I just came across this technique but have never done it before. Is it beneficial/recommended?
Jointing?
- Thread starter Tomo
- Start date
I find it to be pointless. IMO, just another parlor trick borrowed from the world of tool sharpening. Similar to 'burr sharpening' in a way. Neither are of much use to anyone that can set a bevel and handle a progression correctly.
Yes, one can 'join' the edge and then make a usable edge following that exercise, but if the edge was created correctly from the start then the only thing joining does is waste steel and time while producing a false sense of accomplishment.
Can't even start to think about how many razors I've honed and never once found a legitimate need, reason, desire or use for 'joining' the edge on a razor. That's just my take on it. Others might enjoy such activities though...
Yes, one can 'join' the edge and then make a usable edge following that exercise, but if the edge was created correctly from the start then the only thing joining does is waste steel and time while producing a false sense of accomplishment.
Can't even start to think about how many razors I've honed and never once found a legitimate need, reason, desire or use for 'joining' the edge on a razor. That's just my take on it. Others might enjoy such activities though...
I have never jointed an edge or raised a burr intentionally in 19years honing razors.
It seems counter intuitive to me.
Not sure I would classify it as a technique really any more than dulling an edge on glass being a technique.
It seems counter intuitive to me.
Not sure I would classify it as a technique really any more than dulling an edge on glass being a technique.
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
I give up. What is jointing?
I thought it only applied to woodwork.or rolling a special kind of cigarette.
Running (i.e. killing) your edge gently across some media like glass, a hone, wood, etc.
Thought to either deflect the edge , or even remove a bit of a "bad" foil edge.
What kind of angle is this done at...?
This is effective imo when you are spending a long time correcting an edge. Flattening the edge will make sure you don't leave any big chips behind as they have to be removed to get the edge back. I have not done it in a long time though as I don't have any edge restores to do. I always did it on the side of a glass.
It's like a very low pressure breadknife stroke. 90 degrees
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
I don't see any value in jointing or breadknifing or whatever you want to call it. No matter what, you still have to remove steel from the blade to form a nice flat bevel face on each side and make them meet in the middle. Jointing saves no steel and saves no effort. It does not result in a better edge. It creates more issues than it solves. It is not the end of the world if you do it, but I would recommend against it. Just hone, until your bevel looks good and the edge is nice and clean, and run your progression to refine and polish. Done.
Jointing does not waste steel, it is a light stroke on the corner of the stone, with the razor edge at 90 degrees to the stone that cuts off a burr cleanly or straightens a microchipped edge. If the edge is chipped, the same amount of steel will need to be removed to the bottom of the chip.
It is not bread-knifing or rolling an edge on glass. It cuts the edge flat and makes a straight edge, then you only need to get the bevels to meet at an edge that is already straight, actually removing less steel, though we are talking about microns, but that is not the point. A straight edge is the goal.
As you hone you create a micro burr, even on the finish hone. After your finish laps you can remove the micro burr, create a straight edge, and then get the bevels to meet at that already straight edge in a few laps with no burr, or you can strop and break off the burr creating a rough edge.
It is a technique that Iwasaki talked about in his textbook on maintaining Japanese razors, (Honing Razors and Nihonkamisori).
It is not bread-knifing or rolling an edge on glass. It cuts the edge flat and makes a straight edge, then you only need to get the bevels to meet at an edge that is already straight, actually removing less steel, though we are talking about microns, but that is not the point. A straight edge is the goal.
As you hone you create a micro burr, even on the finish hone. After your finish laps you can remove the micro burr, create a straight edge, and then get the bevels to meet at that already straight edge in a few laps with no burr, or you can strop and break off the burr creating a rough edge.
It is a technique that Iwasaki talked about in his textbook on maintaining Japanese razors, (Honing Razors and Nihonkamisori).
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Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
There are several different interpretations in the west as to what Iwasaki was actually talking about - part of that confusion is the translation by Jim Rion who admitted that some of the Japanese was archaic and changed his interpretation at least once. At one time st least, Alex Gilmore had a different take on it than Takeshi Aoki. Maybe they’re both right depending on which interpretation that’s used.
Iwasaki also ‘removed the finishing burr’ on a piece of CrOx pasted wool serge. I have my doubts about this and am suspicious that he was just tweaking the edge up with paste, likely because his finishing hone was not the best - but that’s pure speculation. I have at least 4 Hatanaka stones, two Hatahoshi, a black stamped maru-ka, and a tokusen. None of them are good enough razor finishers. However, I also have multiple Kato maru-ka, and those are ALL superb razor finishers. Iwasaki and Hatanaka had common business interests, so I suspect Iwasaki could not publicly recommend a different supplier’s stone and the CrOx was just required to get a better edge.
Admittedly this sentiment is based on a limited sample because of the expense of genuine Hatanaka stones. If one out of ten is a good razor stone like most other jnats that you buy, you’ll have $6,000 - $15,000 or more in the one good one. I’m into the stone thing, not the stamp thing. And if you lap the stamps off a $1,500 stone, you now have a $500 stone - that’s some expensive ink.
Iwasaki also ‘removed the finishing burr’ on a piece of CrOx pasted wool serge. I have my doubts about this and am suspicious that he was just tweaking the edge up with paste, likely because his finishing hone was not the best - but that’s pure speculation. I have at least 4 Hatanaka stones, two Hatahoshi, a black stamped maru-ka, and a tokusen. None of them are good enough razor finishers. However, I also have multiple Kato maru-ka, and those are ALL superb razor finishers. Iwasaki and Hatanaka had common business interests, so I suspect Iwasaki could not publicly recommend a different supplier’s stone and the CrOx was just required to get a better edge.
Admittedly this sentiment is based on a limited sample because of the expense of genuine Hatanaka stones. If one out of ten is a good razor stone like most other jnats that you buy, you’ll have $6,000 - $15,000 or more in the one good one. I’m into the stone thing, not the stamp thing. And if you lap the stamps off a $1,500 stone, you now have a $500 stone - that’s some expensive ink.
It's to flatten a surface, make it even. In sharpening it's most commonly used by saw filers to even up the teeth by use of a saw jointer before other file work is performed.
Ah! I've come across this technique/theory before, albeit in a different context. You can see the same thing around the 2 min mark in this video:
TBH I've been too hesitant to play around with it much on knives, let alone razors!
TBH I've been too hesitant to play around with it much on knives, let alone razors!
I've done this on quite a few occasions, it severs a purpose imo. It's a good way to clear an edge and start new to get a good judge on a different stone. It can also help clear micro chips or a crumbling edge. It doesn't take much pressure and doesn't waste any metal.
Howard Schechter does it
about 29 minutes and 15 seconds into this video.
about 29 minutes and 15 seconds into this video.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
You lost me at "29 minutes".
This is not something I have always done but semi recently have started testing it out. In the past I had read and thought it might waste steel, but if gentle I dont think much is lost. I have also noticed many of my vintage well used razor hones had alot of bread knife scars on them! I had also recently noticed H Brad Boonshaft mentioning it as useful and was curious. So I have done it on my last few razors, and found it interesting.
First, chips smaller than I can see with my naked eye are detecable. If Im very gently running along a corner or thumbnail it will be jerky if chipped. Second I believe it can help test if the bevel is fully set correctly. If gently done, it wont take long to make the apex again, faster than I thought actually. Third, it does seem to clean up the razor edge when viewed under magnification, and keep it more clean as progressing. Kind of how leather stropping between stones will help an edge. Fourth, doing this near the end of honing gives me a queasy feeling!
Now ive done it some, will I keep doing it? I dont know. It seems to have a use, but I dont think it is required. I can see how some are big supporters of it and like it. Maybe on rough shape razors Ill do it?
First, chips smaller than I can see with my naked eye are detecable. If Im very gently running along a corner or thumbnail it will be jerky if chipped. Second I believe it can help test if the bevel is fully set correctly. If gently done, it wont take long to make the apex again, faster than I thought actually. Third, it does seem to clean up the razor edge when viewed under magnification, and keep it more clean as progressing. Kind of how leather stropping between stones will help an edge. Fourth, doing this near the end of honing gives me a queasy feeling!
Now ive done it some, will I keep doing it? I dont know. It seems to have a use, but I dont think it is required. I can see how some are big supporters of it and like it. Maybe on rough shape razors Ill do it?
You can slide the progress bar on your video viewer.
You don't actually have to wait 29 minutes.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Yeah I know but I am always leery of anybody who can't say what they want to say in less time than that. Habitually I don't watch any youtubes over about 12 minutes long.
