JNAT vs. FILM Edge - Scientific data? No. Opinionated drivel? Yes.

[TnutsShave]

So, after drooling over the JNAT hone thread and asking what I perceived to be very thought provoking questions (thought provoking in that I had no idea what I was talking about...and it showed), Alfredo (Doc226) sent me a PM and insisted that I try a JNAT edge (I was shaving exclusively off of my film edges at that point). Naturally, I accepted his generosity if for no other reason than to pay him back for continually asking everyone to send their most prized razor show pieces for "proper disposal" In his words:

"Send me a razor, I'll JNATize for you. You simply must try one. "​

So, a favorite of mine, a nice full hollow Hamburg Concave is off...some time passed...and it arrived back yesterday. Shave was this morning.

Custom Bamboo handled 28mm TGN Finest soaks while showering.
Art Vandershave superlather (Van Der Hagen Deluxe and AOS unscented cream)
50 laps leather
Shave - One pass with touchups (my normal routine...I have an average beard, not heavy, not light, but a nice one pass is more than sufficient to get a DFS if I do it right and the edge is true)
Floid Blue Splash

Well, Alfredo is always talking about "Mojo", and I think I get it now, at least as it compares to MY film edges (maybe not yours). It certainly did not feel any keener than the usual film edges I shave with, but it did feel markedly less "surgical" for lack of a better term. As I told Alfredo, after the first few strokes, I just kind of whipped it around my face without any real trepidation. There have been many times (I'd say almost daily) that after a particular stroke, I thought to myself "that could have been bad if I had slipped up there". Of course I could have cut face, and badly, with this razor, but I didn't feel like I was at any really risk of receiving any "kisses" from this edge. Perhaps it was mental, perhaps not, but the feeling was palpable nonetheless. Even with my technique down pat as I believe it is now, I still get a smooch from my razors every once in a while....it just felt like it was less likely to occur with this particular razor than the one I used yesterday, for example, which was a film honed razor by rickboone1 and my favorite film edge to date.

So, the takeaways:

• Alfredo can put a pretty slick edge on a razor (and he's saying he only felt it was about 90% dialed in...I'll let him explain that)
• There is certainly a difference between the two edges...I wouldn't necessarily say that the the JNAT edge was better or worse than my film edges, but I would also say I'd LOVE to keep a JNAT edge in my rotation from now on, no question about that
• You owe it to yourself to try a JNAT edge
• This is ultimately going to end up costing me money somehow

I hope Alfredo would be kind enough to outline the progression here as I know I'm interested in the fully monty, so to speak. Big shout out to another fine member here for a job well done. Thanks Doc!

 

[SliceOfLife]

Emperor Doc:

 

[dakotaev]

I fully endorse JNAT mojo.

 

[paco664]

jnat edges are awesome...

you should try a coti/oil edge also... just so you know what your missing...

 

[TnutsShave]

jnat edges are awesome...

you should try a coti/oil edge also... just so you know what your missing...

I've shaved off of one before (I don't believe any oil was used) back in my early days of straight shaving and I've got to be honest, I wasn't a fan. I'll have to give it another go one of these days. There may have been a technique problem at that point....

 

[Doc226]

TJ, nice write up, thank you for sharing and your kind words.

First thing I do when honing a razor is to kill the edge on glass, this allows me to make sure the edge is truly my edge.

The bevel was set on a large Botan Nagura

I did this until if was easily cutting cherry tomatoes. This is how I test for bevel completion, shaving hair works well but I don't like the bald patches. I make sure the cherry tomatoes are easily cut along the entire blade.

After this is a full nagura progression on the JNAT.

Botan-->Tenjou-->Mejiro-->Kona-->Toma--> plain water on the stone

I make a slurry and work it until it breaks down, then dilute it. I don't count laps, I go by feel and the look of the fluid on the edge.

When finishing on plain water, there is some considerable suction of the edge on the stone, I had some of this razor but not as much as I would expect-this is why I said the edge was 90%.

I check edges off the stone with the HHT and expect a minimum of a 3, if not more work need to be done. The HHT should be 4-5 after a good stropping.

IMHO there is nothing better than a proper JNAT edge, they are both keen and smooth. Film edges can be quite sharp, maybe even sharper, but not as smooth.

Glad you enjoyed the shave, that is what its all about.

 

[rickboone1]

Tnuts... I was thinking I used stones on your razor? I may have used film??... If I said I did, I did. Is that what you used on the one you sent?

Which reminds me, I personally don't pay attention to how or what it was honed on, just the final result. I try to accurately judge an edge and not have any preconceived ideas of it's going to be great because it was finished this way or that. Just me, that's all.

From what I can gather when using film or other things that can produce a sharper edge it seems more work needs to be done at the 1 and 4k levels first of all. The grits higher than that, easy and low count strokes help maintain smoothness. I know it's typically the common thing to do like 50-100 strokes on your finisher. If that works for you, fantastic. I do about 10 very light strokes on my highest grit.

Doc...do you use the Jnat by itself? Water only?

So, you raise slurry with one stone and set your bevel. So, that slurry produces a certain "grit". Then on from there, each slurry stone produces a different "grit"?

Most jnat stones' edges I have tried have been fantastic. They do fascinate me and I will agree with a lot of what Tnuts has said here. I can't call one better or worse. Different.

 

[Doc226]

Doc...do you use the Jnat by itself? Water only?

So, you raise slurry with one stone and set your bevel. So, that slurry produces a certain "grit". Then on from there, each slurry stone produces a different "grit"?

Most jnat stones' edges I have tried have been fantastic. They do fascinate me and I will agree with a lot of what Tnuts has said here. I can't call one better or worse. Different.

The final laps are done on plain water on the main JNAT stone.

I have 5 Naguras, someone who know more than I do about JNATs, told me that the Botan slurry starts at a certain grit level and breaks down as you hone. The broken down Botan slurry is actually finer than fresh Tenjou slurry and so on. So by producing a slurry at each Nagura stage you are actually going back ever so slightly and then progressing.

All the naguras are used on the larger JNAT.

 

[TnutsShave]

Tnuts... I was thinking I used stones on your razor? I may have used film??... If I said I did, I did. Is that what you used on the one you sent?

Which reminds me, I personally don't pay attention to how or what it was honed on, just the final result. I try to accurately judge an edge and not have any preconceived ideas of it's going to be great because it was finished this way or that. Just me, that's all.

From what I can gather when using film or other things that can produce a sharper edge it seems more work needs to be done at the 1 and 4k levels first of all. The grits higher than that, easy and low count strokes help maintain smoothness. I know it's typically the common thing to do like 50-100 strokes on your finisher. If that works for you, fantastic. I do about 10 very light strokes on my highest grit.

Doc...do you use the Jnat by itself? Water only?

So, you raise slurry with one stone and set your bevel. So, that slurry produces a certain "grit". Then on from there, each slurry stone produces a different "grit"?

Most jnat stones' edges I have tried have been fantastic. They do fascinate me and I will agree with a lot of what Tnuts has said here. I can't call one better or worse. Different.

Maybe it was stones, I thought it was on film. Either way, I'm shaving with it and it's one of my favorites. The GD I sent back to you was done all on films. I shaved with that one a couple of times before I sent it back and it was pretty sweet if I do say so myself.

I think learning to hone with that JNAT progression would be interesting from the perspective of the learning curve. Films are easy right out of the box. While a JNAT might not be difficult, you can't tell me that you're just go to unbox your stuff and get knockout edges right out of the gate.

Well, maybe YOU can Rick, but I would expect you to say that.

 

[Doc226]

you can't tell me that you're just go to unbox your stuff and get knockout edges right out of the gate.

When I first started with JNATs I used them after a maxed out coticule edge. Just the Tomo Nagura-I swore many times JNAT was the Japanese work for dulling a razor. I would take a shave worthy razor in and would bring out a dull butter knife.

 

[Gamma]

Interesting stone set and Nagura progression..

 

[rickboone1]

Maybe it was stones, I thought it was on film. Either way, I'm shaving with it and it's one of my favorites. The GD I sent back to you was done all on films. I shaved with that one a couple of times before I sent it back and it was pretty sweet if I do say so myself.

I think learning to hone with that JNAT progression would be interesting from the perspective of the learning curve. Films are easy right out of the box. While a JNAT might not be difficult, you can't tell me that you're just go to unbox your stuff and get knockout edges right out of the gate.

Well, maybe YOU can Rick, but I would expect you to say that.

Precisely one of the reasons I haven't gone down the Jnat road. Too much to learn. My brain can't handle but so much. Shoot, I have hard enough time remembering what color film goes next. If I did it on stones, it was synthetic stones. That's all I've been using lately. Finishing on Shapton 16k. But, I honestly don't remember. Another reason I haven't gone Jnat is cost. Yes, they are nice. To some, they are the bees knees. If I had them and had taken the time to learn them, they may be to me, too.

That makes sense about it going backwards a little in "grit" as you progress through the naguras. Pretty cool.

 

[paco664]

jnats are not that hard to use....

you rub the little slurry stone on it... rub the razor for a while...

wash off the slurry.... rub the razor for a while....

test... strop.... shave.... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....

easy peasy...

 

[rickboone1]

jnats are not that hard to use....

you rub the little slurry stone on it... rub the razor for a while...

wash off the slurry.... rub the razor for a while....

test... strop.... shave.... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....

easy peasy...

You have to know which stone to rub when.

So, are most all Jnats by themselves going to be finishers?

 

[paco664]

nope....

*(someone will correct me if i am wrong)...

 

[Seraphim]

the faucet is hungry!!!!

 

[Doc226]

the faucet is hungry!!!!

HAHAHA, you are still messing around with Chango? The suitcase was just a warning, who knows what is next.

By the way the next time I bang a razor on the faucet will be my first


Knocks on wood.

 

[Wid]

You can use a Jnat as just a finisher, no problem.

 

[Seraphim]

HAHAHA, you are still messing around with Chango? The suitcase was just a warning, who knows what is next.

By the way the next time I bang a razor on the faucet will be my first


Knocks on wood.

In Russia, faucet bang you.

 

[TnutsShave]

Precisely one of the reasons I haven't gone down the Jnat road. Too much to learn. My brain can't handle but so much. Shoot, I have hard enough time remembering what color film goes next. If I did it on stones, it was synthetic stones. That's all I've been using lately. Finishing on Shapton 16k. But, I honestly don't remember. Another reason I haven't gone Jnat is cost. Yes, they are nice. To some, they are the bees knees. If I had them and had taken the time to learn them, they may be to me, too.

That makes sense about it going backwards a little in "grit" as you progress through the naguras. Pretty cool.

Shaptons ain't cheap either, right? One of the reasons films has been a great compromise for me is the money crunch while saving for the wedding. Come November 18th, it's game on. I've already got my story all sorted out to get my JNAT and Nagura's. They'll show up, she'll ask the next obvious question...

"Honey, they're just rocks, how much could they possibly cost?"

Which reminds me...Can I register at EasternSmooth.com for Wedding presents, or would that be in poor taste? I mean, let's be realistic, everyone benefits from a good shave.