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Jnats+black ark base stone? (Or random mismatch base stone/ "nagura" thread)

Has anyone ever done this? I use all manner of random stones to slurry on mismatch cousins from different continents fairly often but I'm new to jnats and kinda perplexed with the because they're beautiful, even the crappy ones. I've used a finger stone that @cotedupy sent me on a Charnley and a suspected llyn idwal that is pretty soft for novaculite. Softer than any of my Washitas and as fine as my black ark. Has anyone used jnats as nagura with a black/ trans ark or some other very hard non jnat as a base stone? I've done it and I'm aware that it can be done but does anyone hey do it with regularity? When i got the tip of using Tam O'shanter slurry on a Charnley or llyn idwal it was a complete game changer and it got me to rubbing random rocks together. Im dipping my littlest toe into the jnat hole but I like to hear everyone else's experiences. So, anyone done this regularly, with repeatable results with jnats as slurry stones with a black ark base?
 
I'll do my best to catalog my trials and tests with these different combos. I think knowing nothing about the stones can give me a pretty objective outlook. I suggested black/ trans arks because they are something I've got tons of experience with and know exactly how they'll behave.
 
Has anyone ever done this? I use all manner of random stones to slurry on mismatch cousins from different continents fairly often but I'm new to jnats and kinda perplexed with the because they're beautiful, even the crappy ones. I've used a finger stone that @cotedupy sent me on a Charnley and a suspected llyn idwal that is pretty soft for novaculite. Softer than any of my Washitas and as fine as my black ark. Has anyone used jnats as nagura with a black/ trans ark or some other very hard non jnat as a base stone? I've done it and I'm aware that it can be done but does anyone hey do it with regularity? When i got the tip of using Tam O'shanter slurry on a Charnley or llyn idwal it was a complete game changer and it got me to rubbing random rocks together. Im dipping my littlest toe into the jnat hole but I like to hear everyone else's experiences. So, anyone done this regularly, with repeatable results with jnats as slurry stones with a black ark base?

I've used a chunk of Rozsutec (Slovakia) to make a slurry on my Nakayama Honyama base stone. Pretty good results too.
 
Not with Arks, I did test nagura on an Ark years ago and it did not improve an Ark edge.

You have to think about the end game, what is your goal. If you just want a Kasumi finish, hone on a Jnat, there is not much that can improve that, other than finer Nagura or technique.

Same for a Hard Ark, stone finish, oil or technique.

What makes nagura work so well with Jnats is the synergy of the two stones where they are similar but with slightly different grits or binders. On a hard Ark the nagura is just rolling on top of the Ark, and there is no benefit or improvement.

By all means experiment, but to me it’s like all these restaurants trying to make meatless burger taste better than a good old hamburger. Just eat a hamburger if you want a burger, eat a salad if you want a salad, maybe that’s too easy.
 
An observation...

Of course you can to this on a trans or black ark, but remember what you're trying to achieve with a slurry stone. If you use a slurry on something like this - the goal is to speed up your honing, and gradually blend the slurry edge into the edge from the finishing stone. It's not going to improve a black ark edge, but it might improve the black ark itself, by making the whole affair less tediously slow and bothersome.

So yeah - a jnat slurry on a hard arkansas stone will work. You'd want to be to use quite a fine nagura to do this with so the grit jump isn't too large. And you'll need to be super careful about scratching the Ark up.

Also:

*** Nagura are soaking stones ***
 
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An observation...

Of course you can to this on a trans or black ark, but remember what you're trying to achieve with a slurry stone. If you use a slurry on something like this - the goal is to speed up your honing, and gradually blend the slurry edge into the edge from the finishing stone. It's not going to improve a black ark edge, but it might improve the black ark itself, by making the whole affair less tediously slow and bothersome.

So yeah - a jnat slurry on a hard arkansas stone will work. You'd want to be to use quite a fine nagura to do this with so the grit jump isn't too large. And you'll need to be super careful about scratching the Ark up.

Also:

*** Nagura are soaking stones ***
Noted I may give it a go later. I got a 4.5x5" trans primitive cut that I think would make due. Because trans stones are slow if I don't have a highly refined edge wouldn't I be mainly seeing the characteristics of the slurry? Im just trying to get a feel of the nature of each stone. The feel of a jnat is very unique to me compared to all the other types of stone I've used. Interesting stuff.
 
“ Because trans stones are slow if I don't have a highly refined edge wouldn't I be mainly seeing the characteristics of the slurry.”


Yes, and not even the full benefit of the nagura. Look at how granite surface plates are corrected/calibrated. They roll a bit of Diamond powder onto a large heavy, soft cast iron plate, so the diamond embeds into the plate then use it like a giant Diamond plate. It cuts a granite surface plate quickly. Loose diamond does not have the same effect.

Years ago, guys were sprinkling Diamonds and CBN on all their stones, naturals and synthetic, in an attempt to improve performance.

I agree, it might make a nice finish on a stone face, but after you wash the slurry all off.

A hard Ark will never cut like a synthetic, so just refine on a synthetic 8,10, or 12k, then go to the Ark, you will already have a shaving edge and are just polishing.
 
“ Because trans stones are slow if I don't have a highly refined edge wouldn't I be mainly seeing the characteristics of the slurry.”


Yes, and not even the full benefit of the nagura. Look at how granite surface plates are corrected/calibrated. They roll a bit of Diamond powder onto a large heavy, soft cast iron plate, so the diamond embeds into the plate then use it like a giant Diamond plate. It cuts a granite surface plate quickly. Loose diamond does not have the same effect.

Years ago, guys were sprinkling Diamonds and CBN on all their stones, naturals and synthetic, in an attempt to improve performance.

I agree, it might make a nice finish on a stone face, but after you wash the slurry all off.

A hard Ark will never cut like a synthetic, so just refine on a synthetic 8,10, or 12k, then go to the Ark, you will already have a shaving edge and are just polishing.
I used a lvl 4 nakayama kiita to slurry on top of a lvl 5 ozuku Asagi just to play with an already refined edge on a knife and it continued to refine it and made the edge more aggressive. The polish on the bevel is unlike any other stones I've got.
 
Because trans stones are slow if I don't have a highly refined edge wouldn't I be mainly seeing the characteristics of the slurry?


Yep; almost exclusively to begin with, and then through dilution and working the slurry you blend it into an edge finished with clean water on your honyama/ark/finishing stone. It's like doing a progression.

NB - though I have both I'm not a massive trans/black ark expert. This technique will work with them, but they wouldn't be my first choice of a stone to do it on.

---

I do use Japanese nagura on all sorts of other razor stones to good effect; Charnleys, Idwals, Slates, Thuris.

Though I never use them for knife sharpening. I don't like jnats - nagura or benchstones - for knife sharpening really.
 
The best use i have found for mixing different naguras with different base stones have been for knife sharpening.
Coticule nagura on Tsushima jnat works really well (knife sharpening)
Coticule nagura on naniwa pro 2k (knife sharpening)
Tsushima jnat used as nagura on 8k snow white (razor)
 
OK this is just the thread I was looking for. I have several stones that could act as a hard “base”, and several slurry stones from different countries. What I don’t really have is a great marriage for the two, so I’m thinking of ways to get clever. (No Les Lat benchstones, no Nakayama or similar very hard, fine Jnats). I do have several very hard Arks, and a Finnish phyllite razor stone, so I think I’m going to go down this rabbit hole with you…
 
OK this is just the thread I was looking for. I have several stones that could act as a hard “base”, and several slurry stones from different countries. What I don’t really have is a great marriage for the two, so I’m thinking of ways to get clever. (No Les Lat benchstones, no Nakayama or similar very hard, fine Jnats). I do have several very hard Arks, and a Finnish phyllite razor stone, so I think I’m going to go down this rabbit hole with you…
One of my favorite combos for knives and razors is a Tam o shanter slurried onto a Charnley forest stone.
 
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