Kamisori omote side: how it's different from full wedge grind?

[q345]

I am interested to try kamisori and took a look on the info available on the web.
From what I understand the grind is assymetric and the side intended to shave with, omote, is flat.
If that so,how it is different from shaving with western full wedge razor, where both sides are flat as well. Flat is flat, after all , no variations.
Also. It's claimed kamisorI is sharper, then western razors. I am wondering why. Sharpness isthicness of edge and nothing else, if I am not mistaken

 

[Eastcoast30]

The omote is close to a wedge, but it is concave. Just not as concave as the ura side.

 

[q345]

So. Not a 'true wedge' grind ( completely flat) but between 'quarter hollow' and 'wedge' grinds.

 

[alex1921]

Kamisori honing angle

I recently honed a Kamisori and was surprised how hard it was for me to get it really sharp as a straight razor. It seems that the honing angle is rather large. When honing straight razor I have found that if the total honing angle is larger than 20 degree it’s difficult for me to get enough...

www.badgerandblade.com

Check the pic in that thread.

 

[q345]

Kamisori honing angle

I recently honed a Kamisori and was surprised how hard it was for me to get it really sharp as a straight razor. It seems that the honing angle is rather large. When honing straight razor I have found that if the total honing angle is larger than 20 degree it’s difficult for me to get enough...

www.badgerandblade.com

Check the pic in that thread.

Thanks a lot, it explains kamisori assymetrical grind completely. I couldn't find such a detailed image before.

 

[q345]

Thanks to Alex1921 link, I could see now in close up omote and ura sides. Looks like a combo of 'near wedge/quarter hollow' and 'half hollow''. No magic here. The onmy thing I don't understand is repeated mentions that kamisori are, in general , sharper than traditional western razors.
Is that sharpness property of combination of two grinds of different hollowness, or some special steel or it's more intensive honing used for kamisori. If it's steel/honing than it's possible just to have full hollow razor made of kamisori steel which will be equally sharp.

 

[Eastcoast30]

After many many honing sessions on a kamisori, the omote may become completely flat. At that point it can no longer be honed. Well perhaps it might be honed with tape at that point. Check the kamisoris that are sold online and you will see the varying degrees of honing on the omote side. Some of the "beaters" are getting very close to flat.

 

[Gamma]

Kamisori are not inherently sharper than anything else. The steel used to forge them can be quite good, and if the geometry hasn't been annihilated, they can get a great shaving edge. Just like any other razor made from equally good components with similar edge width, steel hardness, and so on. Honestly, the steel in western-style Japanese razors is just as good, if not better. Depends on manufacturer, and manufacturing dates, etc.

Kamirosi are just razors. They're not magic, they're not sharper because they're shaped different, they're not Excalibur, etc.

That said, the steel in some razors - like in lot of sold Sheffields - might be a bit softer and depending on bevel angles and who's honing, might very possibly not be up to the task of holding as keen an edge as some other blades.
Razors made from cast steel for example, not prone to being the sharpest thing ever.
So there's that. Literally splitting hairs here though.
The whole "Kamisoris are sharper' thing though... just more forum wisdom heard from.
I can imagine some noob with a poorly honed Freddie R wedge and comparing it to a New Azuma Yasuki steel Kami that was honed correctly. Sure, that comparison is going to give a false-positive.

 

[q345]

Thanks a lot for your detailed explanation. It clarifies 'kamisori sharpness' issues