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Karve Diem

Will you be ordering a SS Karve?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Later when the price drops

  • I’m so torn...


Results are only viewable after voting.
The wait... that's really not the issue

Very true...
There are lots of issues.. ongoing poor communication, lack of transparency (some people here went further and argued that Karve have actually been dishonest about their business model...), several broken promises over the last year or so that they will improve their communication and customer service, etc, etc, etc
Add to that what to a lot of people looks like a strange business strategy... having a big (and growing...) list of customers waiting for their SS razors, and all of a sudden he comes out with some aluminum razors... but even those aren’t ready to ship... or even not fully manufactured yet..?

But, in the end, each (potential) customer will look at all that, weigh it against the quality of the product, as well as products from other manufacturers, and make their own decision... and vote with their wallet, as mentioned above.
Some will remove themselves from the wait list or cancel their order (and I haven’t heard of any case where Karve has refused to refund the money if they’d already paid), others will go further and sell or stop using Karve razors they had already received.
And others will accept all the problems and continue to purchase Karve products and therefore support the company.
 
I can hear my mother now "spoiled rotten". We've all gotten so used to getting what we want when we want it that we complain loudly when we don't. I am unfortunately guilty of this too. The shaving world is no different, who doesn't wait for the mail everyday for our shaving stuff to finally arrive. If everything went smoothly this would be a boring hobby and none of us would have anything to post on the forums!
I've got a secondhanded Brass CB from another forum member. I plan on getting a couple of other plates in the near future. I too will be waiting for the mail semi-patiently.
 
tl;dr Had a long day's work, so sitting back with a martini. I mention this because I am mellow right now. Karve's razor, the Christopher Bradley, is excellent. And worthy of your dollars, if interested, with a very large asterisk.

That asterisk is the documented business practice of Karve using sales language suggesting that it has actual products in stock, but then never actually seeming to have those products in stock. To me, this is much more common in the artisan community (the reality, not the communications). You want this handmade product? Pay me and I'll produce it.

I daresay that if Karve would state this, people would be willing to pay and wait for the product (or, know that they don't want to wait and not buy the product) (for example, I have often stared hard at the idea of getting a shaving brush/handle from Dogwood Handcrafts... one day, my beautiful friend). Unfortunately Karve does not do this for reasons I do not understand.

One can claim this is unreasonable. One can claim this is unfair. If I can take all the facts out there and come up with what I personally believe is a reasonable, if unwanted, situation, I will do so. As far as I know, Karve has always *eventually* delivered on the products it promised (or refunded money on cancelled orders).

I don't see them as engaging in repulsive treatment. I see quality products with poor quality communication and poor distribution. Perhaps even an inability to see the problem or sufficient desire to correct it, as it appears to repeat. Perhaps Karve's shaving sales eyes are bigger than its production stomach? The shaving market will sort it out, including all of us.

I *otherwise* see a small artisan with an honorable product who is simply making mistakes. I strive to forgive mistakes. I don't have to reward mistakes though. We all make choices about how to spend our money. I know I've also had many, many delays at times in delivering products at work. I don't like it; I promise myself not to do it again. But it does happen. It results in shame. And a desire to do better. And it's a mistake. Not in the delivered product, but the timeline, and the communication about completion.

But I respect everyone's opinions on this (I know I can and have been not only wrong, but also an offender). There's no right answer for everyone. I wish shaving happiness and contentment on everyone.
That is all right on target, right down to the martini, which I hope was as cold and dry as you could hope for. A fundamental problem in many if not all businesses is contractors or suppliers who make claims about what they can deliver when it is really only what they hope they can deliver, or what they can deliver if everything works out perfectly and there is never any rain but only golden sunshine, gentle breezes and serenading song birds. Yes, it is often a major mistake for suppliers to do that and it hurts their credibility, but they do it, over and over again. The only consistent solution I have seen is to look at the track record for contractors or suppliers, ideally the specific ones you intend to use, or more generally for projects like yours, to become familiar with what the real timeline and costs will be, including predictable delays and problems.

Here, you have a still relatively new, 'artisan' supplier introducing brand new products with no track record. Maybe he is telling customers he will do what he is telling himself he can do and that is probably a bad idea. But it really doesn't matter what he says. Using suppliers like that at minimum will result in delays, and maybe worse problems than that.
 
Received an email today saying that Karve is closing its wait list for the SS on 9/30. After they fulfill all of the waiting list orders, they will "start producing for general sale."
 
Yes, thanks @DSR I did mean Brass.
Further to my reference re CG and Karve (and Wolfman). I have had a wee 'itch' for a Charcoal Goods razor.
But...no caps. I can get a Lvl 2 Copper baseplate, but I don't want Copper.
For Sept/Oct there will be....
Brass handles (limited options), Brass Top Cap, Brass Level 2 closed comb baseplates.
So, no different than Karve really. They have some bits available, some not.
Yet I don't see anyone grumping about CG or Wolfman.
I know that soon(ish) I will get an email from Karve saying "Your up next. Pay us the money".
Likewise the same with my order at Wolfman.
I did get an email from Karve today saying that the 'Wait List' for the SS is being closed at month end.
After that it's back to the normal lolly scramble!

 
However...relate this to the wait list now for a Wolfman. Anyone complaining about that?
Yes, I'm on that wait list too (sigh), and no idea how many hundreds/thousands are ahead of me.
So Karve isn't all that bad when compared to Wolfman and Charcoal Goods.
They don't have stock in hand. They put you on a wait list. They finally contact you (might take a year) about your order and ask for the money.
Seems to be a common theme. Maybe they all should just hire more staff?

Yes, thanks @DSR I did mean Brass.
Further to my reference re CG and Karve (and Wolfman). I have had a wee 'itch' for a Charcoal Goods razor.
But...no caps. I can get a Lvl 2 Copper baseplate, but I don't want Copper.
For Sept/Oct there will be....
Brass handles (limited options), Brass Top Cap, Brass Level 2 closed comb baseplates.
So, no different than Karve really. They have some bits available, some not.
Yet I don't see anyone grumping about CG or Wolfman.
I know that soon(ish) I will get an email from Karve saying "Your up next. Pay us the money".
Likewise the same with my order at Wolfman.
I did get an email from Karve today saying that the 'Wait List' for the SS is being closed at month end.
After that it's back to the normal lolly scramble!
You can try to spin the whole Karve vs Wolfman vs Charcoal Goods thing as much as you want but its an apples to oranges comparison and is meaningless!! When James or Brian give you a date for a razor you can count on it being done by that date unlike Chris that has made nothing but empty promises and broken his word time and time again because he always spins it that the product is in stock and ready to ship!!

The Wolfman waiting list is less than 2 weeks old right now and is something new that James is trying out and he has stated up front that this is a trial and sometimes trials don't work out in favor of everyone!! Brian has had regular updates on his site for the past couple years to keep his customers well informed of how long and when they will receive their product.

Karve has made promises going back to the original Brass razor that some had waited a few months for because of broken promises, vacations, and limited releases for stands, handles, and such!! Its a revolving circle and it hasn't changed since the beginning and some people like myself just can't get behind a dishonest person like Chris... but whatever you have to tell yourself to be able to sleep at night is up to you...
 
I will send them as soon as I get home from my business tri . I just set off earlier today. I should be back early Friday if that is ok.
 
No @muzichead I don't have a dog in this fight. No bone to pick with any of the makers.
I have previously ordered then bailed out from a brass Karve because of the seemingly endless holidays and delays.
I just never let it get under my skin...just moved on.
For sure Chris does indeed do himself and his company image no good.
But I went into the SS 'Wait List' with eyes wide open. I knew he wouldn't deliver when he said he would. However I also haven't had to pay any money up front, so no loss to me if he messes about for a few months.
I am also quite happy to wait for my Wolfman. Hey, I'm 72...waiting is what we oldies do.
Probably see the Wolfman before the Karve though.
Funnily enough, last few times I checked the Karve site there were no available SS SB baseplates or SS caps.
Those baseplates and caps haven't been available for a few weeks now. What's so hard about a CNC machine making them?
Surely it's all computer controlled? Bung in the metal blanks, press the 'Start' button and stand well back sort of thing.
The SS handle and OC plates are shown as being ready for sale. Have been for weeks.
I ordered the OC baseplates #B, #C, #D. They are ready, so is the handle. I'm waiting weeks for just a SS cap to be made? Does seem a tad strange.
Not my problem. He wants my money he needs to make my razor.
I would bail out again if I could get a SS razor from CG though, or if the new Blackland Tradere pops up first.
 
Given how big a $hitshow this has become with Karve, I went ahead and placed an email order with Wolfman. Btw...emailed James with a question on that order a d he emailed me back within 10 minutes. Just in case any of you were wondering what the real savants can communicate like. Oh ya...and payment due right before shipment is to go out...

Similarly, my order for a Tatara Masamune was flawless and the thing shaves amazingly. Emailed Joao to ask about another head (Nodachi) and he emailed me back within the hour.

Time to raise our standards gents.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
Thanks

It's not something I routinely check! The top cap screws in but does catch at the beginning and then screws in fine -- so I had a look to see why.


For what it's worth, I never screw anything together before turning the part or the screw the wrong way until I hear or feel the "click" at the point where the threads are aligned. This goes for everything and in particular my brass Karve. It's very easy to "cross-thread" a screw or a thread if the alignment is even slightly off. I learned this trick from a machinist of more than 30 years of experience and I've never damaged a thread since.
 
Here, you have a still relatively new, 'artisan' supplier introducing brand new products with no track record. Maybe he is telling customers he will do what he is telling himself he can do and that is probably a bad idea. But it really doesn't matter what he says. Using suppliers like that at minimum will result in delays, and maybe worse problems than that.[/QUOTE]

Or, we have a vender who doesn’t respect his customers
 
Out of boredom I visited this thread and I must say this bickering is kind of amusing. Why anyone would expose themselves to the shenanigans of the Karve or Wolfman Sales process is beyond me when ATT and Timeless have razors readily available. Just not flavor of the month/pseudo exclusive enough ;)
And don't start with the quality of shaves nonsense - a 60$ Gamechanger delivers the same quality shaves as all of those 4 brands.

Can't wait for the next company who gets the YouTube shavers all hyped up and by extension the forums & FB groups. :D
 
Why anyone would expose themselves to the shenanigans of the Karve or Wolfman Sales process is beyond me when ATT and Timeless have razors readily available. Just not flavor of the month/pseudo exclusive enough ;)

People want what they can’t have. Psych 101.
 
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