Is this sanitary

[English]

I am more concerned about using a new straight than a vintage straight.

New straights are often wrapped in oil paper and put in a sealed box. I don't believe they have been sterilised. But the wrapping looks good.

Any vintage razor I have handled will have had a full surface layer of metal removed and it will have been dipped in boiling water. The handles will have been surface polished and scrubbed with soap and water.

Boiling water does not harm the razor , the metal or the edge. It will harm plastic handles, but you don't shave with them.

I don't wish to alarm you guys but I thought hospitals were using disposable plastic instruments wherever possible because they don't trust autoclaving to always work or be used properly.

I think you are more at risk falling over in your bathroom and killing yourself than catching a killer bug from your razor.

This said reasonable precautions make sense.

My straight razors get dipped in boiling water before sale.

Do you dip your DE blades before use? I doubt it. But I would suggest that they are just as likely to be covered in bugs as any other metal instrument.

 

[BEAR DEN]

I use Marvcide which I recommend...however I would only soak the blade part or make darn sure that you only soak it for 10 minutes. I soaked a DD scales and all... and fell asleep. It left a unique AV blule stain on the scales. The blue stain did come off but it required additional work that was not needed if I had just paid attention to the clock...

 

[SavantStrike]

and this is critical, since the processes are exponential.
one thing is for sure - you can butter your toast right after you autoclave a razor, but shaving is not advisable.


So why use the 'probably will work' then?
Since the autoclave is the only thing that gives you a peace of mind, I assume you have read the 'label' of what it kills but I would submit that the important question is what it doesn't kill. I hope you're comfortable with those.


not quite true


and the biggest risk of all - the plain old living...


at the end of the day it seems to be just cost/benefit analysis. if somebody has an easy access to an autoclave and are comfortable with subjecting their razors to that treatment they can do that. the vast majority of people don't have such access and will use something easier, or nothing at all.

Lol you quoted the part where I said I wasn't an expert but forgot to quote the part where I said I was certain with even limited knowledge that autoclaving a straight was a no no.

You are right HIV dies off rather quickly as do some other pathogens - that's not my point. There are things out there that do not die of quickly and just putting out in the sun does not kill them. There is not a responsible dentist, physician, or other medical health care professional that would perform any procedure on you with a piece of equipment that has not be properly sterilized.

For example a scalpel has a handle and a disposable blade. That handle is retained and run through the autoclave. Why would that be done? Why not just lay it out in the sun for a couple of hours? If my doctor did that, there would be no way I would let them work on me, and their license to practice medicine would be jerked away it would make your head spin. What is the difference between the handle of a scalpel a vintage razor? Both hold disposable blades and neither of them actually cut hard or soft tissue. But the medical community does sterilize the scalpel handle prior to its next use.

We are taking a piece of equipment that has come in contact with blood and other pathogens an putting them on our face, and as careful as we are we still get cuts, nicks, and weepers. Vintage razor that are cleaned properly with Barbicide will "probably" be safe for use. BUT and this is a BIG BUT - I have not read the label of Barbicide to know for sure what pathogens it will disinfect or sanitize.

Everyone has a choice as to what steps they will take to safeguard themselves. In my opinion there are risks, minor or major, to using a vintage razor. I am going to practice the most stringent infection control measures I can when given a choice. Sterilization in an autoclave destroys all microorganisms, including bacterial spores. High level disinfection can destroy all microorganisms but not necessarily high numbers of bacterial spores. please see : http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5217a4.htm

You can chose what measures you will personally take, but I think it important that if someone asks a question about safety the answer should give a response on something based on more than gut feelings. While I am not a doctor, it does not take one to look at what the CDC recommends and take their advice.

Like I said I will take the most stringent safety precautions for my personal health. Further, if I ever should sell or give a vintage razor to someone else I would have it run in an autoclave and given in sterile condition.

There's no argument in my mind that you are 100 percent correct in stating that simply using the sun is not enough protection. I also completely agree with you that it is incredibly important to sterilize straights before taking them for their first joy ride. I don't remember the study, but I read somewhere that a study was conducted in a Turkish barber shop to see how sanitary the conditions were. Several straights in the barber shop tested positive for HIV .

Protecting against these dangers is of the utmost importance, but the autoclave is overkill and is potentially (almost certainly) detrimental to the performance of the blade. Barbicide costs all of 15 bucks delivered and makes a good addition to the normal "get the soap scum off" routine.

I read the directions on my bottle of "Hospital" grade Barbicide (anti rust formula). It boldly states in all caps that it "kills HIV-1, HBV and HCV on pre-cleaned environmental surfaces/objects previously soiled with blood and body fluids." That's AIDS, Hep B, and Hep C right there. Furthermore quick research shows that it will kill MRSA and King Research is going through the necessary channels to legally claim this.

Barbicide kills just about anything living. While I am sure there are some horrendous diseases it won't protect against, I am equally sure my chance of contracting these horrible diseases is lower than the chance of getting struck by lightning or winning the lottery. In the application it is intended for, Barbicide will kill the nasties that might be lurking on a straight razor.

The smart decision with a vintage straight is to get it reasonably clean, and then give it a bath in barbicide before it touches anything porous (hones, strops, or human skin). If you want to get crazy about it then also be sure to use barbicide on any blade that was honed by someone else as you don't know how clean they kept their hones and strops. Beyond that it's just hysteria.

I also have to say that there are some cases in which this routine needs to be switched up. I frequently just give scales a bath in 91 percent isopropyl alcohol and only bathe the blade in barbicide. The alcohol is in it's own sealed ziploc container and unless I'm worried about germs breeding in the alcohol, I'm not worried about it losing it's effectiveness. If Ichange it once every year or so it should be fine (although I don't have a clinical study to prove this). It is important to note that this is not the case with Barbicide, and it needs to be changed more frequently. How frequently cleaning solutions need to be changed is probably also proportional to how many objects pass through the jar in a day .

Both my initial research and my personal experience have shown me that a little caution goes a long way towards protecting my personal health, but going overboard just ruins things. The first blade I tried to soak for longer than directed in Barbicide ended up fine, but the scales smelled for a while afterward (around a month or two). I'm glad I didn't try putting it in an autoclave. I would have trashed the scales rather than tarnish them, and the blade would probably have been trashed too.

For anyone squeamish about using "only" Barbicide and/or other disinfectants to clean a 100 year old straight, perhaps he or she should simply put the straight on a shelf to be looked at. Going and wrecking it due to paranoia is a sad end to a beautiful piece of history that is irreplaceable.

 

[aodenkou]

and this is critical, since the processes are exponential.
one thing is for sure - you can butter your toast right after you autoclave a razor, but shaving is not advisable.


So why use the 'probably will work' then?
Since the autoclave is the only thing that gives you a peace of mind, I assume you have read the 'label' of what it kills but I would submit that the important question is what it doesn't kill. I hope you're comfortable with those.


not quite true

If you would - what part is not true? I quote from the CDC Sterilization in an autoclave destroys all microorganisms, including bacterial spores. High level disinfection can destroy all microorganisms but not necessarily high numbers of bacterial spores. please see : http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5217a4.htm

I don't want to quibble but I should think if it came down to it the CDC's statement could be taken as close to "truth" as one could get.

I do stand guilty of one fault, when I have been posting I have been thinking in terms of DE vintage razors. I do not have any experience with straights, so I have no idea if the scales could be damaged from an autoclave.



and the biggest risk of all - the plain old living...

at the end of the day it seems to be just cost/benefit analysis. if somebody has an easy access to an autoclave and are comfortable with subjecting their razors to that treatment they can do that. the vast majority of people don't have such access and will use something easier, or nothing at all.

You are right the vast majority of people do not have access to an autoclave, but I would be willing to bet you that if you asked your family dentist if they would run your DE razor through the autoclave and you explained your reason they would do it for you.

 

[krissy]

See if you can find a Sally Beauty Supply store nearby.

Oh wow do you know there is one in Grand Forks, ND...... I mean this never happens to me. Someone suggests where to buy something and to find one local to me is next to impossible...... And it's close to walmart, I can find that !!!

Next trip to Grand Forks baby look out, i'm making a trip to Sally's !!! ok not quite sure when that will be but sounds like a good excuse for a road trip. (it's about 140 miles from here) and to take my daughters tenor sax in for repair..... gotta do that soon.....

 

[gugi]

You are right the vast majority of people do not have access to an autoclave, but I would be willing to bet you that if you asked your family dentist if they would run your DE razor through the autoclave and you explained your reason they would do it for you.

Well, I still think your advice is bad because of the high cost/benefit factor. I don't think you shave with a straight razor, or you'd have discovered first hand how bad your proposition is.

So let me spell it out then

The problem with autoclave is not the tempering, but that the razor is completely dull after such treatments. The autoclave works by using hot steam and that dulls the razor in no time by accelerating the rust process.

So you have to hone your razor after autoclaving, and hopefully you've autoclaved your hone as well.

But it gets even more ridiculous than this - how would you get around the microorganisms living on your strop? Perhaps you just don't strop and rehone your freshly autoclaved razor on your autoclaved hone before every shave. This is pretty much the only treatment that is consistent with such level of paranoia, and the drawbacks are (1) too much work (2) shaving with a razor that's duller than it can be (lack of stropping).

I mean some people like to wear tin foil hats. I'm sure that their brains are a lot more protected from the damaging effect of EM radiation than not wearing tin foil, but not even close to the protection that a lead hat can provide.

 

[Bacchus]

Quit your bickering people, I have a solution...

Lets just start sending our razors under 100 RADS of radiation!
There, everything on the razor is dead


Remember folks, it's a good idea because Bacchus said so!

 

[SavantStrike]

Quit your bickering people, I have a solution...

Lets just start sending our razors under 100 RADS of radiation!
There, everything on the razor is dead


Remember folks, it's a good idea because Bacchus said so!

Irradiated blades! Of course!

I wonder if that's what the "Radium" razors I have seen occasionally are. A built in source .

 

[Emmett]

Irradiated blades! Of course!

I wonder if that's what the "Radium" razors I have seen occasionally are. A built in source .

Radiation poisoning DOES cause your hair to fall out...shave with one and you'll never have to shave again!

 

[PolsBirthday]

For example a scalpel has a handle and a disposable blade. That handle is retained and run through the autoclave. Why would that be done? Why not just lay it out in the sun for a couple of hours? If my doctor did that, there would be no way I would let them work on me, and their license to practice medicine would be jerked away it would make your head spin. What is the difference between the handle of a scalpel a vintage razor? Both hold disposable blades and neither of them actually cut hard or soft tissue. But the medical community does sterilize the scalpel handle prior to its next use.

Since we're being picky and all, most vintage straights do not house disposable blades. Also, the main purpose of the sterilization of medical equipment, such as a scalpel, is not to protect against serious diseases, but to clear the item from all foreign articles and bacteria, even seemingly harmless ones. This is because ANYTHING that comes in contact with your blood and tissues poses a risk for infection.

You run a similar risk of infection whether you cut yourself with a razor that has been sitting in the sun for a few hours, as you might with an autoclaved razor that is covered with tiny leather fibers from your strop.