Ketogenic Living and Intermittent Fasting

[firstsafety]

I searched and saw a few posts on this topic, but I did not see them run full circle. I am a proponent of ketogenic living and intermittent fasting although I hate calling it fasting. If anyone is trying keto or is keto, please check in and share your story. I can help those who want to try, but are having or have had issues. To kick this off, here is my view:

Funny thing is that Americans eat less meat and fewer eggs than at any other time in our countries history. We are following the food pyramid and eating more fruits and veggies than ever. So why are we more sick and overweight than ever? Why are we taking more prescriptions to lower cholesterol yet, heart disease is still killing us more than ever? Could it be that the doctors and guidelines are wrong? I mean Pfizer made $130,000,000,000.00 off of Lipitor alone, could they be motivated by something other than making us healthier? No of course not, fruits and veggies must be healthier, right? Why is is so hard to see what is right in front of our eyes? There is something very wrong with our health, with the health of anyone and everyone around the world following a "western" diet. What's worse is it is spreading...

The best way to be healthy is a diet like our ancestors ate, high in meat and animal fat. Everything else slowly kills us. Look at the disease statistics. Try two weeks on meat and eggs only and see if you do not feel healthier than ever.

Fruits and veggies are healthy, eat a balanced diet, follow the food pyramid, high cholesterol is a marker for heart disease, and so many more things coming from the government and doctors are all lies. Get rid of the sugar and eat meat if you want to be healthy.

 

[Lightcs1776]

My wife and I are on a Keto nutritional diet. It is not a diet in terms of a temporary weight loss program but an eating lifestyle. I have lost weight, but better than that, I have gained energy. It has been a good change for us.

 

[firstsafety]

So glad to hear that. My wife and I are the same way, we work together. It is hard to do anything alone, but when our friends see what we eat, they immediately think we are going to die of heart disease. Only time will tell, but I am certain that carbs and Lipitor are not the answer...

 

[Merle]

reminds one of the stories people relate just so: Ever wonder why so many doctors, nurses, and others in the health professions smoke? They know, and they're not looking forward to the way nature takes it's course if it's not quick and surprising.
I'm not saying one thing either way. But I know I'm a perfect example of the impact refined sugar has had on the population of the world since the first days it was refined in the Caribbean and brought to the shores of Europe.

 

[BMWRider]

My wife and I are a mix of paleo, primal (some cheese and my wife wants her yogurt), and keto. Right now we are keto, since I have about another 10 lbs to shed (I cheat a bit over Thanksgiving/Christmas and pay for it in the first quarter of each year), I will then move back towards paleo when I have knocked those off. I have lived this way for 10 years and have done very well. I am 56 years old and take no drugs at all. My blood panels are great, my doctor is thrilled with my health. I do have a 2.5 cm gallstone, but that is a hereditary ailment that plagues the paternal line in my family. It has never bothered me, my doctor has encouraged me to take bile salts from time to time.

As for fasting, I need to start doing it again. I know of its benefits and have no excuse.

 

[firstsafety]

My wife and I are a mix of paleo, primal (some cheese and my wife wants her yogurt), and keto. Right now we are keto, since I have about another 10 lbs to shed (I cheat a bit over Thanksgiving/Christmas and pay for it in the first quarter of each year), I will then move back towards paleo when I have knocked those off. I have lived this way for 10 years and have done very well. I am 56 years old and take no drugs at all. My blood panels are great, my doctor is thrilled with my health. I do have a 2.5 cm gallstone, but that is a hereditary ailment that plagues the paternal line in my family. It has never bothered me, my doctor has encouraged me to take bile salts from time to time.

As for fasting, I need to start doing it again. I know of its benefits and have no excuse.

Why do you move between Paleo, Primal, and Keto? Do you prefer Paleo? Have you had any luck with natural remedies for gallstones? I have never seen any research that definitively shows links to disease via heredity. It is one of the common things you hear doctors say, yet there is no research to support it. If you cannot find credible research to show gallstones passed down, then maybe there is another cause. The main thing we pass down to our children is culture of which food is a major aspect. Food is the main cause of chronic illness.

 

[BMWRider]

Why do you move between Paleo, Primal, and Keto? Do you prefer Paleo?

Prefer is an interesting word. While I agree with your premises regarding the SAD, and that it is not ideal for humans, I also believe that there are benefits to things like blackberries, some tubers (yams, cassava, and sweet potato come to mind), and other vegetables that are not keto friendly. Having said that, if you define keto as <50 carbs a day, then I am keto almost all of the time. If you define it as <20 carbs, I am paleo most of the time.

Have you had any luck with natural remedies for gallstones?

My doctor is very in tune with my natural approaches to health, thus her recommendation to use bile salt supplements on an irregular basis to treat them.

I have never seen any research that definitively shows links to disease via heredity. It is one of the common things you hear doctors say, yet there is no research to support it. If you cannot find credible research to show gallstones passed down, then maybe there is another cause. The main thing we pass down to our children is culture of which food is a major aspect. Food is the main cause of chronic illness.

Technically you are correct, gallstones themselves are not hereditary, but there are inherited metabolic traits that lead to oversaturation of bile, which in turn leads to gallstones. There are at least three generations of men in my family who have suffered from gallstones, including my grandfather who died long before the implementation of the SAD. Having said that, I have been paleo for over 10 years, if it is a diet issue, it should have reversed itself.

 

[firstsafety]

Prefer is an interesting word. While I agree with your premises regarding the SAD, and that it is not ideal for humans, I also believe that there are benefits to things like blackberries, some tubers (yams, cassava, and sweet potato come to mind), and other vegetables that are not keto friendly. Having said that, if you define keto as <50 carbs a day, then I am keto almost all of the time. If you define it as <20 carbs, I am paleo most of the time.



My doctor is very in tune with my natural approaches to health, thus her recommendation to use bile salt supplements on an irregular basis to treat them.



Technically you are correct, gallstones themselves are not hereditary, but there are inherited metabolic traits that lead to oversaturation of bile, which in turn leads to gallstones. There are at least three generations of men in my family who have suffered from gallstones, including my grandfather who died long before the implementation of the SAD. Having said that, I have been paleo for over 10 years, if it is a diet issue, it should have reversed itself.

I would still search for a dietary link, not something to remove, but something to add. Do you eat a lot of fat? I would like to read the science on those inherited traits. I will try and find it online, if you have any suggestions, please let me know.

 

[BMWRider]

I would still search for a dietary link, not something to remove, but something to add. Do you eat a lot of fat? I would like to read the science on those inherited traits. I will try and find it online, if you have any suggestions, please let me know.

I usually end up around 10-20% carbs, 55-70% fat, 15-25% protein. Lately I have been very keto (<20g carb) so my fat is much higher. I had not thought of adding something to my diet. The addition of bile salts (I use bovine bile salts) does help to dissolve them over time, my hope is it works for me.

As for references, my doctor and I discussed several of them and I later followed up with my own research. There was a University of Bonn study in 2008 that made the connection. Additionally, several studies of American Indian populations (I am a first generation American of German descent, so this is not my genetic marker) have indicated a genetic link. Henning Wittenberg has also done research in this area. I did a bunch of research when the stone showed on my back x-ray.

 

[firstsafety]

I usually end up around 10-20% carbs, 55-70% fat, 15-25% protein. Lately I have been very keto (<20g carb) so my fat is much higher. I had not thought of adding something to my diet. The addition of bile salts (I use bovine bile salts) does help to dissolve them over time, my hope is it works for me.

As for references, my doctor and I discussed several of them and I later followed up with my own research. There was a University of Bonn study in 2008 that made the connection. Additionally, several studies of American Indian populations (I am a first generation American of German descent, so this is not my genetic marker) have indicated a genetic link. Henning Wittenberg has also done research in this area. I did a bunch of research when the stone showed on my back x-ray.

I am appreciative of all that detail. It gives me a lot to consider and research. I believe that ketosis is our natural state and that as long as we are in it, our bodies will heal best. I just eat fat and meat though, no carbs on a regular basis, because they always seem to cause minor issues. I think that as long as you stay proactive and make sure you are in ketosis with a high fat intake, your body will heal because you are listening to it. There are many natural remedies, there is Chinese medicine, and there is exercise, especially inversions. I would gradually try them all, especially if you have the help of a natural doctor, acupuncturist, or naturopath.

 

[mauser44]

I have been on KETO for almost a year at this point. I started not because of weight (I'm 5.4, 120lbs @ 43 yrs) but because I was suffering from constant stomach pains, and suspected grains. When I first started, I lost 5 lbs (mostly water), and within a week or so, had the bump in energy, mental clarity and NO STOMACH PAINS.

I am usually hovering at less than 20 net carbs a day, and my sweet spot is approx 2200 calories with 70% or so in fats. I know the calories number may sound high, but that is where I have plenty energy and no weight gain.
I do IF eat least 5-6 days a week, but if I work out and am hungry, I feed on sardines (to my wife's dismay).
I eat an average of 5 eggs for breakfast with bacon and avocado for breakfast, with a bullet proof coffee.
Lunch is some greens, 4-6 ounces of protein based food, and around 1 1/2 ounce of nuts.

Every once in a while I do a 24hrs + fast, and am planning on doing a 48 at some point in the near future. I feel the fast is a good way to clean up after a weekend away from home where I eat out for multiple meals or if I had a very heavy dinner out.

I sneak in carbs when I start feeling depleted once every 2-3 months(sleep quality goes down and joints hurt), but figured that rice and beans are the best way to go about it; I don't get stomach aches and don't feel like I get kicked out of keto for more than a day or so (slow carbs). When I first started, I carbed up on grains carbs and it made for a few bad days.

At this point I am refining my fat sources, adding homemade mayo, olive oil etc on lower fat protein vs. eating fat heaving cuts; better control of how much and quality of protein I eat.

My wife joined me on the lifestyle about 4 months ago after much resistance because "she was a distance runner and did not know how she can run without carbs". Since she has lost almost 40lbs, and is running half marathons and the such with some salt pills, and fat bombs (sold in packets if anyone is interested. they taste pretty good).
She is now a great advocate, especially that her friends who do Jenny Craig and all those restrictive diets "hate" her for losing all that weight.

We adopted a grain free-ish diet for my son who has ADD and was also diagnosed with asperger (autism light - diagnosed by a doctor and not webMD). He is 10 so we are not limiting carbs as much as the clinical keto, but have removed grains, and the majority of his carbs are from vegetables and nuts. His breakfasts are protein only. His behavior is noticeably better \ calmer since we switched him, and he is suffering less of stomach issues (comes with the territory according to his Dr.) and putting on some weight. We especially notice the difference when he does end up with grain carbs every once in a while or eats pizza at a party.

Keto has been the best lifestyle change I made over the years and I have tried all the bro-science diets that were presented for energy and better health. I know it is not for everyone, but it works great for me and my family, and my 65 year old neighbor and his wife; both lost weight and went off meds.

For a fun read from a Dr. who is keto\carnivor, and the medical community who is fighting the KETO FAD, read Lies your doctor told you.

Sorry for the long post. I think I am done.

 

[TheVez2]

@firstsafety I'm curious what your recommended approach to keto is. I've been eating keto for almost a year. When I first started the group I found were very structured, and you had to calculate your macros and follow them to a tee. I did at the beginning, and did lose weight (about 30 pounds). But all the calculating and weighing out of food became a pain to me, and I went to lazy keto. I know from what I was cooking before, what looks to be decent portion, and I definitely steer clear of all sugars & carbs. But I'm not sure if I'm on the right track. I haven't lost anymore weight, but I know my body is still changing.

But lately, I've been wondering if I should get back into the whole macro thing. Or is there some good in between, or an easier way for doing it? I definitely have some more weight to lose, so I'd like to change something.

Also, what do you think about the amount of protein you intake? From what I read within the group, you need to limit your protein intake, because if you have too much in your diet, your body will convert excess protein into carbs.

When I first started Keto, I could skip meals and I seemed to never be hungry. I thought IF was something I could easily do. Now that I'm adapted and used to it, it seems like I'm hungry all the time. I can't skip a meal without feeling like I'm starving. Doesn't seem like that should be the case.

Looking for any tips that might help me. Thanks.

 

[Tester28]

My Keto journey since 2017 August has been good.
I keep my carbs to within 20gms a day and don't eat more than one full meal a day.

Im a bit scared of eating huge amounts of fat though. I use good fat as I normally
would...olive oil, Goose fat, butter, ghee, full fat cream for coffee. But I don't
put butter in coffee etc.

My theory has been to keep the fats a little on the low side so the body consumes some of my own
first. Ive dropped at least 3 sizes in both shirts and trousers. About 28 kg.

The biggest hurdle has been getting a good sugar substitute....I use organic erythritol mixed
with monk fruit powder.

My favourite dessert is a chocolate cake made famous by nigella lawson. I use almond flour instead of
regular flour and swerve to sweeten it. It's awesome.

Chocolate Olive Oil Cake

 

[mauser44]

@firstsafety I'm curious what your recommended approach to keto is. I've been eating keto for almost a year. When I first started the group I found were very structured, and you had to calculate your macros and follow them to a tee. I did at the beginning, and did lose weight (about 30 pounds). But all the calculating and weighing out of food became a pain to me, and I went to lazy keto. I know from what I was cooking before, what looks to be decent portion, and I definitely steer clear of all sugars & carbs. But I'm not sure if I'm on the right track. I haven't lost anymore weight, but I know my body is still changing.

But lately, I've been wondering if I should get back into the whole macro thing. Or is there some good in between, or an easier way for doing it? I definitely have some more weight to lose, so I'd like to change something.

Also, what do you think about the amount of protein you intake? From what I read within the group, you need to limit your protein intake, because if you have too much in your diet, your body will convert excess protein into carbs.

When I first started Keto, I could skip meals and I seemed to never be hungry. I thought IF was something I could easily do. Now that I'm adapted and used to it, it seems like I'm hungry all the time. I can't skip a meal without feeling like I'm starving. Doesn't seem like that should be the case.

Looking for any tips that might help me. Thanks.

Here is my take on it.

CLINICAL keto is very strict, especially if one suffers from diabetes or seizures. I am sure the macro is in 60-70% fat, with less than 20 grams net carbs. if you are doing Keto as a lifestyle and weight loss, listen to your body; you can still be in keto at 20-30 net grams depending on insulin sensitivity and level of activity. caloric deficit is needed for weight loss even on KETO, but will backfire and slow your metabolism if done at an extreme level.

before you make too many dietary changes, try and change WHEN you eat if you can: if you eat everyday at 7am and noon, your body will "prep" itself for the meal by sending hunger signals. A good test is if you ignore the hunger feeling, do they go away and you still have the energy to go through the day ? if so. change your eating times every couple of days and not your diet. If you are still hungry at the end day, every once is a while, add a good and small source of protein and fat. That often ends up being tuna, or sardines or even some salami for me. in a pinch I will put butter in my coffee (black coffee always).
most often a glass of water and green tea is all that is needed to get over the "hunger".
This worked for my wife.

Weight loss does plateau on KETO as your body eats itself and starts depleting your body fat. At some point, your body will want to retain the fat within your system and will seek exogenous fat (from food). If you want to break through the weight loss plateau, decrease fat consumption, but maintain \ slightly increase your protein intake to get to a caloric sustainable level (within limits since your body can convert protein to carbs, but in small amounts. incidentally your body does this conversion all the time regardless of the amount of protein in your system and I read that since you are letting your body generate the carbs, it will only generate what it NEEDS and very little more) I don't think there is a magic number for percentage and it takes trial and error. the key is to keep the carbs low.

If you think about it, our caloric intake does not run on a 24 hour clock. If you eat 2500 calories on monday, your body does not reset to 0 calories at midnight. Think of what you eat over a course of a week; your body may need more calories one day, and less another. If you are hungry, eat a little more (50-100 calories). if you are not hungry, don't eat all the food you prepared.

as it comes to the pain of measuring all the macros
Do I measure every day all my macros? no. Do i eat "similar" foods on a daily? yes . do I keep track of my carbs? absolutely.
I "normalized" my foods so i don't HAVE to measure every day; 5 eggs + bacon + avocado + 1 1/2 once nuts + 8 olives + approx 1/2 tbs gee and approx 1 tbs organic butter. Add approx 6-8 grams of protein and I am within range of my caloric numbers. I also eat 2-3 handful of salad greens, but the net carbs is low. so the handful is my measurement.I'll admit that I don't eat green everyday, some my carb numbers could be in the low teens on some days.
I used to plug the above every day, but now I know where the above will put me. If I eat something different or decide to change it up especially with vegetables, I will plug in all my number on an app called carb manager to make sure I am not kicking myself out of keto.
Sounds boring, but for my weekday it works perfectly as I work 7-5 and it is easy to pre-pack and stay on track

 

[TheVez2]

caloric deficit is needed for weight loss even on KETO,

See, this is something I have been trying to wrap my head around. Because according to that group, your statement is false. They claim that if you are at a caloric deficit on keto, you can stifle your fat loss. They claim you need to eat to at least your TDEE and preferably higher in order to lose weight. They say fat loss is more about the insulin "process" and not calories. (sorry I don't understand what they are talking about, so I may not be saying that right.)

 

[mauser44]

let me rephrase my statement.
The fact that Keto does not spike insulin or has very minimal insulin spikes coupled with the fact that fat provides more satiety, you WILL end up eating less and losing weight. Fat and proteins are processed differently in the body versus sugar and calories from the latter are different from the first two.
But at the end of the day, if your body needs let's say 2100 calories to function based on your current activity levels, and you are eating 2100 calories within the keto macro, your body will consume the fat in your diet for energy vs. the fat in your body. To lose the weigh once your are Keto adapted, slightly reduce your FAT consumption and your body will burn your body fat instead of what you are eating. There are no formulas on how many calories a person would need, and that is where dialing in your diet comes in, in small increments.

Keto is not a caloric restrictive diet in the traditional sense; if you only consume 1400 calories a day, you will initially lose weight. then your metabolism will crash, and even at 1400-1500 will start gaining weight again. Think of the BIGGEST LOSER show and how many put the weight back on.

I could be wrong, and my wife tells me that often.

 

[JimP]

Been Keto for almost two years.

Initially did it for blood pressure ( I refused to go on medication). Feel great. Between 11% and 12.5% body fat. Weight stays a stable 176-178. Blood numbers have been great up until this last set. I think I strayed a bit from Keto and was just "low carb." Going strict again and will pull blood numbers in another two months and let ya'll know.

Won't change at this point as - like someone said previously - it's a way of life NOT a diet.

 

[mauser44]

Been Keto for almost two years.

Initially did it for blood pressure ( I refused to go on medication). Feel great. Between 11% and 12.5% body fat. Weight stays a stable 176-178. Blood numbers have been great up until this last set. I think I strayed a bit from Keto and was just "low carb." Going strict again and will pull blood numbers in another two months and let ya'll know.

Won't change at this point as - like someone said previously - it's a way of life NOT a diet.

congrats on your success and staying off the pharma wagon

 

[firstsafety]

I have been on KETO for almost a year at this point. I started not because of weight (I'm 5.4, 120lbs @ 43 yrs) but because I was suffering from constant stomach pains, and suspected grains. When I first started, I lost 5 lbs (mostly water), and within a week or so, had the bump in energy, mental clarity and NO STOMACH PAINS.

I am usually hovering at less than 20 net carbs a day, and my sweet spot is approx 2200 calories with 70% or so in fats. I know the calories number may sound high, but that is where I have plenty energy and no weight gain.
I do IF eat least 5-6 days a week, but if I work out and am hungry, I feed on sardines (to my wife's dismay).
I eat an average of 5 eggs for breakfast with bacon and avocado for breakfast, with a bullet proof coffee.
Lunch is some greens, 4-6 ounces of protein based food, and around 1 1/2 ounce of nuts.

Every once in a while I do a 24hrs + fast, and am planning on doing a 48 at some point in the near future. I feel the fast is a good way to clean up after a weekend away from home where I eat out for multiple meals or if I had a very heavy dinner out.

I sneak in carbs when I start feeling depleted once every 2-3 months(sleep quality goes down and joints hurt), but figured that rice and beans are the best way to go about it; I don't get stomach aches and don't feel like I get kicked out of keto for more than a day or so (slow carbs). When I first started, I carbed up on grains carbs and it made for a few bad days.

At this point I am refining my fat sources, adding homemade mayo, olive oil etc on lower fat protein vs. eating fat heaving cuts; better control of how much and quality of protein I eat.

My wife joined me on the lifestyle about 4 months ago after much resistance because "she was a distance runner and did not know how she can run without carbs". Since she has lost almost 40lbs, and is running half marathons and the such with some salt pills, and fat bombs (sold in packets if anyone is interested. they taste pretty good).
She is now a great advocate, especially that her friends who do Jenny Craig and all those restrictive diets "hate" her for losing all that weight.

We adopted a grain free-ish diet for my son who has ADD and was also diagnosed with asperger (autism light - diagnosed by a doctor and not webMD). He is 10 so we are not limiting carbs as much as the clinical keto, but have removed grains, and the majority of his carbs are from vegetables and nuts. His breakfasts are protein only. His behavior is noticeably better \ calmer since we switched him, and he is suffering less of stomach issues (comes with the territory according to his Dr.) and putting on some weight. We especially notice the difference when he does end up with grain carbs every once in a while or eats pizza at a party.

Keto has been the best lifestyle change I made over the years and I have tried all the bro-science diets that were presented for energy and better health. I know it is not for everyone, but it works great for me and my family, and my 65 year old neighbor and his wife; both lost weight and went off meds.

For a fun read from a Dr. who is keto\carnivor, and the medical community who is fighting the KETO FAD, read Lies your doctor told you.

Sorry for the long post. I think I am done.

Such a great post.

 

[firstsafety]

@firstsafety I'm curious what your recommended approach to keto is. I've been eating keto for almost a year. When I first started the group I found were very structured, and you had to calculate your macros and follow them to a tee. I did at the beginning, and did lose weight (about 30 pounds). But all the calculating and weighing out of food became a pain to me, and I went to lazy keto. I know from what I was cooking before, what looks to be decent portion, and I definitely steer clear of all sugars & carbs. But I'm not sure if I'm on the right track. I haven't lost anymore weight, but I know my body is still changing.

But lately, I've been wondering if I should get back into the whole macro thing. Or is there some good in between, or an easier way for doing it? I definitely have some more weight to lose, so I'd like to change something.

Also, what do you think about the amount of protein you intake? From what I read within the group, you need to limit your protein intake, because if you have too much in your diet, your body will convert excess protein into carbs.

When I first started Keto, I could skip meals and I seemed to never be hungry. I thought IF was something I could easily do. Now that I'm adapted and used to it, it seems like I'm hungry all the time. I can't skip a meal without feeling like I'm starving. Doesn't seem like that should be the case.

Looking for any tips that might help me. Thanks.

Have you read anything by Gary Taubes? You do not need to follow any complex structure. You can eat as many calories as you want, but listen to your body. Without sugar and carbs you will naturally eat the right amount. If that is not happening for you and you are feeling hungry then your something else in your nutrition is off. PM me, I can help you with a little more detail.