Ivory scales

[aussie]

So I have seen ivory scales mentioned here a few times of late, so I thought maybe we should have a thread dedicated to this topic.

Are they any more appealing than other natural materials? Any more valuable? Are they illegal to possess anywhere?

I bought a George Wostenholme a few weeks back from Ebay, and I didn't realise that the scales were ivory until it arrived. There's a crack in the wedge end. I am wondering if I should retire or repair them. What do you think?

 

[DrStrange]

I can't tell from your picture whether the scales are ivory or bone.
The dark spots look like haversian canals
and the pictures don't show the grain pattern which is typical of ivory.


https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/attachments/dscn0824b-jpg.1037889/

 

[aussie]

Wow that is a nice piece. I have an MK31 and it is clothed in while plastic scales. I have a Henckels 14in cow's bone that looks nothing like the GW I posted here. It has a lot of red in the material.

 

[Eastcoast30]

"Are they any more appealing than other natural materials? Any more valuable? Are they illegal to possess anywhere?"

As far as I know, razors like my ivory MK 31 were made with pre-ban or pre-1900 ivory. It is now illegal to harvest ivory but I believe it is safe to own pre-ban ivory. There are many appealing materials today. Also, old piano keys or billiard balls made of ivory tend to discolor and form "crack-like veins". There are many polymer materials today that are appealing, such as kirinite. And I believe camel bone and buffalo horn are still being used.

 

[Multum in parvo]

No trading within the EU anymore, even on pre-ban and/or CITES cleared antiques…

Press corner

Highlights, press releases and speeches

ec.europa.eu

Not a razor but my only piece (CITES).

 

[Darth Scandalous]

So I have seen ivory scales mentioned here a few times of late, so I thought maybe we should have a thread dedicated to this topic.

Are they any more appealing than other natural materials? Any more valuable? Are they illegal to possess anywhere?

I bought a George Wostenholme a few weeks back from Ebay, and I didn't realise that the scales were ivory until it arrived. There's a crack in the wedge end. I am wondering if I should retire or repair them. What do you think?View attachment 1553993View attachment 1553994

Hard to tell from the pics, I had on old Sheffield razor that I was sure was bone until I cleaned it up. But, as far as the crack, if it's stable, you may not need worry about it. Otherwise drizzling some thinned CA glue into the crack isn't a bad plan. Those scales are pretty cool so I wouldn't want to ditch them.

 

[aussie]

Hard to tell from the pics, I had on old Sheffield razor that I was sure was bone until I cleaned it up. But, as far as the crack, if it's stable, you may not need worry about it. Otherwise drizzling some thinned CA glue into the crack isn't a bad plan. Those scales are pretty cool so I wouldn't want to ditch them.

Yes I agree that it is much too soon to give up on them. The blade is quite sharp so I might paste strop it and give it a try.

 

[HazMat Shaver]

Save the scales. They are nice. But I'm leaning more toward bone. I could be wrong. I agree with a little CA to help strengthen the crack. Or if you have the ability, unpin and line them with brass or fiberglass or some other quality repair.

These are ivory but the lines you look for are not very easy to see, but they are there. This is a Mappin and Webb Set. I have a couple of cracks in the set but I'm not going to mess with them. They have been honed and I've shaved with them all a few times. But now they just hide in the box put away for the day I pass and someone finds them.

 

[HazMat Shaver]

One more piece of Ivory I ran across at a yard sale. It cost me 25 cents. The Penney in the picture is just for size. LOL.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Does look bone-ish in the photo, but they are pinned collarless. Cleaning will better tell. How thick are they? Post a side pic.

Yea, clean the crack as best you can and stabilize with CA. Wedge pin cracks are not critical.

Clearly pre ban, but selling is another story. Nice find.

 

[DrStrange]

One more piece of Ivory I ran across at a yard sale. It cost me 25 cents. The Penney in the picture is just for size. LOL.
View attachment 1554071

Long parallel lines without any branching,
are typical of celluloid.

 

[DrStrange]

Save the scales. They are nice. But I'm leaning more toward bone. I could be wrong. I agree with a little CA to help strengthen the crack. Or if you have the ability, unpin and line them with brass or fiberglass or some other quality repair.

These are ivory but the lines you look for are not very easy to see, but they are there. This is a Mappin and Webb Set. I have a couple of cracks in the set but I'm not going to mess with them. They have been honed and I've shaved with them all a few times. But now they just hide in the box put away for the day I pass and someone finds them.
View attachment 1554068

If I open that picture in a new tab and expand the picture, (I'm using a Kindle Fire)
then the third one from the right shows the lines the best.

Also, Mappin And Webb is good place to start if you're looking for ivory scales.

 

[DrStrange]

Wow that is a nice piece. I have an MK31 and it is clothed in while plastic scales. I have a Henckels 14in cow's bone that looks nothing like the GW I posted here. It has a lot of red in the material.

Thank you.
I can't say that your razor isn't ivory, I'm only saying that I can't tell from the pictures.
In either case, the scales are top quality.

I like bone scales. Bone is very similar to ivory and there are fewer and smaller
moral and ethical issues, and no legal issues that I am aware of at this time.

In terms of legality, rarity, similarity, overall desirability, and commonality of artificial look alike material:
one analogy might be
Bone is to Ivory as Horn is to Genuine Tortoise Shell.

Fake Tortoise Shell is ubiquitous to the extent that the term Tortoise Shell,
is generally construed to mean Not Genuine.

The quality of horn scales varies greatly.
I have some horn that I really like, and some other, not so much.

If it's the right kind of wood, some wood scales I like a lot.
I have a Heljestrand rescaled in rosewood, very nice.

I don't like the way that aluminum scales feel in my hand.

I'm leery of celluloid because it can decompose rather easily
into blade eating corrosive gas.

There are a lot of different plastics, some of which such as Bakelite,
which are very tough and durable.
But I like the feel of natural materials,
especially as concerns the grip, a little better.
Not a lot better, just a little.

And lastly, Mother Of Pearl.
I have only seen scales made entirely out of Pearl, in pictures.

 

[Legion]

Long parallel lines without any branching,
are typical of celluloid.

They called it Ivorine, or French Ivory. Unless you find it in an antique store. Then it is always called genuine ivory, and priced accordingly.

 

[Legion]

I've had some bone scales that were near impossible to distinguish from ivory until I took them off, cleaned them properly, and inspected from both sides. From the OP's picture I too am leaning towards bone, but without having them in hand I can't be sure.

I've never seen ivory scales stamped in that way, that would be quite unusual.

 

[cotedupy]

What do you think?

Whether they're bone or ivory (and I'm certainly not enough of an expert to know) I'd leave them for the moment, and see if the crack develops. It's probably fine just like that I imagine.

Are they illegal to possess anywhere?

I don't know of anywhere where it would be illegal to possess old ivory, there may be places but I don't know of any. It is however in many countries illegal to sell without certification that it is antique rather than modern, and the same goes for transporting across international borders.

Any more valuable?

Than most other things, yep. Scarcity I suppose, but actually in the UK at least they're not desperately uncommon.

Are they any more appealing than other natural materials?

I don't have many ivory scaled razors (3), and I use them quite a lot because they all happen to be excellent razors. But personally in answer to the q. I'd say - no.

Even leaving aside the questionable nature of the ivory trade throughout its history; I find horn more tactilely appealing, I also think it's more nuanced, varied and visually interesting than ivory.

I do still like it though, I have a matching pair of these old James Johnson near wedges that really are rather nice .

 

[Shangas]

In total, I have about eight ivory straight razors.

All collected over a period of about 10 years.

They're not illegal to own, but knowing how to identify them is very important, obviously. I bought all mine online, or at flea-markets and antiques shops.

It's BECAUSE most people literally wouldn't recognise ivory if it hit them in the face, that they're often dirt cheap! They're often mistaken for the celluloid faux-ivory ones which were really common in the early 1900s, so they can be picked up for next to nothing.

One "advantage" of ivory, if you want to put it that way, is that, because they're usually, very very thin - the razor is very lightweight, and so very comfortable to use.

 

[Legion]

Probably a majority of the razors I buy these days have ivory. My RAD is over, but I tell myself I am “saving” ivory scales.

I’ve had some where they were cracked like that and it wasn’t stable. The solution I have is to put them to one side until you have a shorty blade that needs rescaling, and trim away the cracked bit.

 

[Gamma]

I've had many Razors in ivory, still have a few. I might even have a set of slab blanks to make new scales out of stashed somewhere. To me, Ivory scales are not all that great big of a big deal; I get the rarity and antiquity and all that but they don't shave any better and the opulence there is lost on me for the most part. It's not that I'm totally indifferent to them, I just don't put a lot of personal value on Ivory scales. I would be way more jazzed about getting an Ivory guitar nut or bridge saddle.

 

[5whiskey]

As many have already stated, your pictures make the scales look much more like bone. I have both bone and ivory scaled razors. I chased ivory for a while, but I'm ho-hum on it now. Sure it may command a small premium if I run across it, but not by a whole lot. The only thing I can speak of regarding Ivory scales is that the blades affixed to them were usually of better quality than lesser materials like wood or bone.