can make it.
 
I don't kill the edge like some of the circus-act guys do though, no 'killing on glass' here - I just hone on the bevel-setter until the steel is fresh and the bevel is as true as I can make it.

Are there any circumstances when you would kill the edge?
 
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