Keep it Simple and Smooth - The Chemistry, Physics, and Science Behind Shaving

[vitaman]

Interesting thread!

I've been going with a routine advocated in a 50's vintage science article on shaving. To summarize:

Hot water wash with soap.
Rinse
Repeat the hot water wash, rinse OR leave the soap on face if it's not irritating.
Lather up.
Wait two minutes for the lather to do it's thing
Shave away.

Any of you fifty pound Razorbrain chemical whangdoodlers see big holes in this?

If I read some of the post above sorta correctly, the Alky-lides in the soap are breaking the H-bonds, and the hot water might be flushing out them pesky and crunchy Saltine bonds, too.

The Steering Acids and other magic stuff in my Lather needs time to work on my now De-Bonded beard, so the two minutes I let it set while I brush my fangs lets the Lather blot inside my facial hairs, changing the Steering acid to Blotter acid.

Shaving then cuts off the now De-Bonded, acid softened, heated and hydrated hairs by moving a really sharp thing through them whiskers.

Is that right?

what he said!

 

[GoldenMonkey]

I've found that a mixture of battery acid, thermite, vinegar, borax, and cask strength bourbon, applied with Richard Pryor's flaming crack pipe does wonders for removing the hair from my face...of course, as with all things B&B, your mileage may vary...

 

[fatpanda]

It was definately useful! Espeically about the blade angle. I never understood why you can't just use a straight with the entire blade surface touching your face. I have heard that 30 degrees works well for most. When I start straight shaving I will pay careful attention to the blade angle!

Thanks!

I will give you a quick answer. First, I do not use a straight on myself anymore than I would try and cut my own hair. Also, the prep time involved is WAY too much, IMHO. I really don't have the time to devote to it but if someone is paying me for it, well that's a different thing entirely! However, I AM very comfortable shaving someone else with a straight and I have much more control than if I try and use a DE or SE razor. Don't know why either. I assume that the reason Barbers use a straight is more historical than anything but it is also the easiest tool for shaving another person or outlining a haircut or beard trim. The straight is a very versatile tool!

As far as stropping a straight, haven't done that since the 70's. For sanitary reasons I have been using a disposable blade razor in the salon since the early 80's as have most US barbers. They have a different feel but once you get use to them they produce a great shave. I still have some of my old straights and associated paraphernalia in storage but when you are doing client after client the disposable blade razors are much easier and faster. I have several from Germany that use half a standard DE blade that I use for both shaving and haircutting. It's all in the prep anyway. That's what takes most of the time in a Barber shave. It boils down to a lot of contact time with heat and shaving soap or creme BEFORE the shave beings to soften the beard (and provide a relaxing sensory experience for the client.) The actual shave follows a pattern not unlike 'method shaving' (I see a LOT of similarities here.)
The real key to getting a close shave with a straight is mastering the blade angle. After a while it just becomes second nature and you don't even think about it. The other key is that you want to break the face into a bunch of 'flat panels' that are easy to shave. General rule of thumb that we used to teach when I was an instructor was tha you shave down and toward the nose above the jawline and up and towards the ears below since most Barber students found the shaving charts intimidating (they are!)

Hope some of this rambling was useful to you.

 

[JdB]

I've found that a mixture of battery acid, thermite, vinegar, borax, and cask strength bourbon, applied with Richard Pryor's flaming crack pipe does wonders for removing the hair from my face...of course, as with all things B&B, your mileage may vary...

- To get rid of those nasty ingrowns you should also try to mix caustic soda with sulphuric acid - it cures about every disease known to men...

 

[OldSaw]

I have covered this before, but it bears repeating. The idea that only the lather at the point of contact with the blade edge is doing anything is not accurate.

The lather that we all crave provides a great deal of comfort, I mean it just feels good. How can you quantify that? I know it is very subjective, but most of us around here would agree that the lather and the lather process is very relaxing, refreshing and comforting. I love a thick blanket of warm creamy lather on my face and don't forget the whole brush thing.

In addition to the fact that it just plain feels good, it is full of air in the form of very tiny bubbles. This aerated lather creates an insulative barrier that holds in body heat and reduces evaporation of the water that is necessary to aid in all those other scientific things that are going on at the atomic level.

Even if a slurry (as I don't believe that the ratios given would create a paste) of baking soda, water and oil was chemically or even practically just as effective as my soaps and creams, I still wouldn't use it by choice. It just doesn't sound very satisfying.

As far as the prep goes, 5 minutes is a long time. I usually do my hot towel in about two minutes. I would imagine that 5 minutes under a hot towel with nothing more than water would yield greatly improved results over no or little prep.

I enjoy the process, I enjoy my shaves and I enjoy the results. The science behind it is intriguing, but it can't replace the ritual.

 

[Todd G]

Don't know much about chemistry, but I subsituted the baking soda mixture for the Proraso pre-shave that I normally use and found it to work better. I simply applied it, let it sit for a few minutes, rinsed it off and then lathered up. I've been doing it for four days and have yet to have any irritation at all. It's worth a try.

 

[OldSaw]

Don't know much about chemistry, but I subsituted the baking soda mixture for the Proraso pre-shave that I normally use and found it to work better. I simply applied it, let it sit for a few minutes, rinsed it off and then lathered up. I've been doing it for four days and have yet to have any irritation at all. It's worth a try.

Thanks for your input. Maybe if more people find positive results this will become a hot new trend. Perhaps as just a pre-shave I might even be persuaded to give this a try.

 

[waterbear]

Of course it works. You are putting an alkaline substance on the beard and LETTING IT SIT!
Next time lather up some soap or creme (not Proraso or any other creme that uses synthetic surfactants but a real soap based one like KMF), apply it, put a hot steam towel (just run hot water over a towel for a minute and wring it out) over it for a few minutes, wipe off the lather, reapply, and then shave.
I think you will find it works better than baking soda or just about any other preshave.
It's actually a scaled down barber shop shave.

IF you don't want to go the trouble just apply the lather and let it sit. It will soften the beard very well. Wipe it off and then reapply and then shave. It's the quick version.

 

[Todd G]

Of course it works. You are putting an alkaline substance on the beard and LETTING IT SIT!
Next time lather up some soap or creme (not Proraso or any other creme that uses synthetic surfactants but a real soap based one like KMF), apply it, put a hot steam towel (just run hot water over a towel for a minute and wring it out) over it for a few minutes, wipe off the lather, reapply, and then shave.
I think you will find it works better than baking soda or just about any other preshave.
It's actually a scaled down barber shop shave.

IF you don't want to go the trouble just apply the lather and let it sit. It will soften the beard very well. Wipe it off and then reapply and then shave. It's the quick version.

I'll give that a try. I'm already using the Pre de Provence soap and wouldn't mind using one less product. I'll post my results from that as well.

Thanks

 

[gollum83]

I have covered this before, but it bears repeating. The idea that only the lather at the point of contact with the blade edge is doing anything is not accurate.

The lather that we all crave provides a great deal of comfort, I mean it just feels good. How can you quantify that? I know it is very subjective, but most of us around here would agree that the lather and the lather process is very relaxing, refreshing and comforting. I love a thick blanket of warm creamy lather on my face and don't forget the whole brush thing.

Good point. Another one worth bring up is that cutting edge is roughly a few tenths of a micron wide, or 10^-7 meters, if memory serves me right. Single atoms are no bigger than 9 angstroms at most, or 9*10^-10 meters. Iron atoms are something like 1.5 angstroms. So we're taking about roughly a 100 fold difference. So a razor's edge is more like few hundred atoms thick.

 

[Mr_Legolas]

Great Info there, really appreciated

 

[Obsessed]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I was thinking of using something like, oh, I dunno, shaving soap. What do you guys think?

 

[kingfisher]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I was thinking of using something like, oh, I dunno, shaving soap. What do you guys think?

Brilliant!

 

[waterbear]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I was thinking of using something like, oh, I dunno, shaving soap. What do you guys think?

You might be on to something. Maybe we all should give it a try! Oh, wait, we have and it works!

 

[gollum83]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I was thinking of using something like, oh, I dunno, shaving soap. What do you guys think?

I say you're nuts! That will never work!

 

[ClubmanRob]

Shaving soap? Patently absurd. I suppose next we'll be talking about dousing our face with some sort of alcohol based fragrant lotion after shaving.

My whole gripe is that most of us who shave do so in a way that is derived from centuries of tradition and knowledge of those that did it before. Now with the advent of the internet we have regular occurrences of people that show up long enough to tell us everything that we know and do is wrong, and then they offer us a new "better" way to do it citing questionable science as proof of theory.

Whether the argument is "O noes! Product X contains ingredient Z!" (what I like to call the "face melting" threads) or "My unfounded theories will lead you to a better shave/healthier skin" (what I call "I'm an effing doctor/scientist/soap maker who knows what's best for you" threads), don't try to bolster your argument with pseudo-scientific jargon or erroneous descriptions of chemicals or compounds. Do your research before you claim that methods/ingredients/brands are faulty and need to be avoided.

You know, I offered a while back to run a test on cartridge razors new and old to determine if there was any truth to the rumor that Gillette makes their blades "duller" once they come out with a new model in order to boost sales of their newer models. I went the whole nine yards; I procured samples of new and old cartridges of different models, broke them down, put them under a microscope, took precise measurements, diagrammed the difference in blade angle, etc. Guess what? The blades of today are much different from the blades of yesteryear. BUT, I never posted my findings because the science that determines what gives a better shave is not really science at all, it's just speculative theory open to all sorts of interpretation. Because one cartridge is angled differently could mean that (to you) this makes it dull, but to me, it could mean that it's actually a sharper blade. Since "Shaving" is not a recognized branch of science yet, I figured it would be best to not bother posting my findings due to the sorts of rumors and speculation that would do more harm than good.

Anyway, my point is that there is no scientific "secret" to getting a better shave. Science would tell us that heat is the key to a good shave since it opens up the pores and would allow the blade more access to the hair, but there's just as many men that claim to get a better shave by using cold water to shave and/or rinse between passes. In theory, this would give a horrendous shave since it tightens pores and restricts access to the hair.

What irked me is that the OP came on here with another "I'm an effing scientist" thread to teach us that what we know is wrong, but "there's a solution- my way. Why believe me? I'm an effing scientist!" This coming from a noob with twenty posts that within two weeks went from an electric Braun to a wetshaving wunderkind.

 

[Baloosh]

You know, I offered a while back to run a test on cartridge razors new and old to determine if there was any truth to the rumor that Gillette makes their blades "duller" once they come out with a new model in order to boost sales of their newer models. I went the whole nine yards; I procured samples of new and old cartridges of different models, broke them down, put them under a microscope, took precise measurements, diagrammed the difference in blade angle, etc. Guess what? The blades of today are much different from the blades of yesteryear. BUT, I never posted my findings because the science that determines what gives a better shave is not really science at all, it's just speculative theory open to all sorts of interpretation. Because one cartridge is angled differently could mean that (to you) this makes it dull, but to me, it could mean that it's actually a sharper blade. Since "Shaving" is not a recognized branch of science yet, I figured it would be best to not bother posting my findings due to the sorts of rumors and speculation that would do more harm than good.

I, for one, would be interested in your findings of those investigations... regardless of how anecdotal they might or might not be.

 

[gollum83]

What irked me is that the OP came on here with another "I'm an effing scientist" thread to teach us that what we know is wrong, but "there's a solution- my way. Why believe me? I'm an effing scientist!" This coming from a noob with twenty posts that within two weeks went from an electric Braun to a wetshaving wunderkind.

What's with the scientist hate?

As a scientist myself, I can tell you that there is indeed no magic bullet when it comes to anything really. Science only disprove things. You never prove anything in science. That is the reason why we as scientist deal with theories that more often than not come with a set number of conditions after all.

And FYI he claimed to be a chemical engineer. It's a lot like being a plumber that plays with chemicals all day long.

 

[koso]

What's with the scientist hate?

As a scientist myself

lol, no real difference from here in the layman seats between that and engineer scorn

 

[gollum83]

lol, no real difference from here in the layman seats between that and engineer scorn

Believe me, there is a difference. I should know. I graduated from an engineering school and loath engineers as well.