Key to creamy lather?

[DG109]

I think I know the answer to this, but in my experience, advice, especially that shared on B and B, is always helpful.

After over a decade of lathering, I’ve realised my lather is too airy. It looks like the head of lather thread and others on here. Crawling up and over the sides of the lather bowl. Previously I took this as a sign of success.

I’m seeking to master the ability to produce yoghurty, creamy lather.

I believe the answer lies in 1) more product, 2) less water 3) more gentle brush action (for bowl lathering)

I want to know if this is correct because I’ve been playing around with these three variables, practice lathering for a couple of weeks, and rarely nail it.

 

[silverlifter]

What soap(s) are you using?

 

[brucered]

You are correct.

More soap. More soap. More soap.

Add water SLOWLY if it's too airy And doesn't have the glossy sheen you want.

This is how much soap I load my brush with.

 

[Ron R]

I think I know the answer to this, but in my experience, advice, especially that shared on B and B, is always helpful.

After over a decade of lathering, I’ve realised my lather is too airy. It looks like the head of lather thread and others on here. Crawling up and over the sides of the lather bowl. Previously I took this as a sign of success.

I’m seeking to master the ability to produce yoghurty, creamy lather.

I believe the answer lies in 1) more product, 2) less water 3) more gentle brush action (for bowl lathering)

I want to know if this is correct because I’ve been playing around with these three variables, practice lathering for a couple of weeks, and rarely nail it.

You have zeroed in correctly IMO, time to test. To much water will give you airy bubbly lather with most of my soaps has been my conclusion.
Some soaps are very easy to lather and others are a bit of challenge but they can be conquered with patience is the best way to describe it. All what I do is smear or press soap in bottom of bowl squeeze out excess water from brush so its damp and start swirling with little pressure so not introduce air into the lather until the soap is slightly pasty.
Then add some water with a mister or by hand droplets to and start swirling again in both directions, add some more water until your happy with the lather appearance only, apply to wet face and your off shaving under 1.5- 2 minutes usually for myself. Lather should never really be to dry and also not overly hydrated but I would want to be on the hydrated side for slickness protection.
You will know very quickly what is good for your shave and just enjoy it. Keep it simple shaving(K.I.S.S) as possible is all I can suggest.
There is one person Tony Esposito (The Stallion) always mentions load brush like you hate it is his advice.

 

[ralph029]

May I suggest something? This is a often overlooked part of creating lather. Try using distilled water for a control. Your municipal water may require that you find a different soap. The "load it like you hate it" is sound advise. You need lots of soap on a brush to build a moderate amount that will eventually transfer to your face. I have been making soaps for several years and I can tell you, your water has a huge impact on any soaps performance.

 

[DG109]

Thanks, gents. So vigorous loading is ok, but tone down the exuberance when lathering in the bowl?

Deffo been too liberal with the water. Taken to heed too literally the ‘thirsty soap’ comments I’ve seen over the years.

What soap(s) are you using?

Many. I’ve put MWF back in the cupboard as that was the worst offender.

I get the closest to my new goal with cella smeared in the bottom of my scuttle. Silver medal was using Vitos red. Bronze Arko.

Then a load of runners up from tabac to DRH, SV etc.

Creams I’m getting the desired results with. Croaps a bit worse and triple milled way off. I’m focusing my efforts on the croaps for now. Once I’ve mastered them I’ll use triple milled again. If I’m in a rush I’ll face lather sticks or use cream as they normally work out ok.

 

[DG109]

May I suggest something? This is an often overlooked part of creating lather. Try using distilled water for a control. Your municipal water may require that you find a different soap. The "load it like you hate it" is sound advise. You need lots of soap on a brush to build a moderate amount that will eventually transfer to your face. I have been making soaps for several years and I can tell you, your water has a huge impact on any soaps performance.

Possibly, but I had my water hardness analysed on an unrelated topic and it’s extremely soft. I also would like to adapt to my water rather than be dependant on another ingredient.

 

[silverlifter]

hen a load of runners up from tabac to DRH, SV etc.

Both of these are excellent soaps. As others have said, more soap at the outset then gradually add water in small amounts until you have the desired consistency. In the experimentation phases, I'd err towards the runny rather than airy. A runny slick lather will still deliver a good shave, which you want as you continue to dial in your lather.

I'd also try face lathering. It's a much simpler approach and removes aother variable.

Good luck!

 

[ralph029]

Possibly, but I had my water hardness analysed on an unrelated topic and it’s extremely soft. I also would like to adapt to my water rather than be dependant on another ingredient.

I feel the same way. It took me a long time of fiddling with my recipe to find a soap that worked with my extremely hard water. I have found a soap maker that makes a soap very similar to mine and it works wonderfully. I think if you try the distilled water to see how it reacts, you can then find others who have similar water as yours and see what soaps work well for them.
Since you seemed to have problems with MWF, you might want to steer away from tallow based soaps with your water. You might try a soap that has a base of Steric Acid or Lard. I would also look for soaps that have Castor Oil in them. Castor Oil boosts lather by making a soap more easily dissolved in water. There are other additives that are used in soap making but they all target specific issues. Sodium Lactate is one of those that helps boosts and stabilize later. Stearic acid is a fat derived from plants and animals.

 

[Ckmaui]

Have insane hard water but do not want to mess with anything other than what comes out the tap

that said brush squeezed out in the soap till its nice and full then in a bowl whip that around for 15 sec or so then a few drops blend up again for 15-20 sec but I do it more gentle and slow than super fast to keep it like a cream with no air blending in
then bring in more water and slowly mix it in super shiny no air bubbles and then finish up on my face
Also when rinsing my face I just put water in my hands and dump it out then wipe my face with wet hands keeps a good slick on my face and then from the bowl lather up again

that all said I think we just need to find what works for each of us

 

[Pedigree]

The key to a creamy lather is less water, remember less is more when it comes to water. And load generously whether it be a soap or a cream.

 

[spacemonkey42]

@DG109, I was in your shoes and I posted this thread. The crew here helped me realized just what you guessed - more product, less water. I was mistaking high volume for good lather. You already have your answer, I fixed that by using MUCH more product. Now I have a much slicker and less-airy lather.

I also tried face lathering. If you don't do that, give that a shot for a few shaves at least. It really helped me understand the proportions and now I lather better regardless. Here is a great video that helped me.

You've got this, have fun and enjoy a much slicker, creamier lather!

 

[ralph029]

Possibly, but I had my water hardness analysed on an unrelated topic and it’s extremely soft. I also would like to adapt to my water rather than be dependant on another ingredient.

I wasn't saying to use distilled water all the time, just try it once and see how your soap responds. If it changes with everything else being equal, you might need to find a different soap that works with your water and your process.

 

[nickm]

tallow more soap (load heavy) then slowly add water

 

[DG109]

I wasn't saying to use distilled water all the time, just try it once and see how your soap responds. If it changes with everything else being equal, you might need to find a different soap that works with your water and your process.

Thanks for clarifying. That makes sense.

I’m doing practice lathers most nights. If I don’t see progress I’ll give this a go.

 

[nickm]

Shape of vessel also makes a big difference. I don’t know how people get started with a 3” bowl. I’ll give a photo. If you truly are struggling with lather use a bigger brush and almost every boar should satisfy your need for lathering profusely.

Boil your water three to seven times and let it sit in a large tank in a 2L bottle. For mountain people who need help with water issues. Dance under a full moon.. Add baking soda, baking powder or lemon juice to change pH and put minerals in… say incantations of fairies.. bake blueberry muffins. If I were having issues a jug of spring water at the CVS or grocery store would usually fix it.

That is Dove Men’s care and yes it lathers like a champ. Maybe try an easier soap.

 

[DG109]

Shape of vessel also makes a big difference. I don’t know how people get started with a 3” bowl. I’ll give a photo. If you truly are struggling with lather use a bigger brush and almost every boar should satisfy your need for lathering profusely.

Boil your water three to seven times and let it sit in a large tank in a 2L bottle. For mountain people who need help with water issues. Dance under a full moon.. Add baking soda, baking powder or lemon juice to change pH and put minerals in… say incantations of fairies.. bake blueberry muffins. If I were having issues a jug of spring water at the CVS or grocery store would usually fix it.

That is Dove Men’s care and yes it lathers like a champ. Maybe try an easier soap.

What’s the measuring vessel used for?

 

[nickm]

I am in control of how much volume I have. 100mL or 1000mL. Kind of like the small CELLA and year supply of CELLA.

Creamy lather for me is about LOAD, though some of those dense knots need surface area to get the bowl lather started.

18mm brush and 100mL is about 3” bowl
22mm - 28mm brush and 1000mL is about 6-7”

When you can VISUALLY SEE the amount of water you are adding I feel it can be the difference between:

1. Light fluffy lather with too light of a load (Pears soap does this for me if it is not enough of a load in the brush)

2. Heavy brush load though nothing in the bowl. Result is a pasty thick brush by the 2nd or 3rd lather. Not consistent all the way through the shave.

3. Bubbly lather with big air bubbles

4. The slick lathers that are mostly water and air though not enough soap

5. The “Italian lather” with enough to shave 40 men all in one sitting. Effective though not efficient. Where newbies should start

6. The Williams effect where there is no face lather simply needs more load time and a larger brush to gather more suds

7. The pasty white face lather. Heavy load from the brush, almost no water and impossible to remove without a wash cloth. Often burns the skin because soap is too concentrated.

The bowls help you to identify consistently building the perfect “creamy” lather you are in search for.

You could also lather directly on a plate. And that would aid in maximizing surface area to see the shave come alive.

Another thing is the brush. Dense knots can really hold onto the lather. My pure brush barely holds onto soap. My Zenith boar can hold onto enough for 5 passes.

You need water to get in and go to work with the soap. I’ve heard of people using Pipettes to measure things. Boar has like 3-5x more bristles.

As for metal, it does not dent. And it does not break.

 

[Lane101]

Shape of vessel also makes a big difference. I don’t know how people get started with a 3” bowl. I’ll give a photo. If you truly are struggling with lather use a bigger brush and almost every boar should satisfy your need for lathering profusely.

Boil your water three to seven times and let it sit in a large tank in a 2L bottle. For mountain people who need help with water issues. Dance under a full moon.. Add baking soda, baking powder or lemon juice to change pH and put minerals in… say incantations of fairies.. bake blueberry muffins. If I were having issues a jug of spring water at the CVS or grocery store would usually fix it.

That is Dove Men’s care and yes it lathers like a champ. Maybe try an easier soap.

Hi Nickm,

Guessing that your second paragraph is intended to be humorous. Effective lathering container size is also dependent on the process. A 3" bowl works well if used primarily for loading for those who face or bowl lather. I've a couple of these and can build excellent lather by loading/developing proto lather on the puck for about 40 seconds to a minute and then proceeding to face lather. Use a couple deeper apothecary mugs for my hardest soaps to provide the vertical space for additional on-puck loading and lather development before completing the process via face lathering.

Dove Men+ Care does lather very well. Many of us, myself included, use it as a super lathering ingredient in our custom blends. Around 15% of the blend by weight makes a big difference in lathering ease and quality. Used by itself the lather is almost too thick (see posts by @Big Jim who experimented with Dove) and while it provides good slickness it is still not as slick as many of my other shaving soaps and blends that are mostly made of shaving soaps.

I've many prior posts on my various blend experiments. My best blend to date consists of 2 Williams pucks (can use Arko as a substitute), 2 Van Der Hagen Deluxe pucks, 2 oz. Arko, 2 oz. Dove Men+ Care, 2 oz. Ivory and one ounce of Proraso Red croap. Makes five 3 oz. pucks of shaving soap.

Good luck on your shaving journey and the many new soaps you've recently acquired.

 

[Steve56]

Creamy lather? Look for coconut oil in the ingredient list.