Japanese knife question (MAC and Masamoto)

[kevinm]

It's been a few years since I ditched my Wusthof knives in favor of some MAC knives, and I've been very happy with them. Recently I decided to try a different Japanese knife and I bought a Masamoto VG10 Gyutou knife, which is a highly rated 8.2 inch "chef knife" type knife. It's almost identical in feel and shape to one of my MACs and I can feel that it is very sharp, yet I just find it doesn't cut well - it doesn't seem to cut as if it's sharp, even though I know it is. I have a feeling that this is something to do with blade thickness maybe or possibly the way I'm using it, but it's been disappointing. Anyone know why I'm experiencing this issue with a sharp knife?

PS: Think I'm going to participate in the Group Buy....

 

[expatCanuck]

Handle feel & blade geometry (thickness, bevel angle) definitely affect the feel of a knife. Does it feel 'duller' for all uses?
(e.g. - I have a Henckel utility knife that blows away any other (costly Japanese) knife I have for slicing apples.)

If it does, perhaps you need to touch it up on a fine & very fine sharpening stone.

 

[kevinm]

Thanks. It's not consistent so I don't think it needs touching up, but I could be wrong...

 

[DaveMartell]

It could be the thickness coming into play but more than likely it's the factory edge (if you haven't sharpened it) that failing on you. MAC's are sharpened for the western user while Masamoto is sharpened to be sold in a knife store in Japan where an in-store sharpener takes care of this for you if you elect. This is just a guess of course.

 

[kevinm]

It could be the thickness coming into play but more than likely it's the factory edge (if you haven't sharpened it) that failing on you. MAC's are sharpened for the western user while Masamoto is sharpened to be sold in a knife store in Japan where an in-store sharpener takes care of this for you if you elect. This is just a guess of course.

Thanks. Maybe I should sharpen it i.e. give it a Western edge? Would you recommend that?

 

[DaveMartell]

Sharpening it up might just be the ticket.

 

[kevinm]

What's the conventional wisdom among knife experts about using Chef's Choice electric sharpeners? Or is that a stupid question?

 

[DaveMartell]

What's the conventional wisdom among knife experts about using Chef's Choice electric sharpeners? Or is that a stupid question?

I personally don't care for them because of the damage I've seen over the years. I think that if someone was very careful with using them and had the correct one then it would be better than nothing. There's one model that has a 3rd stage stropping wheel which seems OK but all the others are not easy on the edge. Oh and I'm talking about German knives, Japanese stuff will likely explode on one of those wheels. I'm actually being serious here, the edges are just too hard and thin for diamond wheels.

 

[Suzuki]

Dave - what about the pull-through sharpeners. I understand that Chef's Choice has a manual pull-through sharpener with the stones set at a 15% angle for Japanese knives?

 

[DaveMartell]

The only time that a pre-set angle device is effective is if the device grinds in a new bevel like the powered versions do. If a manual pre-set device is used it is almost guaranteed to not hit the cutting edge since the angles are likely less than 15 deg. If this was used on a German knife with 20 deg angles then it would be effective.

 

[DaveMartell]

Something else is stone type used, if it's rods or round stones then that's OK but don't ever use those carbide insert pull through types on any knife - they're edge killers.

 

[ouch]

Everybody has to shave. Now that can be a bad thing or a good thing. This site is dedicated to those who want it to be a good thing and will take whatever steps are necessary to ensure that it is.

The reality is that knives (or straight razors, for that matter) get dull. No way around it. Again, this can be a bad thing or a good thing. It's a bad thing for almost everyone, because they really have no idea how to address the problem, and there seem to be a million solutions and sugestions. Ultimately, you'll have to find or learn a solution that will best fit your needs it terms of price, convenience, and results. I don't think anybody ever figured it out to their satisfaction the first time around.

 

[kevinm]

Follow up to the original post: I sharpened the Masomoto; it's very sharp but just doesn't cut nicely; cutting an onion is too much of an effort. I am pretty sure it's a blade thickness issue. Very disappointing for a new and expensive knife. Thankfully, my MACs are still terrific.

 

[Gruder]

I don't discount your experience at all, David, but my Masamoto VG10 gyutou has onions in my kitchen quaking in fear. The knife was sharpened out of the factory box on a three-stone progression (by a guy who knows what he's doing -- not me yet, but I'm learning!). Again, I don't doubt your assessment for a second, but wanted you to know that it can be done.

 

[Scotto]

David, I have the same knife, and when correctly sharpened it is insanely easy to cut with. How are you sharpening it, and how you define it is "very sharp"?

 

[kevinm]

Scotto, sorry about the delay in replying. I ended up sharpening it carefully and gently with a 3-stage Chef's Choice electric sharpener. It feels sharp with the finger test and it cuts a piece of paper (held up) easily. It's hard to explain what I am feeling but the equivalent MAC is so much nicer and easier to use.

 

[ouch]

 

[Jim]

Scotto, sorry about the delay in replying. I ended up sharpening it carefully and gently with a 3-stage Chef's Choice electric sharpener. It feels sharp with the finger test and it cuts a piece of paper (held up) easily. It's hard to explain what I am feeling but the equivalent MAC is so much nicer and easier to use.

Kevin,
the only things that comes to mind is the knife may need to be thinned behind the edge. As a knife is sharpened the edge moves up the blade to thicker and thicker areas of the blade. Aggressive or mechanical sharpening could enhance this effect. The other is that your edge angle now is probably 50-50, these knives do have a bias for the right handers so that may be what you are feeling.

Can you take some photos of the edge and from the heel to the tip on edge?

Keep your hat on Minnie!