Whats the deal with these razors, are they better than western straights, easier/harder to use, sharper, are they still made today, or only vintage, and why do they seem to cost more than western straights, sorry for all the questions, but they seem to pop up on the bst and in the forums, and i dont know a thing about them, they look scarey and have no sclaes, so look a bit basic to my eyes?
Japanese straights.
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I am interested in this as well. I have no answers for you but I am excited to see what the consensus is on this topic! Thanks for the great question, Taffy!
They are simply different.
They are ground assymetrically, and thus if you flip the razor the incedence angle is different, blah, blah, blah. Did you try using the "Search" function? This issue has been covered and recovered countless times (and has yet to come to a common conclusion....
). Some say they're the best thing ever, the samurai swordsmith had special abilities and powers that render these a cut above the rest, others say just use them as you would any other razor, others insist that the omote side must be used, others say that they are designed only for others to shave you, not to shave yourself, on and on and on....
For me, I was not too impressed when I used one (Tosuke style). It sure did take a nice edge, but nothing mythical. I did not care for the asymetry of the edge profile.
They are ground assymetrically, and thus if you flip the razor the incedence angle is different, blah, blah, blah. Did you try using the "Search" function? This issue has been covered and recovered countless times (and has yet to come to a common conclusion....
). Some say they're the best thing ever, the samurai swordsmith had special abilities and powers that render these a cut above the rest, others say just use them as you would any other razor, others insist that the omote side must be used, others say that they are designed only for others to shave you, not to shave yourself, on and on and on....For me, I was not too impressed when I used one (Tosuke style). It sure did take a nice edge, but nothing mythical. I did not care for the asymetry of the edge profile.
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They are simply different.
They are ground assymetrically, and thus if you flip the razor the incedence angle is different, blah, blah, blah. Did you try using the "Search" function? This issue has been covered and recovered countless times (and has yet to come to a common conclusion....
For me, I was not too impressed when I used one (Tosuke style). It sure did take a nice edge, but nothing mythical. I did not care for the asymetry of the edge profile.
Great answer, thanks, though you just made me think of another question, styles, are there different styles, you mentioned a tasuke?
Touske, is a brand name.
Just do a search on Tosuke, or japanese straight. Many great explanations already exist. I have a Tosuke-labeled razor. They are different. Some people love them. Some don't.
Have you managed to try a japanese frameback yet? I've been on the fence about putting out a WTB for one (missed the boat plenty of times by now, heh).
Japanese frameback falls into my definition of a western style razor.
I haven't tried one, but I WANT TO
I have tried both the Japanese Kamisori (non-folding) style razors, and also their western style razors (framebacks and not).
First, on the western style razors:
I may have got lucky, but all the western-style Japanese razors I tried have been superb shavers. The ones I've tried (all hollow-ground), are comparable to the very expensive western brands (Puma, Filarmonica), I've used.
I have only used one Japanese frameback. It was also really well-made, and it shaved really well. As is common with framebacks, it shaved very like a wedge (stiff).
Now, about kamisori: I agree with Seraphim.....they're different, but not necessarily better shavers. It took me some work to figure out how to get a good shave with one. They get very, very sharp, so you need a light touch (or at least I did), and you need to get the angle down well (as with any straight, really).
There were no obvious benefits for me. I still have several of them, and I use them occasionally....but only occasionally.
For people with light growth of hair these razors (properly used) may offer you your best shot at a 1-pass shave. In my case, a complete 3 pass shave is still necessary. The sharpness does have a negative effect here, as you run the risk of feeling like you've peeled your face if you use a slightly heavy touch.
You're best served by sticking to kamisori for a while if you decide to get one. The techniques used are slightly different from Western straights and you'll benefit from prolonged use of these razors.
However, to conclude....they're not better than western-style straights.....just different.
First, on the western style razors:
I may have got lucky, but all the western-style Japanese razors I tried have been superb shavers. The ones I've tried (all hollow-ground), are comparable to the very expensive western brands (Puma, Filarmonica), I've used.
I have only used one Japanese frameback. It was also really well-made, and it shaved really well. As is common with framebacks, it shaved very like a wedge (stiff).
Now, about kamisori: I agree with Seraphim.....they're different, but not necessarily better shavers. It took me some work to figure out how to get a good shave with one. They get very, very sharp, so you need a light touch (or at least I did), and you need to get the angle down well (as with any straight, really).
There were no obvious benefits for me. I still have several of them, and I use them occasionally....but only occasionally.
For people with light growth of hair these razors (properly used) may offer you your best shot at a 1-pass shave. In my case, a complete 3 pass shave is still necessary. The sharpness does have a negative effect here, as you run the risk of feeling like you've peeled your face if you use a slightly heavy touch.
You're best served by sticking to kamisori for a while if you decide to get one. The techniques used are slightly different from Western straights and you'll benefit from prolonged use of these razors.
However, to conclude....they're not better than western-style straights.....just different.
I've got a Iwasaki Kamisori 50mm and I love it. Provides consistently great shaves, and I actually find it more comfortalbe to hold and manuver around my face due to the lack of scales and shortened blade length.
If you ever spot one on the B/S/T, snap it up quick! They sell like hotcakes and once you've given it a shot you can always sell it after.
If you ever spot one on the B/S/T, snap it up quick! They sell like hotcakes and once you've given it a shot you can always sell it after.
When you create a tool to do a combination of things as opposed to a specialized one to do only one thing you usually get better results with the specialized tool.
That's the way it is with the Japanese Razor. It edge is specialized and that's why it gives a superior result. Most that use it will tell you that and the notion that shaving with one is slightly different than using a western style I don't agree with. I found it's like learning to shave all over again especially if you do it using the same side as intended. If you use both sides then of course its far easier.
That's the way it is with the Japanese Razor. It edge is specialized and that's why it gives a superior result. Most that use it will tell you that and the notion that shaving with one is slightly different than using a western style I don't agree with. I found it's like learning to shave all over again especially if you do it using the same side as intended. If you use both sides then of course its far easier.
Thebigspendur --
My experience parallels your as well: it took a lot of work for me to figure out how to use these razors properly.
I still can't do a proper ATG pass in the upper-lip area.
My experience parallels your as well: it took a lot of work for me to figure out how to use these razors properly.
I still can't do a proper ATG pass in the upper-lip area.
I feel at this point I have used my Kamisori enough (about 32 shaves) to give my impression of it. Here's my 2 cents:
I bought one of those NOS Hanasamas from Telly back in June. I have used it almost exclusively since then. This is the only Kamisori I have used so I don't know if my results would be the same on another brand. What I can say is this razor has come the closest to giving a one pass BBS shave than anything else I have tried... and let me tell you I have rough whiskers (DE blades last 2 shaves, Feathers I can squeeze to 3-4). This thing just mows through them like nothing else. I have a lot of different Western straights from wedges to full hollows from 8/8 to 4/8... various top quality Soligens, Sheffields and US steel makers. They all take great edges and I can get a comfortable 2 pass BBS shave with any of them. Now the Hanasama takes me 2 passes as well, but there is a noticeable difference in the first pass quality. Plus the BBS feeling does last longer with the Hanasama, about 13-14 hours vs. 9-12 with a Western style. Also, I usually need to do some touch ups after the second pass with the Western style for a 100% BBS shave; with the Hanasama I usually don't need to. I think that might be due to the shorter blade length makes it easier to get a full coverage swipe.
Here's another thing, 30+ shaves on the original honing done by Telly. Just normal stropping on an Ambrose Spanish leather strop and the canvas component he has. It still pops hairs like when I got it. Usually the longest I can get out of a blade is 20 before it will need a touch up on a barber hone.
Now it took some serious practice to just shave with the omote. There are still 2 small spots that I need to hit with the ura. This is due to the way the grain is on my beard and my ear gets in the way of the handle when I do an ATG pass on the one side of my cheek near my ear. With a Western, I don't have that problem. The Kamisori is also far less forgiving to mistakes and issues with technique. You really need to pay attention to feedback from the blade or else she'll have no problem lopping off your head.
Initially it did take much longer to shave with the Kamisori but now it is about the same as a Western straight. I still throw in a Western straight and DE shave now and then, but this Hanasama really has me smitten. 
YMMV as always. If you are curious as to what it is like, here's JimR showing a traditional Kamisori shave:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBDRP6tSOWo[/YOUTUBE]
I bought one of those NOS Hanasamas from Telly back in June. I have used it almost exclusively since then. This is the only Kamisori I have used so I don't know if my results would be the same on another brand. What I can say is this razor has come the closest to giving a one pass BBS shave than anything else I have tried... and let me tell you I have rough whiskers (DE blades last 2 shaves, Feathers I can squeeze to 3-4). This thing just mows through them like nothing else. I have a lot of different Western straights from wedges to full hollows from 8/8 to 4/8... various top quality Soligens, Sheffields and US steel makers. They all take great edges and I can get a comfortable 2 pass BBS shave with any of them. Now the Hanasama takes me 2 passes as well, but there is a noticeable difference in the first pass quality. Plus the BBS feeling does last longer with the Hanasama, about 13-14 hours vs. 9-12 with a Western style. Also, I usually need to do some touch ups after the second pass with the Western style for a 100% BBS shave; with the Hanasama I usually don't need to. I think that might be due to the shorter blade length makes it easier to get a full coverage swipe.
Here's another thing, 30+ shaves on the original honing done by Telly. Just normal stropping on an Ambrose Spanish leather strop and the canvas component he has. It still pops hairs like when I got it. Usually the longest I can get out of a blade is 20 before it will need a touch up on a barber hone.
Now it took some serious practice to just shave with the omote. There are still 2 small spots that I need to hit with the ura. This is due to the way the grain is on my beard and my ear gets in the way of the handle when I do an ATG pass on the one side of my cheek near my ear. With a Western, I don't have that problem. The Kamisori is also far less forgiving to mistakes and issues with technique. You really need to pay attention to feedback from the blade or else she'll have no problem lopping off your head.
Initially it did take much longer to shave with the Kamisori but now it is about the same as a Western straight. I still throw in a Western straight and DE shave now and then, but this Hanasama really has me smitten. YMMV as always. If you are curious as to what it is like, here's JimR showing a traditional Kamisori shave:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBDRP6tSOWo[/YOUTUBE]
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