Just plain old water....

[mars]

I've said that twice, but instead had my statement misquoted to fit his narrative....My original statement was such:



Then him posting a link that proves my statement correct:

"Many people wish to reduce how much they sweat in addition to the odour fighting effect of a deodorant. All effective anti-perspirants contain aluminium salts (e.g. aluminium chlorohydrate), but there are a lot of rumours about aluminium salts and their effects."

It also confuses me why he would link to that page that basically states "aluminium in antiperspirant isn't bad. Actual scientific studies have not found any link to the claimed ill effects". This in complete opposition to his point of view.

Yeah-- we are in agreement. It's this other guy that doesn't seem to get it.

 

[mars]

I've said that twice, but instead had my statement misquoted to fit his narrative....My original statement was such:



Then him posting a link that proves my statement correct:

"Many people wish to reduce how much they sweat in addition to the odour fighting effect of a deodorant. All effective anti-perspirants contain aluminium salts (e.g. aluminium chlorohydrate), but there are a lot of rumours about aluminium salts and their effects."

It also confuses me why he would link to that page that basically states "aluminium in antiperspirant isn't bad. Actual scientific studies have not found any link to the claimed ill effects". This in complete opposition to his point of view.

He also follows up with a website that says "But just because it’s natural, it doesn’t mean it’s safe," which seems to be against his whole point, too.

Very strange discussion. If you want to stop using soap, etc., be my guest. But, just because you can find something on the internet does not make it true.

 

[Atinofpeas]

I have read a great deal about the "dangers" of aluminium, and my conclusion is that all the warnings against it I have come across are based on repeated assertion and very dubious science, not reliable evidence. In fact, many responsible researchers have now stated that aluminium is not a cause of Alzheimers and other neurological conditions. Also, my understanding is that alum does not stop you sweating, nor will it neutralise any odours already present; it's a very mild bactericide and so stops your sweat going rancid as quickly as it otherwise would.

I am going to have a bit of a dig into the health effects of aluminium i think. Its clear that there is a lot of claim and coubter claim regarding humans using it.

You seem to be correct on the alum block. Having re-read the label in my salt-of-the-earth alum block (deodorant stick) it is indeed not a antipersperent. Just a Deodorant. I thought it helped my when I've used it as a antipersperant but it must have been a placebo.

Still, it is a salt of aluminium in the same vein as the aluminium used in antipersperants, so i am glad to give it a miss whilst i figure out what/if the health risks are of it.

 

[naughtilus]

But, some foods such as potatoes, spinach and tea may contain high levels of aluminium naturally.
https://www.cfs.gov.hk/english/programme/programme_rafs/files/RA35_Aluminium_in_Food_e.pdf

Nothing but bacon in my diet from this point forward. Better safe than sorry.

 

[Atinofpeas]

He also follows up with a website that says "But just because it’s natural, it doesn’t mean it’s safe," which seems to be against his whole point, too.

Very strange discussion. If you want to stop using soap, etc., be my guest. But, just because you can find something on the internet does not make it true.

Agreed on the strange discussion.
Who knew that choosing to not use chemicals and drugs for your daily hygiene routines could be so divisive lol.

 

[Atinofpeas]

But, some foods such as potatoes, spinach and tea may contain high levels of aluminium naturally.
https://www.cfs.gov.hk/english/programme/programme_rafs/files/RA35_Aluminium_in_Food_e.pdf

Nothing but bacon in my diet from this point forward. Better safe than sorry.

The trade is advised to reduce the use of aluminium-containing food additives in preparing food or replace them with other alternatives as far as possible. Information on

They dont like aluminium either...

 

[jmturley]

Agreed on the strange discussion.
Who knew that choosing to not use chemicals and drugs for your daily hygiene routines could be so divisive lol.

That's not what is divisive, great on you and more power to you. It's the use of pseudoscience that gets me. The argument that "this complex compound has this 'dangerous' substance means it's poison" argument is a slap in the face to actual science. There are many substances that are poisonous to humans in their non-compound forms but in more complex compounds are perfectly safe.

 

[GaryTha]

I am going to have a bit of a dig into the health effects of aluminium i think. Its clear that there is a lot of claim and coubter claim regarding humans using it.

You seem to be correct on the alum block. Having re-read the label in my salt-of-the-earth alum block (deodorant stick) it is indeed not a antipersperent. Just a Deodorant. I thought it helped my when I've used it as a antipersperant but it must have been a placebo.

Still, it is a salt of aluminium in the same vein as the aluminium used in antipersperants, so i am glad to give it a miss whilst i figure out what/if the health risks are of it.

Everything I've read says there is an association between alum and Alzheimer's. Associations can never prove anything, however, in many cases, they are worth paying attention to.

My best source was The Alzheimer's Solution: A Breakthrough Program to Prevent and Reverse the Symptoms of Cognitive Decline at Every Age. The book addresses other forms of cognitive dysfunctions, too. If you are willing to change your diet and exercise habits, I recommend the book. The diet is well supported by other sources. If anyone is interested, I'll reference the other sources.

PS: You should also avoid cooking in aluminum.

 

[naughtilus]

They dont like aluminium either...

Terrible thing. You've done well going with olive oil. Doubles down as protection from chemtrails.

Effects of dietary extra virgin olive oil and its fractions on antioxidant status and DNA damage in the heart of rats co-exposed to aluminum and acrylamide.

Effects of dietary extra virgin olive oil .... PubMed - NCBI

 

[Atinofpeas]

That's not what is divisive, great on you and more power to you. It's the use of pseudoscience that gets me. The argument that "this complex compound has this 'dangerous' substance means it's poison" argument is a slap in the face to actual science. There are many substances that are poisonous to humans in their non-compound forms but in more complex compounds are perfectly safe.

I haven't really quoted pseudoscience claiming it to be gospel tbh. I post and link articles i have read which note concern.

Those concerns aren't the sole justification for me avoiding them, nor were they the genesis of this journey away from them.
What they have done is to make question why they are needed at all. The answer i get is that in reality, they are not needed and are put there for the benefit of the maker rather than the user.

 

[Atinofpeas]

Everything I've read says there is an association between alum and Alzheimer's. Associations can never prove anything, however, in many cases, they are worth paying attention to.

My best source was The Alzheimer's Solution: A Breakthrough Program to Prevent and Reverse the Symptoms of Cognitive Decline at Every Age. The book addresses other forms of cognitive dysfunctions, too. If you are willing to change your diet and exercise habits, I recommend the book. The diet is well supported by other sources. If anyone is interested, I'll reference the other sources.

PS: You should also avoid cooking in aluminum.

Good info, thanks!

We havent used aluminium cookware for years!

 

[AimlessWanderer]

Good for you @Atinofpeas

I ditched shampoo over a year ago (or is it two years now? I've lost track) with no adverse effects. I have long hair too. If it gets really grimy, shampooing with a raw egg and cool water rinse sorts it right out. If I need "more than water" but "less than egg", I'll use a herbal tea rinse. I'm still sticking with soap for pits and bits, but water only for the rest of the body.

 

[mars]

I do agree that folks over-cleanse in general. Stripping away oils only to need to replace them with something else is foolish. I only use soap for bits and pits as well unless I've gotten extraordinarily dirty somehow.

 

[Atinofpeas]

Good for you @Atinofpeas

I ditched shampoo over a year ago (or is it two years now? I've lost track) with no adverse effects. I have long hair too. If it gets really grimy, shampooing with a raw egg and cool water rinse sorts it right out. If I need "more than water" but "less than egg", I'll use a herbal tea rinse. I'm still sticking with soap for pits and bits, but water only for the rest of the body.

Talking to friends and family, I have been surprised at just how common not using soap, etc is.

 

[GaryTha]

But, some foods such as potatoes, spinach and tea may contain high levels of aluminium naturally.
https://www.cfs.gov.hk/english/programme/programme_rafs/files/RA35_Aluminium_in_Food_e.pdf

Nothing but bacon in my diet from this point forward. Better safe than sorry.

I just read this report. The study was only done for food in Hong Kong. Based on other studies done by the Chinese, I feel we can trust the data. The main concern was products made with baking powder that likely contained aluminum. Powders sold in the United States generally do not have aluminum. There was no specific data on potatoes, spinach and tea. Even if there was, all the food was collected in Hong Kong.

Although the article didn't specifically say so, at best, this was an observational study. Its purpose is to collect data to stimulate research. Given the narrow area where products were tested, I'd say it's more of a pilot study to develop methods for a larger study. This paper may have been a part of the third China Study. Somewhere, there are likely numbers for rural areas that haven't adopted the western diet.

Most of the foods mentioned as hazards should be avoided for reasons other than aluminum.

 

[ghostlife]

Smelly people don't notice their own BO (directed at both OP and the no shampoo guy)

 

[Rhody]

What about laundry detergent?

 

[Atinofpeas]

Smelly people don't notice their own BO (directed at both OP and the no shampoo guy)

There is a topic in itself.

It could be argued that normal body odour is normal and that one should only be concerned enough to change it if you have become particularly smelly for some reason .

 

[Rhody]

Its been a while any update on the op and no soap or shampoo?

 

[Atinofpeas]

I shall update soon