Is there such a thing as being too honest?

[onotoman]

I recently won a beat up boxed Aristocrat on Ebay for $35. As I needed the razor to be shipped to the UK and have previously been stung for VAT Tax from HM Revenue and Customs, I requested that it would be a great favour if the seller would mark the customs label as 'old shaver' or similar and state the value as below $30 (this is the threshold before tax is applied)

Now it' not even the tax that's the issue - on this package it amounted to $4 BUT Royal Mail stick as $16 'handling fee' on there too!

The seller got back and said that he 'never lies on customs slips' OK, we all have principles and if I'd asked to mark a $500 item as $29 then I'd agree that this is lies, but $6 on an old razor?

Most sellers, I have to admit, are more accommodating and I'm sure in the great scheme of things a little white lie to help a fellow ebayer wouldn't go down as a black mark. HM Customs get plenty of revenue without charging VAT on something that didn't even have VAT on it when it was new! The resulting delay in delivery also amounts to about a week extra.

Was this an unreasonable request from me?

 

[Unknownsoldier]

I don't think so.....

Tom

 

[chainfire]

Definitely not unreasonable. Esp. in a case where the value is subjective (yes the end auction "price" was $35, but the actual "value" can fluxuate completey, based on auction results). As you said, it's not like you're asking them to put an uber expensive item down as super cheap to avoid taxes, leaving them in the lurch if it's lost.

I'd take the heat from ebay and refuse to pay.

 

[Baloosh]

The age old ethics question:

"You know the whereabouts of a family of Jews hiding from the Nazis. A Nazi patrol comes up to you and asks where they are."

What do you say?

 

[ironbrewer]

The age old ethics question:

"You know the whereabouts of a family of Jews hiding from the Nazis. A Nazi patrol comes up to you and asks where they are."

What do you say?

Who??

 

[Unknownsoldier]

"Over there third door on the left, knock three times......."
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Then run like hell when they realise you've sent them to the local Charcuterie

 

[onotoman]

If I found a wallet with £100 and a name/address, I'd take it back to the owner without hesitation.

If the Tax Man undercharges me by £100 and I could guarantee getting away with it, well, that's a different story entirely.

As I say, there's honest and honest...

 

[Wil Dorenbos]

I recently won a beat up boxed Aristocrat on Ebay for $35. As I needed the razor to be shipped to the UK and have previously been stung for VAT Tax from HM Revenue and Customs, I requested that it would be a great favour if the seller would mark the customs label as 'old shaver' or similar and state the value as below $30 (this is the threshold before tax is applied)

Now it' not even the tax that's the issue - on this package it amounted to $4 BUT Royal Mail stick as $16 'handling fee' on there too!

The seller got back and said that he 'never lies on customs slips' OK, we all have principles and if I'd asked to mark a $500 item as $29 then I'd agree that this is lies, but $6 on an old razor?

Most sellers, I have to admit, are more accommodating and I'm sure in the great scheme of things a little white lie to help a fellow ebayer wouldn't go down as a black mark. HM Customs get plenty of revenue without charging VAT on something that didn't even have VAT on it when it was new! The resulting delay in delivery also amounts to about a week extra.

Was this an unreasonable request from me?

I guess there are two items here: can you ask such a question and is the seller obliged to comply? The first question I will leave to others, at the second one I would say : no.

FWIW import-VAT is calculated over the invoice value (or what you have paid for it) plus the cost of shipping. But indeed the handling fee for customs arrangements is a real pain in the neck.

 

[onotoman]

I know the seller isn't obliged to comply, but it would have been a nice gesture if he had and would have saved me a lot of hassle. After all, it was only $6 and as chainfire says the value is entirely subjective. $4 tax and $16 handling!

I guess there are two items here: can you ask such a question and is the seller obliged to comply? The first question I will leave to others, at the second one I would say : no.

FWIW import-VAT is calculated over the invoice value (or what you have paid for it) plus the cost of shipping. But indeed the handling fee for customs arrangements is a real pain in the neck.

 

[WhosYerBob]

Gotta disagree on this one as I was stung twice as an eBay seller trying to "be nice" to buyers. Both times it was caught by Canadian Customs and both times the gear was refused at the border and returned to me, the second time with a warning not to do it a third time. Huge mess both times, angry buyer in the end and a lot of money out of my pocket.

That's one of the many reasons I only ship CONUS these days. Too many problems otherwise.

 

[Baloosh]

Who??

Anyone.

... unless you're saying that would be your response to the Nazis -- in which case, we know where you stand regarding "such a thing as too honest."

 

[Sue]

I have been asked many times to alter the customs docs, I won't and have lost sales because I won't. A few buyers are not happy with me and let me know in very understandable comments by email. That makes me feel bad when it's then personal. I'm then a _ _ _ ch.

This is a completly different situation I'll never forget but is about lying. Years ago, I was sitting at a red light in the left hand turn lane. The light turned green for me but was still red for those going straight. An adult woman flew by me in the right lane thru the red and totalled a car with two teen boys. I gave my information as a witness.

Later her attorney called me on more than one occasion. Didn't I see the teen boys running the light? No. Didn't I see the teens running the light? NO. The light turned while she was in the intersection, didn't it? No. He was hell bent to hang it on these boys.

When is a lie not a lie?

The official rule is the only time you can lie is when asked;
'honey, does this outfit make my butt look big?'
Sue

 

[trewornan]

You can ask someone to do something a little dishonest for you but if they say no then that's fair enough and you shouldn't feel aggrieved. It's got to be their decision.

Personally I'd have typed out an invoice for $25 for the razor and $10 cleaning and sanitization services then put $25 on the customs form - hard to prove anything about that.

 

[ironbrewer]

Anyone.

... unless you're saying that would be your response to the Nazis -- in which case, we know where you stand regarding "such a thing as too honest."

I thought it was pretty obvious that it would be what I would say to the nazi's. I wouldn't even have to think about it in that situation. It is the morally correct thing to do.

 

[Bertilak]

Was this an unreasonable request from me?

Not exactly, but if you have a problem with your country's taxation the best way to deal with it is through the political process.

That being said and me being from the ex-colony of America it's hard not to accept some civil disobedience in the taxation area!

But you should not expect others to fight your battles for you. Ask but don't be offended if someone doesn't feel that's his fish to fry. (Help me -- I need a better metaphor! Tree to bark up?)

Helping you with that request is more than a nice gesture -- it is a commitment to accept the consequences.

 

[Unknownsoldier]

Not exactly, but if you have a problem with your country's taxation the best way to deal with it is through the political process.

Thats assuming that the political process is fair and unbiased, in Britain it isn't, Soviet Russia was slightly easier on people getting involved in politics, just check out the government petitions site for the UK, the most meaningless and purile petitions are allowed yet any that question the powers that be are generally ruled to be "defamatory or possibly liabellous" and rejected..... So changing our laws on taxation, there's a bigger chance of me returning to Cartridges!

Tom

 

[onotoman]

It's not even the tax that gets my goat it's the Royal Mail 'Handling Charge'

On balance, most people are pretty accommodating and are happy to accept the consequences, 1 in 100 aren't and of course, I accept their views.

UK Political process? It would never solve anything in a month of Sundays.

Best wishes

Dave

Not exactly, but if you have a problem with your country's taxation the best way to deal with it is through the political process.

That being said and me being from the ex-colony of America it's hard not to accept some civil disobedience in the taxation area!

But you should not expect others to fight your battles for you. Ask but don't be offended if someone doesn't feel that's his fish to fry. (Help me -- I need a better metaphor! Tree to bark up?)

Helping you with that request is more than a nice gesture -- it is a commitment to accept the consequences.

 

[onotoman]

Indeed Tom,

It would be easier to shave with a shovel than get something decent and reasonable passed by any of our political lot.

Thats assuming that the political process is fair and unbiased, in Britain it isn't, Soviet Russia was slightly easier on people getting involved in politics, just check out the government petitions site for the UK, the most meaningless and purile petitions are allowed yet any that question the powers that be are generally ruled to be "defamatory or possibly liabellous" and rejected..... So changing our laws on taxation, there's a bigger chance of me returning to Cartridges!

Tom

 

[onotoman]

Absolutely, 100% agree.

You can ask someone to do something a little dishonest for you but if they say no then that's fair enough and you shouldn't feel aggrieved. It's got to be their decision.

Personally I'd have typed out an invoice for $25 for the razor and $10 cleaning and sanitization services then put $25 on the customs form - hard to prove anything about that.

 

[Unknownsoldier]

+1 on the handling charge, someone sent me a letter the other day and the stamp was a small instead of a large, not only did I have to pay the extra, but I got charged a quid on top! They seem to screw you whatever way you look, and then wonder why the public don't support them when they ask for help during a strike.......

Tom