What I gather from you post is that the mineral oil as a preshave is worth a try but I am better off with shaving cream than I would be with the baking soda, minieral oil, water suggestion.
Dave
Keep it Simple and Smooth - The Chemistry, Physics, and Science Behind Shaving
- Thread starter Terdinus Asus
- Start date
What I gather from you post is that the mineral oil as a preshave is worth a try but I am better off with shaving cream than I would be with the baking soda, minieral oil, water suggestion.
Dave
Soap based shaving cremes are going to be very effective at softening the beard, the key is contact time. The very first permanent wave ever done was done with just soap and heat. Mineral oil is a lubricant, period. it coats the hair and skin. Fatty acid based oils such as the various vegetable oils are actually absorbed into both hair and skin and are not simply lubricating coatings but have softening effects. Comparing apples and oranges here.
Actually, prep is probably the most important part, which is why a barber shave uses the steam towels that are applied both before and after the shaving soap or cream is applied and the wait time is involved before the actual shave starts (As a licensed Barber and Cosmetologist with a chemistry background and former instructor for both vocations I do know a bit about this)
You can give the baking soda a try, it certainly will help soften the beard and mineral oil will provide lubrication but baking soda will NOT break down mineral oil into glycerin or fatty acids! That is just plain wrong chemistry.
Also, hydrogen bonding is not the only 'temporary' bond in hair protein that needs to be considered. Salt bonds are important also. Hydrogen bonds are very easy to break, plain water does that, which is what allows hairdressers to 'wet set' hair. Water breaks the bonds, drying reforms them. High pH speeds this up and helps break more bonds faster, that is all. High pH 'opens up' the cuticle layer of the hair and makes it more porous so more water can penetrate and weaken the salt and hydrogen bonds, the hair swells and softens. High pH also started degrading sulfer bonds which destabilizes the hair even more. High enough pH and the hair will literally dissolve (but so will skin) so dipilatories also use reducing agents to break these sulfer bonds.
Last edited:
This is how mineral oil is broken down into glycerin and fatty acids by baking soda, didntcha know?
My organic is pretty dang rusty, but it sounds familiar.
I'm pretty sure what I learned from reading through this post is that there is a reason my VDH Deluxe gives me such a good shave.
Now that was funny.....
eeeh... great post!
I thought this thread would be about keeping it simple.
Simple.
Seriously though, interesting thread. I especially liked the back and forth.
- Kyle's Prep - Which is more or less advocated in here.
- Lather, shave, repeat.
- Hot rinse, cold rinse, Thayers Witch Hazel.
Simple.
Seriously though, interesting thread. I especially liked the back and forth.
You really should ask for help from a chemist such as myself before posting these things. Don't want you talking about stuff that's over your head, don't you know?
Look, Terdinus. Are you serious here? NaOH? KOH? Are you trying to get people to burn holes in their faces? Do you even know what you're talking about? Look leave the formulations and such to the chemists and focus on scaling up production like a good chemical engineer. I'd hate to see anyone hurt due to your helpful advice. No hard feelings!
The voice of sanity! I quite agree! I was trying to be very diplomatic but I wasn't wearing my boots and it was really QUITE deep! If someone is going to post chemistry they should at least check to make sure they have their facts right Some of the errors could be spotted by a high school chemistry student! I guess chemical engineers don't actually learn much chemistry! Heck, any housewife could tell you that baking powder is just a mixture of baking soda and an acid like cream of tarter to make it release CO2 and any newly licensed Barber or Cosmetologist knows a lot more about hydrogen bonds in hair!
My advice is that if you want to mix mineral oil and baking soda and smear it on your face go for it but it's not going to do what is claimed (such as breaking down into glycerin and fatty acids).
BTW, has anyone besides me said the OPs username outloud? It explains a lot!
IN a word, no.
I think the person's intentions who wrote the article are good hearted. 
I have the great opportunity of working with a very intelligent professor for my advanced degree. The thing that always impresses me about my advisor is that even thought the guy is darn near famous in his field he says "I DON'T KNOW" to anything he is not 100% sure about! He says "I don't know" A LOT. To me it is better to not say anything than to say something incorrect or speculate.
+1 for the effort but I think the article contradicts its first premise. From what I understood from the introductions was that the first thing that should be remedied is the mechanical equipment and the way that the mechanical equipment is utilized. Then the article goes on about chemical interactions between shaving products and hair.
I would have preferred a more in depth article about how important it is to learn the fundamentals of using a DE or a straight to improve your shave and then as a supplement, a discourse on the proper lather and beard preparation. Thanks!
I have the great opportunity of working with a very intelligent professor for my advanced degree. The thing that always impresses me about my advisor is that even thought the guy is darn near famous in his field he says "I DON'T KNOW" to anything he is not 100% sure about! He says "I don't know" A LOT. To me it is better to not say anything than to say something incorrect or speculate.
+1 for the effort but I think the article contradicts its first premise. From what I understood from the introductions was that the first thing that should be remedied is the mechanical equipment and the way that the mechanical equipment is utilized. Then the article goes on about chemical interactions between shaving products and hair.
I would have preferred a more in depth article about how important it is to learn the fundamentals of using a DE or a straight to improve your shave and then as a supplement, a discourse on the proper lather and beard preparation. Thanks!
I would have preferred a more in depth article about how important it is to learn the fundamentals of using a DE or a straight to improve your shave and then as a supplement, a discourse on the proper lather and beard preparation. Thanks!
Ask any Barber, they can set you straight on that! Oh, wait, I AM a Barber! What exactly do you want to know about technique or prep?
Wow, how'd I miss this thread?
I'm not going to go into this too much as I see others have already began to pick it apart. I'd just like to add that the "science" displayed in the original post is faulty, and should be regarded as a joke.
Tiptoeing away quietly now...
I'm not going to go into this too much as I see others have already began to pick it apart. I'd just like to add that the "science" displayed in the original post is faulty, and should be regarded as a joke.
Tiptoeing away quietly now...
Ask any Barber, they can set you straight on that! Oh, wait, I AM a Barber! What exactly do you want to know about technique or prep?
I would like to know more details of why it is preferable for barbers to use a straight vs a DE. I am about to start straight shaving. Most importantly I want fundamental advice from experienced straight shavers. Especially Stropping! You know rules of thumb. For example don't use a 12 point wrench get a 6 point socket set or you will strip your bolts. I have heard a lot of the basics about straight shaving but have not had the chance to try it yet.
Honestly, I don't want to go off of the thread topic, perhaps straight technique will probably most appropriate in the General Straight Forum.
OldSaw
The wife's investment
Keep It Simple and Smooth!
PART I - Basic Mechanics and Chemistry
INTRODUCTION
Having read a lot of the posts in the clinic it is clear that there is no shortage of luxurious products that can be used for the simple act of sliding a blade across a surface with hair on it. This is great, if you have the money to spend on the exponentially increasing diminishing returns. But it also seems to fly in the face of the basic principles that hook men on classic shaving: a cheap, down to earth, and artistic method of shaving which gives all the control to the wielder of the blade.
Unfortunately the more expensive a product is does not necessarily mean the said product is better. And if there is a proven increase in quality it is often negligible. If there is an unproven and anecdotal improvement it will most likely be due to a placebo effect. The more one pays, the more one is likely to find themselves satisfied with the product, despite no quantifiable difference in product performance. This is the principle that allows many luxury industries in the more intangible (cosmetics, perfumes, etc.) fields to prosper despite minute improvements in quality...............
I don't need to be Bobby Flay or Emeril Lagasse to know if I am eating a bad omelette. Likewise, I don't need to be a chemical wizard to know the difference between a good shave and a bad one.
I have often said the difference between a good shave and a great shave is very minute, but that is what I am after, as well as many others here. We use the better products specifically for the marginal improvement that they provide. The products that I like best leave a microscopic layer of lubrication after the leading edge of the blade passes.
I'm not going to argue tonight, I just know what works on my face and I get BBS shaves nearly every day and I have been doing it for many years.
Interesting thread!
I've been going with a routine advocated in a 50's vintage science article on shaving. To summarize:
Hot water wash with soap.
Rinse
Repeat the hot water wash, rinse OR leave the soap on face if it's not irritating.
Lather up.
Wait two minutes for the lather to do it's thing
Shave away.
Any of you fifty pound Razorbrain chemical whangdoodlers see big holes in this?
If I read some of the post above sorta correctly, the Alky-lides in the soap are breaking the H-bonds, and the hot water might be flushing out them pesky and crunchy Saltine bonds, too.
The Steering Acids and other magic stuff in my Lather needs time to work on my now De-Bonded beard, so the two minutes I let it set while I brush my fangs lets the Lather blot inside my facial hairs, changing the Steering acid to Blotter acid.
Shaving then cuts off the now De-Bonded, acid softened, heated and hydrated hairs by moving a really sharp thing through them whiskers.
Is that right?
I've been going with a routine advocated in a 50's vintage science article on shaving. To summarize:
Hot water wash with soap.
Rinse
Repeat the hot water wash, rinse OR leave the soap on face if it's not irritating.
Lather up.
Wait two minutes for the lather to do it's thing
Shave away.
Any of you fifty pound Razorbrain chemical whangdoodlers see big holes in this?
If I read some of the post above sorta correctly, the Alky-lides in the soap are breaking the H-bonds, and the hot water might be flushing out them pesky and crunchy Saltine bonds, too.
The Steering Acids and other magic stuff in my Lather needs time to work on my now De-Bonded beard, so the two minutes I let it set while I brush my fangs lets the Lather blot inside my facial hairs, changing the Steering acid to Blotter acid.
Shaving then cuts off the now De-Bonded, acid softened, heated and hydrated hairs by moving a really sharp thing through them whiskers.
Is that right?
I will give you a quick answer. First, I do not use a straight on myself anymore than I would try and cut my own hair. Also, the prep time involved is WAY too much, IMHO. I really don't have the time to devote to it but if someone is paying me for it, well that's a different thing entirely!
However, I AM very comfortable shaving someone else with a straight and I have much more control than if I try and use a DE or SE razor. Don't know why either. I assume that the reason Barbers use a straight is more historical than anything but it is also the easiest tool for shaving another person or outlining a haircut or beard trim. The straight is a very versatile tool!As far as stropping a straight, haven't done that since the 70's. For sanitary reasons I have been using a disposable blade razor in the salon since the early 80's as have most US barbers. They have a different feel but once you get use to them they produce a great shave. I still have some of my old straights and associated paraphernalia in storage but when you are doing client after client the disposable blade razors are much easier and faster. I have several from Germany that use half a standard DE blade that I use for both shaving and haircutting. It's all in the prep anyway. That's what takes most of the time in a Barber shave. It boils down to a lot of contact time with heat and shaving soap or creme BEFORE the shave beings to soften the beard (and provide a relaxing sensory experience for the client.) The actual shave follows a pattern not unlike 'method shaving' (I see a LOT of similarities here.)
The real key to getting a close shave with a straight is mastering the blade angle. After a while it just becomes second nature and you don't even think about it. The other key is that you want to break the face into a bunch of 'flat panels' that are easy to shave. General rule of thumb that we used to teach when I was an instructor was tha you shave down and toward the nose above the jawline and up and towards the ears below since most Barber students found the shaving charts intimidating (they are!)
Hope some of this rambling was useful to you.
OldSaw
The wife's investment
Yep. But I wasn't going to say anything. Lots of users use silly names, just look at mine.
