JapanatHome stones on eBay

[SliceOfLife]

Picked this puppy up from J@home on eBay. Guy seems to have appeared overnight a few months back listing 5-10 jnats at a time with pretty reasonable, though succinct descriptions. At first I suspected it was a second eBay outlet for 330mates rocks, but I can't say that for certain. There isn't a 330mate stamp on mine, just the standard circled 力 followed by 正本山.

First use was interesting. I definitely wouldn't call it a hard stone. One of the softer stones I have in fact. I'm no expert, but on the typical 1-5+++ scale, if my karasu is a 5+++ and something you can crumble with your fingers is 1, I'd say this would be around 3.5-4.
It turns Karasu about 50-60% of the way down and has one ~1.5cm crack on the surface I can't feel and a few chunks missing out on the sides. Nothing really serious. I'll have shave results off it probably tomorrow. For HHT and scope inspection, I'd say it appears a fair bit coarser than my Karasu, and a bit under my 13k JIS. I'd estimate the sharpness off it just from those tests to be at most 10.5-12k JIS range, but the shave will tell me more.
That little red strip on the end is separated from the rest of the stone by an ~2cm thick strip that appears to have su, though the rest of the stone does not. Very peculiar, and the texture is noticeably different in that strip.

Seller included a japanese postcard in the box which was kind of neat.

Description:
Maruka Kiita Tamagoiro Back Side Karasu Japanese Natural Whetstone Toishi Kyoto
the size is 56*190*19
weight is 478g

hard stone

good for razor hone



Has anyone else experimented with hones from this seller? Experiences?

 

[buca3152]

Never did but will take a look. I get nervous with a lot of lines as who knows if they will turn toxic with use or lapping. Let us know how it shaves.

 

[jpcwon]

I almost pulled the trigger several times on this seller's stones, but I never did...What's the consensus on the Maruka stamp; do we think that it's legit? I could not tell if they were genuine maruka stamped stones, or if some guy just got a hold of a Maruka stamp and is stamping everything that he comes across...

These stones are very interesting, though, and yours is very nice looking!! Good for you, Ian, for being the "guinea pig" and trying one of this seller's stones!! I'll defintiely be interested in hearing how the edge is off of it!!

 

[Gamma]

I would venture to say that all of the 'Maruka' stone from that seller are counterfeits.
No one, as in not one single person selling stones in Japan, is going to sell an authentic Maruka for pennies on the dollar.
Fakes abound, and those stones are just that.
i haven't seen one stone they've listed with that stamp that I'd believe to be authentic.

The person handling the messaging for those transactions isn't Nakaoka-San, but that doesn't mean there isn't some kind of connection.
In fact, I'm nearly certain that there is a connection, but that speculation is only based on some personal experiences and conjecture.
They are a troubling seller - maybe some stones are ok, maybe not. Answers to questions seem to dance around the subject intentionally.
That person knows stones, I can tell by the way they discuss them in emails - but when pressed for exacting info they shut down or respond off-topic.
Most of the stones seem to be waste cut Koppas with serious liabilities. Others, at a glance, seem usable. The prices aren't great for what they are, which seem to be, for the most part, nothing better than the $50-75 Ozukus and Jyunshouhonyama plates. Stones like that sit on tables in the corners of smaller hardware stores and stone shops with sale tags on them for a reason. Sometimes a gamble pays off but usually, you get what you paid for or less. To us, those slabs seem like a bargain stone because we're not exposed to such things, if Imanishi had a shop in Times Sq, maybe we'd think differently.

There is, or was anyway, a US based woodworking site selling (approx) 6x2 Jnats for about 60 USD. Same low end/quality stones - ask them about using them for razors and they'll tell you 'probably not a good idea'.

Then - there's the Okudo Suita for 5-600 this seller has had up for a while. It's not cut well on the bottom, but if that stone is real it's probably a major piece.
I can't find the reference photo I had, but it might actually be Ohira. Regardless, it's a rare stone and no doubt a killer performer.

i bought one stone from them, and it wasn't a bargain piece. I can tell you for certain that the stamps are illegitimate and that the seller fabricates hardness ratings and where the stone was mined.
I knew what I was getting before it arrived, so I wasn't burned. The stone's description was completely wrong though.
Had I bought the stone thinking I was getting what was advertised I be screwed.

Buyer beware, caveat emptor. Any one perceived success will spark a 100 sales that probably won't end the same way.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Well after a few shaves. It's a pretty solid stone. Not as fine as my karasu, but that was readily apparent. The shaves were a little harsh, but that's probably just a matter of getting the finish tuned in. I'll update after a few more attempts on it.

 

[Brooksie967]

Just like my 330mate stone (that I didn't know was a 330mate stone when I bought it as it came from a very different seller).
Turns out the damn thing puts a wonderful edge on anything it touches with very little effort!
Last pic 2nd from the left as well. I still have no idea what it is... It was sold as a Nakayama Honsuita...

 

[Gamma]

I've had a number of 330mate stones, all good. None were cut particularly well, some had liabilities that needed work to overcome - but all put a good edge on a razor. None were expensive either.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Pretty much. After the first shave I lapped it down to get rid of some gaps on the surface. Nothing really that I need to hone around has come up so far. It's a little early to comment on the stone in use since I've only gone with one razor on it so far, but it seems, as you'd expect quite fast as it is actually pretty soft. It autoslurrys a bit with pressure that's fine to use on my karasu on water, but the lapping has toned that down quite a bit and it may break in a bit further with use. The edges are a lot like I remember getting on diamond slurry on my karasu, that very distinct scratch pattern and harsh cut of the edge that a slurried finish seems to give me off jnats... and the part I'm working on now is eliminating that if I can and getting a finish more similar to a tomo-nag or water finish off my karasu. Time will tell.

 

[Bayamontate]

I've had a number of 330mate stones, all good. None were cut particularly well, some had liabilities that needed work to overcome - but all put a good edge on a razor. None were expensive either.

This has been my experience as well.

 

[jpcwon]

I've had a number of 330mate stones, all good. None were cut particularly well, some had liabilities that needed work to overcome - but all put a good edge on a razor. None were expensive either.

I got an Okudo Karasu from 330mate for under $100. It turns out that it is a great stone for razors. I think he sells good stones; you just need to know what you're looking for. I was not educated on JNATS when I bought the stone, but I think I lucked out!!

 

[BakerAndBadger]

330mate sells on Yahoo Auctions Japan under the name fujibatocom and has over 2700 feedback - I guess it speaks for itself, the Japanese sure know their own stones.

 

[alx gilmore]

I agree with all thats said above. When Kato-san the previous owner of the Nakayama mine was alive it was only he who used that Maruka stamp, and he tended to reserve it for superior quality stones that represented his personal choice. Hatanaka-san has used that stamp sparingly I am sure because the current Hatanaka has his own stamps. I do not see that stone as living up to either Kato or Hatanaka standards, who in their haydays had in storage lots to choose from.

There is lots of unmarked Nakayama stone out there, Kato offered wholesale stone to the flatlanders on a regular basis, Kato was really just a miner and not a retailer. Nakaoka-san, not to defend him, actually knows a lot about stones, and has dug a few achaeological sites in his day and there is a video of him taking Carter or Carter knives out for a romp in the woods.

I hope you got a good stone for razors.

The term Karasu is a reference to crows, or black crows flying against a sky. What is offered as karasu these days are pretty weak if you use that definition. I took this photo a couple of years ago as Jim Rion and I were walking around the Yasuki blade show in Yasuki City where the famous steel comes from.

The two stones on the outside, L. Takahima at $3,000 and R. Takashima at $2,000 and the middle Oozuku (Ozuku) at $800 show these patterns better.

Alex

 

[jpcwon]

^^^Thanks as always for sharing, Alex! Your picture of Karasu stones illustrates the patterns much better than my picture...But yes, I do believe that I got a very good stone from Nakaoka-san. I think some good stones can be had out there from several online sellers, provided you know what you're looking at/for....There are many not-so-good ones too, though, so you have to know the difference (which I cannot claim to always know!!)...

 

[SliceOfLife]

Figured I'd update on this lil bugger.

It's a pretty decent stone. Definitely a step down from what I use as a finisher, but fully capable of being used as a "finisher". Above what I recall getting off Swaty's and Cnats. Very similar in use to the generic "razor finishing" Jnat I bought from Dicks a few years back for around $60. Not quite as uniformly cut, but prettier and alike results... also it was a bit cheaper. I want to say the Dicks stone was advertised as 6-8k JIS, so that in mind, I'd now estimate this stone to hover right around the top end of that, or about 8k JIS.

That said, it's not a hard stone. Not by a long shot. So be wary of the ratings of Japan@Home. I did buy another stone from him sold as "Super Hard Stone"... that stone actually IS hard. Not as hard as my Karasu but of similar hardness (just slightly under) to my extremely hard Tomonagura (which came fully stamped and fancy schmancy from a reputable dealer and cost more than I'd care to say)... so it's not that he can't tell hardness. He seems to just label stones as hard if they are anything other than mud.

Now will I use this stone for razors? Probably not. I COULD use it as a prefinisher, and I COULD shave with it if I didn't already have drawers full of better stones for both purposes. As it is, I'll probably test it a bit more for knives, as it should be quite good for that purpose.

 

[Brooksie967]

I spoke with the vendor and asked him about the Maruka stamps. His only reply was 'If you don't like how I do my business then you can take your business elsewhere'.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Sounds like a swell fella.

 

[Gamma]

I spoke with the vendor and asked him about the Maruka stamps. His only reply was 'If you don't like how I do my business then you can take your business elsewhere'.

Lol. Perfect.

 

[Thomas Martin]

I agree with all thats said above. When Kato-san the previous owner of the Nakayama mine was alive it was only he who used that Maruka stamp, and he tended to reserve it for superior quality stones that represented his personal choice. Hatanaka-san has used that stamp sparingly I am sure because the current Hatanaka has his own stamps. I do not see that stone as living up to either Kato or Hatanaka standards, who in their haydays had in storage lots to choose from.

There is lots of unmarked Nakayama stone out there, Kato offered wholesale stone to the flatlanders on a regular basis, Kato was really just a miner and not a retailer. Nakaoka-san, not to defend him, actually knows a lot about stones, and has dug a few achaeological sites in his day and there is a video of him taking Carter or Carter knives out for a romp in the woods.

I hope you got a good stone for razors.

The term Karasu is a reference to crows, or black crows flying against a sky. What is offered as karasu these days are pretty weak if you use that definition. I took this photo a couple of years ago as Jim Rion and I were walking around the Yasuki blade show in Yasuki City where the famous steel comes from.

The two stones on the outside, L. Takahima at $3,000 and R. Takashima at $2,000 and the middle Oozuku (Ozuku) at $800 show these patterns better.

Alex

Wow. These look gorgeous. In fact, there's a huge one like this for over 18'000 bucks on the bay as I speak. I still hesitate to pull the trigger on that (just kiddin). Can someone in the know give some intel on this kind of stones. How does this pattern affect the honing. This whole JNat business is fascinating.

 

[Gamma]

It's been said that Karasu, esp the darker patterns, can be scratchy. The lighter patterned stones are not prone to that though.
Ive had several dark Karasu. None were problematic though.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I've read that too, but been puzzled by what "scratchiness" in a hone would be. The only way it hones in the first place is by scratching steel.