Is the Simpson 58 Best Badger a good all rounder ?

[StellaNova]

@Multum in parvo & @SharpieB What size Zenith brush did you get ? And from where ?
The ones I have seen on the Gentle Shave web site are all quite large >27mm and I don't know how that affects performance.

 

[Multum in parvo]

@Multum in parvo & @SharpieB What size Zenith brush did you get ? And from where ?
The ones I have seen on the Gentle Shave web site are all quite large >27mm and I don't know how that affects performance.

I have a 506 AK it’s their 27mm knot, as it doesn’t bloom that much and has good backbone it is very versatile.

 

[Multum in parvo]

 

[SharpieB]

@Multum in parvo & @SharpieB What size Zenith brush did you get ? And from where ?
The ones I have seen on the Gentle Shave web site are all quite large >27mm and I don't know how that affects performance.

This one. Great brush.

Brocha de afeitar ZENITH Manchurian mango en resina color márfil 505AK Manchu

Esta brocha de afeitar monta un pelo Manchurian 28 mm de altísima calidad.El pelo es ligeramente mas grueso que el tejón silvertip pero mas suaveMango realizado en resina de color márfilAltura del mango: 51mmNudo: 28 mmHecho en Italia

www.yourshaving.com

 

[StellaNova]

I had a very enjoyable shave with my Simpsons 57 this AM!! It is just about perfect for me!

I face lather soaps and tend toward smaller/mid-sized brushes. The 58 should be a fine addition!

The size difference is 2-3mm between the two, do you know what effect that has ?
I keep comparing to my cheap badger brush which is about 22mm diameter/loft +/- 55mm.

Obviously the quality of the hair will make a big difference, but what difference does 2mm make ?

 

[APBinNCA]

Thanks.
I see the Keyhole 3 is the same diameter as the 56, but 5mm longer, so I imagine it has less backbone than the 50's brushes ?
The dimensions of these brushes are all fairly close, so it's hard to judge what the effect of an extra mm or two will have without actually using them all.
What don't you like about the Keyhole 3 ?

Mine has 52mm loft if that helps. I don't find it lacking backbone, but wouldn't consider it rigid. Resistant to flop would be accurate, that part I like. I like the length of the grip for bowl lathering.

What I don't like is that it is a lather hog, it vacuums up a lot of lather and won't release it without a squeeze. I base my loading on the ability to do 3 passes without having to squeeze, with my normal loading that only gives me 2. Not the end of the world, but I have brushes that release better. A minor gripe, the width is a bit wider than my preference. Take all this as nit picking as I wouldn't notice this without other brushes to compare. And the fact that this thing still sells for more than 100 because it is Simpsons. For what I paid, the performance matches.

 

[EclipseRedRing]

The size difference is 2-3mm between the two, do you know what effect that has ?
I keep comparing to my cheap badger brush which is about 22mm diameter/loft +/- 55mm.

Obviously the quality of the hair will make a big difference, but what difference does 2mm make ?

Most brushes these days, especially for face lathering, have a loft of 'roughly' twice the knot size plus or minus a few mm, for example a Duke 3 has a 23mm knot with a 46mm loft . I would expect a 22mm knot with a loft of 55mm to be quite floppy. At the end of the day, you can make decent lather with any brush unless it is terrible. I could make the same lather with your Tweezerman brush as I can with my Simpson Manchurian and buying an expensive brush will not suddenly improve your lather. The difference for me is that I specifically enjoy the way Simpson brushes feel on my face and I value the heritage and history of the Simpson brand and the fact that the brushes are made by hand, by craftsmen and women in my own country, who are paid a fair wage and who receive decent employment benefits that I would want for myself. I am prepared to pay for that - but it does not improve the quality of the lather or of the finished shave.

 

[SharpieB]

The size difference is 2-3mm between the two, do you know what effect that has ?
I keep comparing to my cheap badger brush which is about 22mm diameter/loft +/- 55mm.

Obviously the quality of the hair will make a big difference, but what difference does 2mm make ?

Just measured my Zenith and it is 29x51mm

 

[SterFry]

One of the things that kind of threw me off when I first began frequenting B&B was the whole face/bowl and soap/cream lathering brush proclamation.

Any brush can lather any medium on any surface.

It took me a while to zero in on the types of brushes I like because I placed faith into the school of though that only dense, short lofted scrubby knots are good at face lathering. I like long handled floppy-ish brushes that aren't too dense for face lathering and it wouldn't have taken so long to figure that out had I disregarded those types of classifications from the get go.

All brushes are "all around" brushes.

 

[Multum in parvo]

I come from bowl lathering (with a boar) only and dabble now with face lathering as well. The overlap of brushes that can do both well is great but not 100%.

For instance to bowl lather a scoop of croap with a floppy fully broken-in boar always leaves residue on the bottom of my bowl that isn’t turned into lather. On the other hand many people love their Chubbies but I was overwhelmed with the measly 26mm Yaqi Moka Express when I attempted to face lather.

Currently the old standard 22/24mm 1:2 ratio brushes seem to work best for me. Boars and a couple of badgers like the Zenith above are the exception where a bigger knot works fine as well.

 

[njpaddy]

I had a 56 some 10 years ago. It was a great brush but, I had so many brushes at the time, I gave it to my favorite sister-in-law, along with a Slim DE, for her husband who wanted to try wetshaving. I've had 8 Simpsons and that was one of my favorites.

 

[StellaNova]

Most brushes these days, especially for face lathering, have a loft of 'roughly' twice the knot size plus or minus a few mm, for example a Duke 3 has a 23mm knot with a 46mm loft . I would expect a 22mm knot with a loft of 55mm to be quite floppy. At the end of the day, you can make decent lather with any brush unless it is terrible. I could make the same lather with your Tweezerman brush as I can with my Simpson Manchurian and buying an expensive brush will not suddenly improve your lather. The difference for me is that I specifically enjoy the way Simpson brushes feel on my face and I value the heritage and history of the Simpson brand and the fact that the brushes are made by hand, by craftsmen and women in my own country, who are paid a fair wage and who receive decent employment benefits that I would want for myself. I am prepared to pay for that - but it does not improve the quality of the lather or of the finished shave.

Oops I made a mistake with the dimensions, the Tweezerman's loft is closer to 52mm, but it is still quite floppy. I didn't like it at first because of that. To put things in perspective, I wore the previous (same model) one down to about 40mm of it's loft. It is concave on top now, so when I switched to the newer one, it felt quite unwieldy. I have been using it (the "new" one) now for about 6 or 7 years now and I have gotten used to it.
I can produce acceptable lather with it and the Semogue 1520 which incidentally is also on the floppy side. I am quite sure, however, that the Tweezerman's days are numbered and while I still have the Semogue to fall back on, I do favour the badger brush. Even though it is quite prickly.

And there is that sale on at the moment...

 

[StellaNova]

Just measured my Zenith and it is 29x51mm

That is quite big.
I was wondering if the 24mm of the Simpson 58 might be too big, but these Zenith brushes take it to the next level.
And they seem to be quite well liked.

 

[StellaNova]

One of the things that kind of threw me off when I first began frequenting B&B was the whole face/bowl and soap/cream lathering brush proclamation.

Any brush can lather any medium on any surface.

It took me a while to zero in on the types of brushes I like because I placed faith into the school of though that only dense, short lofted scrubby knots are good at face lathering. I like long handled floppy-ish brushes that aren't too dense for face lathering and it wouldn't have taken so long to figure that out had I disregarded those types of classifications from the get go.

All brushes are "all around" brushes.

Thank you for your insight.
And after looking at some of the other recommendations, I see that the Simpson 50's are pretty much average in terms of size and general proportions.
Now, I have seen how some people talk about flow through of lather being better on some brushes than others. To what can that be attributed ?
Thanks.

 

[SharpieB]

That is quite big.
I was wondering if the 24mm of the Simpson 58 might be too big, but these Zenith brushes take it to the next level.
And they seem to be quite well liked.

Not as big as you would expect in person Suprisingly.

 

[StellaNova]

I come from bowl lathering (with a boar) only and dabble now with face lathering as well. The overlap of brushes that can do both well is great but not 100%.

For instance to bowl lather a scoop of croap with a floppy fully broken-in boar always leaves residue on the bottom of my bowl that isn’t turned into lather. On the other hand many people love their Chubbies but I was overwhelmed with the measly 26mm Yaqi Moka Express when I attempted to face lather.

Currently the old standard 22/24mm 1:2 ratio brushes seem to work best for me. Boars and a couple of badgers like the Zenith above are the exception where a bigger knot works fine as well.

Those Zeniths definitely look interesting, but I am not sure if I am ready to venture into that size category. I am inclined, at the moment, to not go past 24mm diameter.

 

[StellaNova]

Not as big as you would expect in person Suprisingly.

I took my vernier caliper to my current brushes and then tried to compare them to the larger brushes measurements and yes, it doesn't seem like much.
But, as they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating...

 

[Multum in parvo]

Those Zeniths definitely look interesting, but I am not sure if I am ready to venture into that size category. I am inclined, at the moment, to not go past 24mm diameter.

I have a Captain 2 in Best (24/51) that I’m not totally happy with but maybe I have to spend more time with it. Problem for me is lack of backbone and scrub.

The Eagle G3 in Pure (24/49) is an absolute treat if you want to feel the brush in your face but maybe not something for every day.

The Duke 3 Manchurian (23/46) is great but expensive.

The 58 has a knot of 23/48 and is a touch pricy compared to a Commodore X3 with a 24/46 knot.

Going by my liking for backbone and scrub I would go with the Commodore if asked. If you want a more cloudlike feeling then the higher lofted knot is better. Caveat, as said above the hair grade itself is also variable and ranges from close to Pure to close to Super…

 

[SterFry]

Flow through is how well a brush releases lather from the fibers onto your face. Some brushes "hog" lather. Density is probably the main factor that reduces flow through and is the main reason I don't prefer excessively dense brushes personally. Soaking natural hair brushes for sufficient durations of time before use will help considerably, though any natural hair brush will hog lather to some degree regardless which is why you have to load more soap with naturals.

 

[StellaNova]

I have a Captain 2 in Best (24/51) that I’m not totally happy with but maybe I have to spend more time with it. Problem for me is lack of backbone and scrub.

The Eagle G3 in Pure (24/49) is an absolute treat if you want to feel the brush in your face but maybe not something for every day.

The Duke 3 Manchurian (23/46) is great but expensive.

The 58 has a knot of 23/48 and is a touch pricy compared to a Commodore X3 with a 24/46 knot.

Going by my liking for backbone and scrub I would go with the Commodore if asked. If you want a more cloudlike feeling then the higher lofted knot is better. Caveat, as said above the hair grade itself is also variable and ranges from close to Pure to close to Super…

Thanks for the info.