What's new

Is my (brand new) Dovo Bismark razor rusting?

Forgive me - my first straight…not sure what this is, but it looks like rust on the Bismark etching. Razor is brand new purchased from a reputable dealer recommended here (will see what you all say and reach out to them tomorrow if appropriate).

Today was my second shave with it. First shave I stropped it, shaved, rinsed with water on a towel without touching blade, stropped again, left open to dry.

Today went to strop it and noticed this.

Pic is best I could do quickly, can take a better one later with a real dslr.

Any ideas/suggestions?

thanks!
 

Attachments

  • CC69E808-1869-4E0D-8E92-9BD195B45871.jpeg
    CC69E808-1869-4E0D-8E92-9BD195B45871.jpeg
    6.1 MB · Views: 150
At a glance, it looks like, possibly, moisture got under the gold wash and is causing oxidation.
Hard to say conclusively from that pic though, but that's my first impression.
 
Forgive me - my first straight…not sure what this is, but it looks like rust on the Bismark etching. Razor is brand new purchased from a reputable dealer recommended here (will see what you all say and reach out to them tomorrow if appropriate).

Today was my second shave with it. First shave I stropped it, shaved, rinsed with water on a towel without touching blade, stropped again, left open to dry.

Today went to strop it and noticed this.

Pic is best I could do quickly, can take a better one later with a real dslr.

Any ideas/suggestions?

thanks!
I hope you dried it very well with a towel before you left the blade open to air dry further.
 
Dovo are not renowned for their QC, although some say that their Bismarcks are one of their better SR's.

From the pic, to me it looks like the gold leafing was not that well applied and moisture has worked its way in to under the faulty gold leafing.

To apply gold leaf, the base metal must have an adhesive (called "size") applied to where you want the leaf to stick. If this size is not properly applied, the leaf will not properly adhere to the base metal and will allow moisture to get in underneath.

I would be contacting the vendor to see what they are willing to do for you.
 
Last edited:
Dovo are not renowned for their QC, although some say that their Bismarcks are one of their better SR's.

From the pic, to me it looks like the gold leafing was not that well applied and moisture has worked its way in to under the faulty gold leafing.

To apply gold leaf, the base metal must have an adhesive (called "size") applied to where you want the leaf to stick. If this size is not properly applied, the leaf will not properly adhere to the base metal and will allow moisture to get in underneath.

I would be contacting the vendor to see what they are willing to do for you.


Sorry to say mate its not gold leaf and you don't use size under a razor as these are electroplated, but as you say contact vendor is the best option
 
That must suck ! This leads me to wonder if modern straights are really worth it ? Though I must admit I did pick up a modern Boker used along with a proper strop some time back and is on its way to me.
 
I've seen a similar condition before. Certain lubes have been reported to be capable of lifting gold plating. The manufacturers dance around the subject claiming that if the plating is perfect then there is no issue. If you wipe gold wash once it can be not-perfect in a nanosecond. The issue can be subtle at first; just a bit of lift around the edges or perimeter of a design. Then moisture has a path to get 'underneath' the gold and once that happens oxidation can form.
My experience with this isn't from the world of straight razors. Regardless, steel with gold plating is steel with gold plating and the form-factor is irrelevant. So that's why I avoid certain lubes for certain applications and I pretty much only use plain mineral oil on razors. Or Renwax..
 
Ok, contacted vendor.



TL;DR - they say it's user error [I firmly disagree and will be challenging with Paypal] and beyond that I find Jarrod @ The Superior Shave to be kind of a nutjob and would not recommend doing business with him nor with Dovo razors based on this experience. Even if they are right (I don't think so - it's ONLY rusting on the gold etching and nowhere else) they both handled this very poorly from a customer service perspective.

Here's the communications - you be the judge (formatted oldest to most recent). Next post I'll pull out some highlights from the long wall of text


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:ctbjdm
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 6:29 AM
To: The Superior Shave <>
Subject: Re: Your The Superior Shave order has been received!

Hi!

I have a problem with the Dovo Bismark received last week. Used it for my second shave yesterday and noticed it appears to be rusting at the etching location. I’ve attached two pics. I’ve used it twice, only with water and shave soap and dried it and stropped it afterwards.

Can you let me know how to get a replacement?

Thanks

[pics attached]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: The Superior Shave <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 8:16 AM
To: <ctbjdm>
Subject: Re: Your The Superior Shave order has been received!

Carbon steel is YOUR responsibility to protect, the appearance of rust has nothing to do with level of quality (Japanese chef knives costing thousands can rust in minutes before your eyes) and everything to do with the environment presented to the steel.

Dry thoroughly after each use, store in a dry place, and lightly oil with non food oil for long term storage.

There is good reason the barcode link on the razor carton and the paper I included with your razor state "Always Protect Carbon Steel", and whatever you have done thus far to protect it you may consider the appearance of rust as an emotion-free evidence of a failure of that care regimen.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From:ctbjdm
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 9:13 AM
To: The Superior Shave <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Your The Superior Shave order has been received!

Just so I'm clear, your suggesting that rust only behind the gold etching/plating (whatever it is) is user error after two shaves? Despite me having dried the razor with a towel and stropped it each time, and stored in a dry room (not the bathroom)?

I think it is much more likely to be a manufacturing problem - can you please let me know how to initiate a warranty claim with Dovo?

TBC I purchased these razors from you because you were considered a reputable dealer who could provide service, I would ask you to provide that service around a warranty claim.

Thank you

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: The Superior Shave <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 9:36 AM
To: ctbjdm<>
Subject: Re: Your The Superior Shave order has been received!

Correct.

It is a very simple system; the time of ownership has nothing to do with it. The drying process has nothing to do with it beyond your intentions to eliminate the presentation of pro-oxidation conditions to the steel.

The way it works is, the very instant pro-oxidation conditions are presented to the steel, oxidation occurs immediately, without exception.

Rust never sleeps.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: The Superior Shave <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 10:56 AM
To: ctbjdm<>
Subject: Re: Your The Superior Shave order has been received!

hello again ctbjdm, I have now read the thread on the badger and blade forum about this #2 razor. As I cannot speak there without providing $600 a year to the for-profit forum ownership, I will address you directly and you can relay that information if you wish.

Firstly, remember that in an enthusiast forum, anyone can present themselves as self-taught expert and say anything they wish. That does not necessarily make it true, though, and in ANY enthusiast forum you will always find posters who never make threads but always comment on others', because they wish to present an air of always the most learned opinion, and they place a high value in the collective of the forum seeing their positions on subjective matters as superior.

All features of blade design involve additional risk of first-oxidation-position _when pro-oxidation conditions have first been presented to the steel_. Washes, inlays, spine decors, even laser engraving to some extent provides an abrupt edge where zero features would have a continuous path (harder for oxidation's elements to gather).

Brightly polished steel (such as the "188" vs "275" finish in Thiers-Issard land, though I don't think anyone in Germany is producing non-satin-matte finishes anymore for ~10yrs) has much superior resistance to entering its pro-oxidation conditions than does the satin-matte finish steel (which is also less labor-intensive to finish); would it not be true, then, that satin-matte finish by nature is not providing the product the maximum protection, if the function of the tool is more important than all the other considerations?

[CTBJDM - removed some content which seemed specifically personal about another member, seems like there's bad blood here]

I suppose I hoped that someone would come along and explain (politely) that while rust will always attack the weakest position first (and it is often upon the cutting edge itself but spots on wash or inlay are very very common) if all of the steel were simultaneously exposed to the same conditions, any rust of any kind on any carbon steel tool is always the responsibility of the tool's administrator/owner.

If you were living in Nevada at 5% common humidity, you could dunk your gold-washed Bismarck in water and set it out to dry, and I still like your chances to have zero visible oxidation [because the environment as a whole trumps the risks associated to any details beyond a completely blank brightly-polished razor]. But you're in xxxxxx.

If you were on a sailboat in Singapore's harbor, it would not matter how fast you shaved or how good your post care regiment, you would be getting rust or oxidation immediately because a carbon steel tool is not practical for that environment. But you're in xxxxxxx.

I noticed in the thread you stated you *wiped* the razor dry, I will advise you with wash/inlay *never wipe dry*! You can wipe with an oil-soaked cloth, but the first thing you should always do in my professional opinion is attempt to disperse all standing moisture and doing something to allow the razor to dry quickly with as much circulation and low humidity as possible for your local conditions, *without ever wiping wash or inlay!* That will always ramp up the risk to the detail features, in my professional opinion. That's why I like and endorse my aforementioned rinse/alcohol/air/Ballistol regimen, I know it sounds like a lot of work but it only takes me about 1 to 2 minutes maximum and being in Florida since 2009 I have had success with it in a pretty challenging environment.

Lastly, we do offer the (ugly, and will stain any porous surface they'd ever touch) anti-rust Silicone Treated Cotton Razor Sleeves; thesuperiorshave.com/product/silicone-treated-anti-rust-razor-sleeve/

I do not use them much anymore since I started doing the Ballistol routine, but for many years I only rinsed, alcohol spritz, and into the sleeve it went, razors in sleeves in a plastic box away from the bathroom, and in so doing I was never able to witness any razor develop oxidation.

Another good customer has for years used a mason jar filled with 80% isopropyl alcohol and 20% mineral oil, after shaving he shakes the jar and dips the razor to the tang in that solution. That would certainly solve any oxidation problems related to ingress/egress always found in any wash/inlay/etc. details.

kind regards

[email protected]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: The Superior Shave <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 11:01 AM
To: ctbjdm
Subject: Re: Your The Superior Shave order has been received!

Mr. xxxxx, I've provided you the email of the contact who will reply to you within a few days, [email protected]

Send [email protected] an email, include your image, and await the reply.

Do you think ANYONE at Amazon.com would ever have taken all the time I have taken this morning to compose you emails as I have? Do you think ANYONE there would even know anything about the product? Anyone there ever heard of using a wheel shaped hone so that the cutting edge is concave?

Vote with your dollars what you wish to survive and it is assured to occur.

kind regards

[email protected]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Anne Rothstein <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 11:49 AM
To: ctbjdm
Subject: AW: Your The Superior Shave order has been received!

Hello Mr. xxxxx,

Thank you very much for your email and the photo.

Please be so kind as to take this up with The Superior Shave. As your retailer he will assist you in this matter.

The straight razor is made of carbon steel, and hence, rusts fairly easily. What most people overlook is that very often water drops and soap residue can be stuck on the inside of the scales. An there, the remain fairly long, when the surface of the blade is dried thoroughly, you eventually fold the blade in between the scales and expose it to the water/soap residue there. Another thing is that many people open the blade by gripping the spine of the razor. That also leaves finger prints on the blade that will result in rust.

However, The Superior Shave will surely be able to assess the damage and the cause, and will assist you.

Best regards,

Anne

DOVO

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From:ctbjdm
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 1:02 PM
To: The Superior Shave <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Your The Superior Shave order has been received!

Ok, I reached out to Anne, who directed me back to you to assist with next steps. Please let me know how I can submit a warranty claim for this.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From:ctbjdm
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 1:19 PM
To: The Superior Shave <[email protected]>; Anne Rothstein <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Your The Superior Shave order has been received!

Ok - Anne / Jarrod - what do you suggest the next steps should be here? I'm unhappy with A) the razor rusting, and B) how I'm being treated. I'm asking to submit a warranty claim. If you won't do that, I'll be forced to request a chargeback on my credit card.

Either way this has been a bad experience for me.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: The Superior Shave <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 2:38 PM
To: ctbjdm<>
Subject: Re: Your The Superior Shave order has been received!

Mr. xxxxxx, this below is the Dovo *owner* reply to me; I guess what do the experts of Badger&Blade have to say now? Care to post that there?

They just make up reality at Badger and Blade.

I am not treating you poorly in any way, all I am doing is being the messenger of information you do not wish to receive. Today, my children or youngest in any case chooses to call this 'being mean' or 'bullying'.

All I can tell you is if you follow my forthright advice provided previously I do not think you will have further oxidation.
_________________

Hi Jarrod,

Thank you for the message. I had a look at the pic and together with what the client wrote it seems like wrong treatment.

I also read the B6B thread and it's impossible for water coming under the gold. The single gold particles form a layer on the carbon steel and bond together. That way the spots cannot rust. Not sure what the client did but it looks funky. He said it only came up after he used it twice so it should be from either an acidic product he used for shaving or for cleaning. Carbon steel is carbon steel...

With the new packaging we will include a very extensive do/don't guide and hope that people will follow it. There will still be mistakes, that I am sure of.

Best,

Jens

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: The Superior Shave <>
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 9:48 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Your The Superior Shave order has been received!

hello Mr. xxxxxx

I am quite sorry that the information you received from Dovo [as I relayed directly from their owner to you by email yesterday] was not what you wished to hear, and I obviously wish that 100.0% of our customers are 100.0% happy with their experience with The Superior Shave.

Nonetheless, are you at least going to do the right thing and update that thread with the information that it is physically impossible for moisture to get *under* the gold decor? Do you think it is beneficial for future new straight razor users to arrive to shaving forums with an incumbency of stated falsehoods represented as facts?

Unfortunately, while I'm quite aware that Amazon.com works hard every day to condition you to believe the contrary, a consumer's purity of intentions in their actions is not an absolution of the financial responsibility for their actions.

kind regards

[email protected]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Last edited:
Highlight reel:

Do you think ANYONE at Amazon.com would ever have taken all the time I have taken this morning to compose you emails as I have? Do you think ANYONE there would even know anything about the product? Anyone there ever heard of using a wheel shaped hone so that the cutting edge is concave?

No - had I purchased this from Amazon I would have just returned it no questions asked...much better customer service.

Mr. xxxxxx, this below is the Dovo *owner* reply to me; I guess what do the experts of Badger&Blade have to say now? Care to post that there?

They just make up reality at Badger and Blade
.



Nonetheless, are you at least going to do the right thing and update that thread with the information that it is physically impossible for moisture to get *under* the gold decor? Do you think it is beneficial for future new straight razor users to arrive to shaving forums with an incumbency of stated falsehoods represented as facts?

Nope - going to let your words speak for themselves.
 
Last edited:
"Carbon steel is YOUR responsibility to protect, the appearance of rust has nothing to do with level of quality (Japanese chef knives costing thousands can rust in minutes before your eyes) and everything to do with the environment presented to the steel.

Dry thoroughly after each use, store in a dry place, and lightly oil with non food oil for long term storage.

There is good reason the barcode link on the razor carton and the paper I included with your razor state "Always Protect Carbon Steel", and whatever you have done thus far to protect it you may consider the appearance of rust as an emotion-free evidence of a failure of that care regimen
. "

If this is the first correspondence you got from them, it seems a bit abrasive to me. Regardless of where the fault lies, to me bold/caps comes off as screaming (YOUR) and the advice (consider the......failure.....) is to me neither explanatory nor helpful. I know carbon steel can rust or stain in an instant. I know it will not necessarily happen in x amount of minutes/hours/days the same every time. Hard to say really on what warranty action should have taken place (or not taken) but keeping a stained razor would have been easier to swallow had it been approached from a "I am very sorry to hear that you are experiencing issues with your razor. Can you explain to me exactly how you were caring for it? Let me explain to you how we recommend you care for it....." Not "It's your responsibility, you failure!"

Some personalities are just more conducive to a pleasant experience in a tuff situation. This guy may be lacking that particular personality characteristic.

In the end, you are likely just stuck with a stained razor. Luckily you can now implement a more proactive protection regimen and still have a very nice razor that you enjoy shaving with. If what ever is taking place there gets worse, you have the documentation to pick it up again with The Superior Shave at that point. Bad deal. Alas, life is full of tuff situations.
 
To the fellar at The Superior Shave, should you happen to still be following this thread, 1 upset customer is not the end of the world. I know it is hard not to be able to state your case. We all know that if you do any amount of business, there are unfortunately going to be a few bad experiences or unhappy customers. How you handle that, not limited to warranty or monetary fashion but personal courtesy and concern as well, is more important. Treat everyone with respect. Present your opinion and conclusion with gentleness and respect.

Hopefully everyone involved will learn a little something from it, and have better experiences in the future.
 
I would never deal with him personally, I've talked to him once before on this forum and saw a video rant of his recently about stones, which used abusive language against a member of this forum, and he's not someone I would ever trust as a retailer, except for perhaps some soap or other cheap, consumables, but I would go out of my way to find another retailer if I was in his area because I have found his mannerism rather unprofessional and abrasive. Not saying that he is in the wrong in particular in this situation, but the result is exactly as I would expect from him i.e. washing his hands of it. I understand that dealing with these things is an arduous task for a retailer, especially when the manufacture isn't particularly good at backing their products (I won't by Dovo again), but this isn't helping generate goodwill.
 
Thank you for sharing your experience. You won’t see me lining up for Jarrod’s brand of ‘superior’ customer service.

Don’t let the experience put you off of straight razor shaving though. I’m tipping that the Dovo shaves better than it looks. Have fun learning to use it and you will be rewarded with some great shaves and a new skill. They’re not all supermodels and first razors typically get a fair bit of abuse as you learn to use them.

For what it’s worth, I think you’ve done everything right. No need for special post shave alcohol dips or wearing gloves when handling the spine of a razor in my option. But what would I know? I’m just a daily straight razor shaver with a collection of spotless, carbon steel, straight razors.
 
Last edited:
I will keep my opinion about the matter to myself. Enough damage has been made already

But, For what’s worth, Jarrod’s silicon cotton sleeves work like magic. I don’t do any special regimen after shaving. Warm water, toilet paper on the blade, toilet paper on the inside of the scales, a dozen laps on the strop, and then to the sleeve it goes. No messy oil, alcohol or air pumps.

I never keep any of my razors outside the sleeves, and in >7 years living in 3 continents (including in the very humid tropics), none of my razors have shown any signs of rust

best $8-10 ever spent IMHO when purchasing and using straight razors.
 
To the OP: did you by any chance use really hot water in an effort to disinfect the razor upon arrival, or to clean it during/after the shave?

I did that once early on in my straight razor journey, and it brought out stains and made water spots on the steel…really looked nasty, and it was supposedly a “nice” razor. I just chalked it up to a hard learned lesson.

If you didn’t do that, and did everything right…I think it is very reasonable that you asked the seller for a refund or exchange.

If the vendor doesn’t do anything to right the situation, at least you now have a razor that you can use to dial in your honing skills.

Vr

Matt
 
Top Bottom