Is vegan/vegetable soap actually soap?

[Olajidebt]

I'll gather up so much hate probably But hear me out, I am not making this thread for the sake of controversy, I'm generally curious and would love a discussion.

My thought process is this. Soap was discovered some time ago, 2800 B.C. by the Babylonians, or so they say. So far so good. Up until recent years 20-30, 50 max, there wasn't vegan/vegetable oil soap, right?(correct me if I am wrong I don't know really). So for the majority of time the definiton of a soap is that it was/is tallow based, and that's what a soap was. By that logic isn't vegan/vegetable oil soaps an imitation of a soap?

I see a similar problem with let's say steak. For so many years steak meant a piece of meat. Can there be vegan/vegetarian steak, since it's not even meat?

 

[BudgetShaverGuy]

Here’s the official definition for soap, and nowhere does it mention shaving btw

Soap: a substance used with water for washing and cleaning, made of a compound of natural oils or fats with sodium hydroxide or another strong alkali, and typically having perfume and coloring added.

 

[Olajidebt]

I saw that, but when was this specific definition put into use?

 

[Olajidebt]

Also the definition by Meriam-Webster:

"Acleansing and emulsifying agent made usually by action of alkali on fat or fatty acids and consisting essentially of sodium or potassium salts of such acids"

Doesn't say oils anywhere.

Definition of SOAP

a cleansing and emulsifying agent made usually by action of alkali on fat or fatty acids and consisting essentially of sodium or potassium salts of such acids; a salt of a fatty acid and a metal; soap opera… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[BudgetShaverGuy]

Doesn’t really matter. Whether it’s a vegetable fat or animal fat, once it becomes saponified, it’s soap.

Now whether or not you believe that soap needs animal fats to be worth shaving with, is your opinion and nothing more. There’s good, great, and bad soaps made from either animal or vegetable fats.

 

[Olajidebt]

But why doesn't it matter? I don't believe it needs animal fats, I just am thinking logically. Also the quality of soaps whether tallow or vegan is not the topic.

 

[jbr63]

Research Castile soap. You may be surprised how long it has been in existence.

 

[Olajidebt]

Well I'll be damned...

Much thanks to jbr63 for the enlightenment. Vegan soaps existed for centuries, who knew, well jbr63 and probably many other people. I guess vegan soaps are classified as soaps!

 

[cw62803]

Well I'll be damned...

Much thanks to jbr63 for the enlightenment. Vegan soaps existed for centuries, who knew, well jbr63 and probably many other people. I guess vegan soaps are classified as soaps!

Now what about those vegan steaks?

 

[rockviper]

Didn't the old timers ( like @FarmerTan ) shave using shells and olive oil back a few thousand years ago?

 

[BigJ]

Now what about those vegan steaks?

Not in my house!!

 

[FarmerTan]

Didn't the old timers ( like @FarmerTan ) shave using shells and olive oil back a few thousand years ago?

I was kinda advanced for my era. I whipped my olive oil with rooster tail feathers, then used those same feathers to apply the foamy result to my face! True story.

 

[cryhavoc]

I was kinda advanced for my era. I whipped my olive oil with rooster tail feathers, then used those same feathers to apply the foamy result to my face! True story.

Was that before or after you created dirt?

 

[FarmerTan]

Was that before or after you created dirt?

No, I showed up right after the dirt!

 

[Aaron Hall]

Saponification is a chemical reaction between fats (saturated [i.e. solid] or unsaturated [i.e. liquid]) and a strong base (i.e. lye). It is a fairly simple reaction, and my Dad (who is 75) can remember making soap on the farm from the fats (tallow) of whatever animal they had slaughtered/hunted when he was young.

The source of the fats (which includes oils) doesn’t matter, and could be inorganic, too; all that matters is that it is chemically a fat. The source of the base could be synthetic (lye/sodium hydroxide) or natural (I think the most common natural source is seaweed but could be totally wrong on that point).

 

[Ad Astra]

Well, the Celts invented shave soap, but it was their undoing.

Helmets are helmets, not shave bowls! I tried to tell them, by Toutatis ... The Romans were no respecters of "vegan" soap!


AA

 

[thefenlander]

Saponification is a chemical reaction between fats (saturated [i.e. solid] or unsaturated [i.e. liquid]) and a strong base (i.e. lye). It is a fairly simple reaction, and my Dad (who is 75) can remember making soap on the farm from the fats (tallow) of whatever animal they had slaughtered/hunted when he was young.

The source of the fats (which includes oils) doesn’t matter, and could be inorganic, too; all that matters is that it is chemically a fat. The source of the base could be synthetic (lye/sodium hydroxide) or natural (I think the most common natural source is seaweed but could be totally wrong on that point).

I would have thought pot ash (potassium hydroxide) would have been the base most likely to hand when soap was discovered.

Makes you wonder how bad that person's cooking was to discover it...

 

[sealer]

I'll gather up so much hate probably But hear me out, I am not making this thread for the sake of controversy, I'm generally curious and would love a discussion.

My thought process is this. Soap was discovered some time ago, 2800 B.C. by the Babylonians, or so they say. So far so good. Up until recent years 20-30, 50 max, there wasn't vegan/vegetable oil soap, right?(correct me if I am wrong I don't know really). So for the majority of time the definiton of a soap is that it was/is tallow based, and that's what a soap was. By that logic isn't vegan/vegetable oil soaps an imitation of a soap?

I see a similar problem with let's say steak. For so many years steak meant a piece of meat. Can there be vegan/vegetarian steak, since it's not even meat?

Alepo soap, from Syria is one of the older, if not the oldest, soaps in production and is made of vegetables oils.'

I reckon animal fat was too precious at these old days to transform it onto soap, while olive trees were widespread trough the levant.

Whatever tallow of vegetable oil was first used is one thiung, hard to know, but vegetable soaps exists for thousands of years
Cheers

 

[dan86]

I'll gather up so much hate probably But hear me out, I am not making this thread for the sake of controversy, I'm generally curious and would love a discussion.

My thought process is this. Soap was discovered some time ago, 2800 B.C. by the Babylonians, or so they say. So far so good. Up until recent years 20-30, 50 max, there wasn't vegan/vegetable oil soap, right?(correct me if I am wrong I don't know really). So for the majority of time the definiton of a soap is that it was/is tallow based, and that's what a soap was. By that logic isn't vegan/vegetable oil soaps an imitation of a soap?

I see a similar problem with let's say steak. For so many years steak meant a piece of meat. Can there be vegan/vegetarian steak, since it's not even meat?

The latter thing really makes me scratch my head. In Blighty we have a bakery chain called Greggs, which is popular but often taken the mickey out of. For instance a “Greggs’ dummy” is a sausage roll usually given to some screaming child in a pram to keep them quiet!
Anyway two of their most popular products are their sausage rolls and steak bakes. Well in the last year or so they’ve launched vegan steak bakes and vegan sausage rolls and by all accounts they’re popular. Good marketing I guess.

I was a vegetarian for part of my childhood and teenage years and still don’t eat much meat but in all that time I would never have thought, “gee I know, I’d love a vegetarian version of a meat pasty that replicates the texture of a meat product I’m choosing to not eat because of my principles.”
Plus I never gave up butter and all-butter pastry is in a league of its own.

As for soaps, my experience of vegetable soap is limited to Wickham Soap Co and their soaps are fantastic. Super easy to lather and high quality.

 

[Rudy Vey]

In opposite to vegan steaks, vegan soap is real soap....