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Is this stone cracked? Norton Translucent. New.

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
I think this brand new Norton Translucent stone is cracked, but...

Norton1.crack.640.JPG
Norton2.Crack.640.JPG
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What do you think?

The vendor is apologetic...

"We're very sorry if there appears to be something wrong with it. I had our On-Site Technician look at the pictures and he couldn't fully tell by looking at them if that line is a crack or just something from the manufacturer. Unfortunately, we're completely out of stock of these so we can't grab another one and look at it.

"You're definitely welcome to send it back for a full refund if you're not sure about using it."

Can it be anything other than a crack in your opinion.

Advise me, please, kind sirs.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 
Looks awful uniform to be a crack...almost like it was something done with assistance of a straightedge.
Or am I looking at the wrong image?
 
to my untrained eye it looks like they butted two stones together and epoxied them or something...ive seen that happen when someone dropped their coticle. As i said though, my eye is untrained. if you run your nail across it, are you able to detect anything?
 

David

B&B’s Champion Corn Shucker
The small white fissures inside and above the brown areas are very common among translucent Arks, and are generally harmless. The black line is less common from my experience. It’s most likely just a mineral line and should be innocuous, but there is a good chance the stone is weaker along that line. This is just part of the game when dealing with natural stones; nature isn’t perfect.

If you have any doubts about it I would just send it back. It shouldn’t be hard to find a replacement.
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
Thanks, gentlemen.

Looks awful uniform to be a crack...almost like it was something done with assistance of a straightedge.
Or am I looking at the wrong image?

The crack if it is a crack is very uniform.

The black line is less common from my experience. It’s most likely just a mineral line and should be innocuous, but there is a good chance the stone is weaker along that line...If you have any doubts about it I would just send it back. It shouldn’t be hard to find a replacement.

I suppose there's no way for me to determine if it's a innocuous mineral line or a crack?

I really don't know what to do here, but I have a choice to make.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 

David

B&B’s Champion Corn Shucker
I suppose there's no way for me to determine if it's a innocuous mineral line or a crack?
If you have a Loupe use it to see if the line is tight. You can also take a needle and see if you can make it catch in the line.

From your pictures it looks to be tight and most likely won’t be an issue, but don’t take my word for it.
 
EDIT; @Chan Eil Whiskers
I'd say from looking at it, that it's almost certainly a crack. Never seen a line like that which wasn't a crack, they tend to be dead straight in my experience, though some are non-invasive. Without feeling it I cannot say...
Test it. If you can feel it with a thumbnail, and / or if it catches the end of a thin knife or needle going back and forth across it at different angles, then it's a crack.
I've had many many many such stones, with cracks and holes, and once treated they are generally fine, though you have to use some care.
I really don't think just lapping is the answer. Lapping brittle stones - which trans Arks are to an extent - with cracks in them you can end up with two or more stones.
If it were a J-nat or Thuri or slate etc I would do what I always do: Make sure it's well lacquered, dig the line out, creating a small "trench", with a fine file tip & ruler, chamfer the edges of the new line created (see pic). You have to be careful with certain strokes, but if the stone is worth it... Even the stone in the picture - not the worst "trenched" stone I've ever had, I've had some that looked like Subway maps - was eventually cut up for slurry stones.
But, a Trans Ark..? I'd be a bit more leery of doing that, though I might give it a go. Lacquering can work wonders for a stone's stability, but I don't know how that would effect a trans Ark. I doubt that - like an Thuri or J-nat - it would soak in a wee bit and layer upon layer create the same kind of 'shell'. Arks are pretty brittle. If it's translucent, you should be able to shine a light through and see how deep it goes.
Personally, I'd ask for my money back and cut my losses. Or, I'd ask for a large partial refund.
thuri final.png
 
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Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
to my untrained eye it looks like they butted two stones together and epoxied them or something...ive seen that happen when someone dropped their coticle. As i said though, my eye is untrained. if you run your nail across it, are you able to detect anything?

If they butted two stones together and epoxied them or something they did a damn good job of it.

I detect nothing with my fingernail or feel. I have a magnifying glass and see nothing to help me. I don't have a strong loupe or microscope here at the office (but do at home).

I don't have a true straight edge here, but I have fairly decent straight edges. The line of the crack or whatever it is looks at straight as straight can be to me visually and compared with the available edges.

I am unsure of what I'm looking at. If it is a crack it is amazingly straight. If it's a mineral line, same.

Somebody is likely to know. I know how smart and skilled and experienced with stones this group is.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 
Like I said above, I can't say 100% it's a crack...
but I'd say 97.5% it is. They tend to be straight like that, and I've never seen a mineral inclusion that looked like that.
I doubt anyone, without seeing / feeling it, will be able to shed much more light on that.
They can be non-invasive or only skin deep. In my experience, if you cannot catch it with a pin, then your edge won't suffer.
Still, I'd ask for a partial refund.
 
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I have no idea.
Is the line on all four sides? Or only 3?

Could it be from a pencil?
Can you "erase" the line with high grit sanding paper like 800# on the side?
 

timwcic

"Look what I found"
Somebody is likely to know. I know how smart and skilled and experienced with stones this group is.

You already have had some knowledgeable and skilled stonemisters chime in. If you can not feel it with your fingernail, that is a plus. The stone looks to only be 1/2 inch thick, that is a con. Novaculite is funny, very strong and resilient, but can crack just by looking at it. This is a Trans stone of mine, well over 100 years from the mine. Has a fault that looks similar to your situation. Has never been a problem but is 1 inch thick. You my want to return and cut your losses but that will be your decision

EA09BC93-ED5C-48B4-924A-25BEAEB91DC1.jpeg
 

David

B&B’s Champion Corn Shucker
I have seen lots of mineral lines that look like that among various natural stones. They aren’t as common with translucent arks, but they do occur.

My advice is to send it back and find another, but my opinion is that it is harmless and most likely will never be a problem.

I have a lot of natural stones, and very few, if any are perfect. To me it just adds character.
 
Like Dcaddo said, nature is not perfect. I would do what Lord Fatboy said, use a pin and if doesn't grab, use it. Just me but if it didn't grab I would just keep it and use it.


Mike
 
I have seen lots of mineral lines that look like that among various natural stones. They aren’t as common with translucent arks, but they do occur.

My advice is to send it back and find another, but my opinion is that it is harmless and most likely will never be a problem.

I have a lot of natural stones, and very few, if any are perfect. To me it just adds character.
+1
No stone left behind.
 

Esox

I didnt know
Staff member
If they butted two stones together and epoxied them or something they did a damn good job of it.

It can be done but it takes a very special expert to do it and for the cost of that stone it wouldnt be worth it.

My mother has a large, maybe 6 foot long by 18" wide, custom made, beveled edged, marble topped coffee table made in the 1970's. It cost $3500 back then. 'Somehow' that table got knocked over one day and about a 1 foot long part of one end snapped off as it hit the floor. The line was perfectly straight where it broke and boy, there was hell to pay! lol.

It was repaired by an old Italian marble tile guy here in town and to this day you cannot see where it was broken. Going to that level with a stone of that size, I doubt would be worth the work.

It could be a mineral line, I didnt think of that. If it is you shouldnt feel it when you use it. I'd try it with a razor that doesnt have a finished edge and see if you can feel it if you want to keep it.
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
The crack or whatever it is goes all the way around the stone (all four sides). Straight everywhere.

I ran a small safety pin and the blade of a DE over the crack and couldn't get either to catch at all.

I shined the flashlight of my iPhone through the stone which is translucent. At the crack or whatever the light shines through but it is brighter along the line than anywhere else; the crack or whatever is less opaque (not sure that's the right term)?

I had a friend (smart but not knowledgeable about stones) look at it. We agreed it is one of three things.
  1. a mineral inclusion (and the mineral allows light to pass more than the stone)
  2. two glued together stones (and the glue allows light to pass more than the stone)
  3. a very straight crack
Not saying either of us know anything. I think option #2 above is very remote.

I very much appreciate everyone's help with this including any further opinions, comments, and advice.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 
It can be done but it takes a very special expert to do it and for the cost of that stone it wouldnt be worth it.

My mother has a large, maybe 6 foot long by 18" wide, custom made, beveled edged, marble topped coffee table made in the 1970's. It cost $3500 back then. 'Somehow' that table got knocked over one day and about a 1 foot long part of one end snapped off as it hit the floor. The line was perfectly straight where it broke and boy, there was hell to pay! lol.

It was repaired by an old Italian marble tile guy here in town and to this day you cannot see where it was broken. Going to that level with a stone of that size, I doubt would be worth the work.

It could be a mineral line, I didnt think of that. If it is you shouldnt feel it when you use it. I'd try it with a razor that doesnt have a finished edge and see if you can feel it if you want to keep it.

Confess - were you the "somehow"? [emoji12]
 
I'm with David's (Dcaddo's) opinion on this. I have a trans Ark from Dan's that I got for cheap a long while back after a discussion with Kim on the telephone, who was aware of my wanting to hones straight razors with it. It was a one of their "not perfect but perfectly suitable for use" lines. Attached is a pic of it. The diagonal lines as shown are quite innocuous and there is another one, oriented in the same direction in one corner. From this, I've always taken them to be natural occurrences.

Trans-Ark-with-diagonal-lines.jpg
 
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