I've tried and tried.. Can't get it sharp.

[Slash McCoy]

What I consider heavy pressure is the full weight of my relaxed arm bearing down on a stone or plate held in my other hand and not on a bench or table. That is suitable for beginning the bevel setting process. It removes steel quickly and efficiently. This will result in a burr, whether you like it or not, which must then be honed off with lighter pressure. A few laps with the weight of the forearm. Then more with weight of the hand. Weight of the hand is what I regard as medium pressure. This is good for beginning your progression. Then you want to lighten still more. Maybe the weight of the razor and the weight of a finger. At the end of the finishing stage you should be applying less than the weight of the razor. Almost impossible for a beginner to do, bench honing. Hone in hand and you can do it.

 

[iamryan25]

FWIW I had no issue with adjusting pressure using a bench stone and not honing in hand when I first started.

Hold the razor however you feel you have the most control. If that is with two hands on the razor or one hand on the razor and the stone in a stone holder, or one hand on a razor and one hand holding the stone, that is up to you to decide and nobody can tell you what is more comfortable for you.

 

[Slash McCoy]

FWIW I had no issue with adjusting pressure using a bench stone and not honing in hand when I first started.

Hold the razor however you feel you have the most control. If that is with two hands on the razor or one hand on the razor and the stone in a stone holder, or one hand on a razor and one hand holding the stone, that is up to you to decide and nobody can tell you what is more comfortable for you.

Compared to what?

So when you first started, could you pass a razor 1/4" above your forearm and sever hairs with absolute silence and zero perceptible disturbance to the hair shaft? Or was it just "hey, that actually shaved pretty good!"? Were you able to clear your neck with just a few swipes ATG with your razor, or get a DFS bordering on BBS in under 5 minutes? In other words, are you talking about mediocre average performance or something truly worth pursuing? Yes, you did have an issue with adjusting and REGULATING and BALANCING pressure. You just did not realize it. It is a matter of degree. There are many on this board who have learned from me and created better than professional edges by their second attempt. One of several things they had in common was they started out by honing in hand. Feel free to do it your way. And I can't censor you, but I would ask you to not distribute false and unintendedly misleading information to beginners trying to get it right.

Bench honing is sort of like doing watch repair with a sledge hammer. Eventually you could get very skilled at that, but in the beginning you are going to make a lot of substandard repairs.

I suggest you ask any beginner who has tried both honing in hand and bench honing, which one was quickest to learn and to achieve praiseworthy results from. You are trying to apply your own perceptions garnered through your own experiences with one and only one style. I DID start out bench honing. Switching to honing in hand, after reviewing very old home movies of my Grandpa honing his old Primble pocketknife and testing the edge in ways that you literally would not believe, was part of the beginning of achieving honing results that amazed me when it started coming together for me. He was doing things with a pocketknife off a hard American no-name mystery origin natural that I couldn't do with my razor. What was he doing that was so different? The biggest thing was honing in hand, unsupported, out in front of him. What he did with that rock, a little spit, and an ancient two blade folder, turned the wheels in my head. When I tried it, it felt awkward for about 10 seconds. Then it made sense. That first edge, that VERY FIRST edge after switching from trying to control the razor to just letting it be, made a tremendous difference. Suddenly my shaves went from less comfort than a DE shave to considerably more comfort than a DE shave.

Anyway that's all I got to say about that, as FG would say.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I just take the razor and use this honing method:

Always worked for me.

 

[ajduplessis]

I realize that I am getting way ahead of myself but can anyone comment on the amount of pressure needed to set the bevel? It looks like you only need to apply a small amount of pressure.

26,63g per square inch

 

[SliceOfLife]

To address that question... there is no correct amount of pressure just like there's no correct amount of pressure for a massage. Different amounts of pressure produce different reactions. If you're familiar with that amount of pressure, that stone, that razor/tool, you'll know what that reaction is and how that helps you proceed in the honing process. If you aren't, then you're just guessing at what you've done to the razor and so essentially your question is "What amount of pressure produces the results I'm expecting when I'm trying to set the bevel on a particular stone and a particular razor. Which even if someone had the encyclopedic knowledge to answer for that exact case... the answer itself would be to change your process, which would change your instinct on what your process is doing/achieving... which would change the answer. It's a catch 22. "How fast should I drive this obstacle course blind if I am executing the maneuvers like you've seen me do" Then your guide tells you to speed up... You're going to execute your maneuvers faster and screw up the course because instinctually you will feel you're going faster and adjust. That's why there is no magic bullet answer no matter how specific people get. It's a matter of practice and developing the skill to answer those questions yourself.

 

[Steve56]

I realize that I am getting way ahead of myself but can anyone comment on the amount of pressure needed to set the bevel? It looks like you only need to apply a small amount of pressure.

Anything near knife pressure is about 100x too much.

For a full hollow, imagine walking by your table and wondering if it needs dusting. you run your finger across the table to see if there’s dust. The pressure that most of us would use for that is in the ballpark. Maybe just a little more. If the razor is a heavy grind you can use more pressure to set the bevel, but you need to back off the pressure as you go up the grits

If you need to move metal (eBay special, chip, etc) and your hone isn’t cutting it (pun intended, lol) you need a coarser stone, you can’t push harder on a razor. You can with a knife.

 

[iamryan25]

I suggest you ask any beginner who has tried both honing in hand and bench honing, which one was quickest to learn and to achieve praiseworthy results from.

I work with a lot of beginners, and different people favor different ways of holding razors. Typically whatever is more comfortable in the beginning will be less of a barrier to learning. The answers will be mixed as to which people favor.

Thankfully, the difference between each way of holding the razor is not as dramatic as "doing watch repair with a sledge hammer" .... at least not for everyone.

You are trying to apply your own perceptions garnered through your own experiences with one and only one style.

I am sharing my experiences to show that not everyone has the same experience as you.

 

[ajduplessis]

I suggest you ask any beginner who has tried both honing in hand and bench honing, which one was quickest to learn and to achieve praiseworthy results from.

I tried both and bench honing for me was a lot quicker YMMV.

 

[RumpleBearskin]

FWIW - I prefer honing on the bench with "bench stones" (8x3 or bigger), but vastly prefer honing in hand with smaller stones (coticule bout). I started honing with Norton bench stones and "in hand" was unwieldy with the larger stones.

I do use my pasted balsa in hand, but it's significantly lighter than the Norton stones.

 

[rbscebu]

My first 15 or so bevel sets were done in hand using whetstones of about 150mm x 50mm. I tried using them on bench but that never worked for me. I then got three larger synthetic whetstones. Due to their size and weight, I used them on bench to set beveles. It took about another 5 bevels sets to things right with on bench.

My progressions after bevel are still all done in hand. I have tried on bench but could never get the edge that I could get in hand.

I am with Mr. McCoy on this. For a beginner SR honer, start in hand. Later, when you know what to expect, learn the additional skills required to hone on bench.

 

[ajduplessis]

Previous poll for honing in hand vs bench was biased towards bench honing IIRC...

 

[rbscebu]

Previous poll for honing in hand vs bench was biased towards bench honing IIRC...

Yes, however here we are referring to those who are relatively new to honing. I dare say that a majority of experienced honers bench hone a lot of the time.

Even I now find bench honing when setting a bevel to be more comfortable for me, however I did have to increase my honing skills to achieve desired results when bench honing.

 

[ajduplessis]

I thought we are all ‘relatively’ new to honing, or at least this holds true for me. Also 95% of honing videos/education showcase bench honing, not sure how a noob is going to consider anything else... It seems that hand honing is not really discussed everywhere and more of a ‘advanced’ discussion at the deeper end of the honing pool.

I can achieve quality edges with both techniques now but still believe its easier to learn on bench. The downside compared hand honing is that most folks use to much or uneven pressure and hand honing will reduce or even eliminate this.

Ever tried honing bench or handheld with your non-dominant hand? I might actually be getting better results as its a new ‘feeling’ and experience.

Either way, bench or handheld will result is dull, uneven bevels if done badly. So its more of executing a technique correctly rather than which is better or easier to learn.