Is Battery power taking over the lawn/garden business?

[Chandu]

We have a Stihl electric leaf blower. 2 batteries. Each is worth about 6-8 minutes. They are good for short duration, but for longer, plug it in or use gas. I always feel like I'm about to run out of power. I don't like that feeling. Honestly, this is the very same reason an electric car would not be my choice. I like to drive rural backroads away from humanity and take photographs for 12 hours at a shot.

 

[pdieten]

Anyone with experience with the electric stuff where the batteries & chargers can be stored only in unheated garage (or other outbuilding) space in a northern climate?

I suspect it doesn't work out too well. After my father passed away this year I brought his 7-year-old 20V Troy-Bilt trimmer home to see if it could replace the corded-electric cheapie garbage I was using. It had been stored in exactly such an environment. Battery doesn't hold enough charge to do even half my lawn and it's discontinued so I can't replace it; would have to see if the pack could be rebuilt.

I bought a gas trimmer instead.

 

[oc_in_fw]

Hows that trimmer working out for you?

I cant get over how often I use my blower, almost daily. I even used it the other day for blowing out the eves troughs. My neighbor has a Stihl backpack blower, not sure which one. Its loud and heavy. It takes him twice the time to clean up after he mows his yards. He's been eyeing my 60v pretty closely. Far lighter and easier to use and its more powerful!

So well I bought the lawn mower.

 

[razorboi]

Batteries should be stored in a "cool, dry environment". Avoid extremes in temps (like an outbuilding in a northern climate). I don't know of any battery platform that would recommend against that rule. If super hot or super cold, the best place to store them would be in the house, fully charged.

I've read the following recommendations:

Do not store below 14° F.
Don't store above 85° F. for extended periods. It compromises battery performance. Also, battery could overheat, catch fire or explode.
Do not charge on metal shelf. If live circuit touches, battery can overheat, catch fire or explode.
Do not store battery on charger as battery can overheat, catch fire or explode.
Store battery partially (about 1/2) discharged. Lithium-ion cells become stressed and lose functionality when held at full charge for long periods, i.e. shortens lifespan.
Partially recharge the battery every two months in the off-season to prevent lifespan decay.
Avoid cycling, or running the battery completely flat before recharging, as this shortens lifespan. If you buy two batteries to achieve this, just know that both will die at about the same time, and you'll be looking at replacing two batteries instead of one.
Even with the best of care, the typical working lifespan of a lithium-ion battery is a mere two or three years.
Enquire into battery replacement cost and factor this into your comparison or cost computations.

And most importantly, do not charge them in your house and do not charge them when nobody is home.

This is the same battery technology that was employed in the Chinese hover-board scooters that caught fire, the Chinese lap-tops that caught fire, the Chinese baby monitors that caught fire, and the Samsung (Chinese) Galaxy Note 7 mobile-phones that caught fire. And, of course, it's the same reason the Kobalt and Greenworks cordless lawn-mowers caught fire and had to be recalled. And last I checked, all of the lawn-equipment batteries and chargers are still being sourced from...(you guessed it), China.

Still, less maintenance, lower noise, and no fumes, well... if you're lucky!

 

[Esox]

Today's electric equipment is so good that unless have a huge yard that takes hours to maintain or are a pro who runs your gear all day long, theres really no compelling reason to go with gas.

Unless the electrics or the switches go. Twice I've had my blower fail to start and had to pop the battery out and put it back in. It works fine after that but I had been leaving it in the garage with the battery in it. I'm in Ontario Canada and its been into the 30's at night here the last week. I think thats had something to do with it, temperature and/or dampness.

Anyone with experience with the electric stuff where the batteries & chargers can be stored only in unheated garage (or other outbuilding) space in a northern climate?

Dont let any batteries freeze. Using my old DeWalt 18v hammer drill working years ago I started bringing the batteries inside on colder nights. The NiCad batteries would lose a lot of juice overnight in cold temps. I havent found that yet with my Bosch L-ion set but I dont leave them out when it gets that cold. A lot of contractors in the winter here keep the batts in the truck between uses through the winter so they're always ready to go when needed.

would have to see if the pack could be rebuilt.

If its a NiCad pack it can be. A friend had his old 18v Milwaukee batteries rebuilt. $50 each, Canadian.

So well I bought the lawn mower.

Add the blower. You'll be amazed.

 

[garyg]

Dont let any batteries freeze. Using my old DeWalt 18v hammer drill working years ago I started bringing the batteries inside on colder nights. The NiCad batteries would lose a lot of juice overnight in cold temps. I havent found that yet with my Bosch L-ion set but I dont leave them out when it gets that cold. A lot of contractors in the winter here keep the batts in the truck between uses through the winter so they're always ready to go when needed.

Thanks for the reply(s) - that tears it for me - my gas powered stuff works fine from a freezing garage, though save the occasional use of the snow blower most of it hibernates until Spring ...

I'm too lazy to keep track of temperatures and bring a bunch of batteries inside when it dips (not to mention there's nowhere to put them)

 

[Toothpick]

I take my batteries out of the equipment when not in use and bring inside. The storage shed get’s well above 100 degrees during the summer and as cold as the outside temp during the winter. So after I’m done using them I bring them inside for storage until next time.

I inherited my grandparents Worx battery blower and the battery is shot. It will run for about 5 minutes on a full charge and die. They kept it plugged in on the charger when not in use...so basically 24/7 it was charging. Which I suspect is why the battery died.

Even my AA rechargeable batteries will get a full charge and then removed from the charging unit.

 

[Esox]

Thanks for the reply(s) - that tears it for me - my gas powered stuff works fine from a freezing garage, though save the occasional use of the snow blower most of it hibernates until Spring ...

I'm too lazy to keep track of temperatures and bring a bunch of batteries inside when it dips (not to mention there's nowhere to put them)

I've sort of converted a roll around printer stand with drawers to a charging station. I dont leave my 60v batts in anything. I take one battery with me when I go out to use them and bring it back in when finished and drop it on the charger if its low, its become habit. It will charge from 2 bars to 4 in about 20 minutes then its off the charger on sits on the stand until next time. My backup battery is sitting at half charge.

I treat my Bosch impact/drill set the same but the batteries live in the tools unless they need charging. They live in the house and when I need them I just grab the bag and go.

I like the idea of a battery powered snow blower but I have a whole bunch more faith in my 5hp two stroke. My two stroke gas trimmer I havent even looked at since I went to the 60v.

 

[Chandu]

Batteries to my way of thinking (current batteries, maybe one day we'll have better ones).
1. Limited power, very temperature dependent.
2. Cannot be stored well for long periods of time. That gas in the gas can is still going to run an engine a couple months later.
2a Wear out over time. Never wore out a fuel tank.
3. Time to recharge. A good portion of an hour to several hours vs the minute it takes to dump more gas into a tank.
4. To have an equivalent run time that a gallon of gas would deliver would require an exhorbitant amount of batteries for a leaf blower or most small yard/outdoor appliances.


Batteries are great for things that consume tiny amounts of power or things that need a very short run time and can then go out of service for a sufficiently long time before it is needed again.

The above are also many of the reasons that I find fully electrical cars unappealing. We need about 500 years of technological advancement in batteries in the next 5 years for them to get where I would be happy with them for most things.

 

[Badgerstate36]

Unless the electrics or the switches go. Twice I've had my blower fail to start and had to pop the battery out and put it back in. It works fine after that but I had been leaving it in the garage with the battery in it. I'm in Ontario Canada and its been into the 30's at night here the last week. I think thats had something to do with it, temperature and/or dampness.

The potential things that could go wrong with an electric is far, far less than what could go wrong with a piston engine. I personally never owned a piece of electric lawn equipment that didnt work flawlessly for year.
Ive had my cheap little Ryobi string trimmer for several years now (its the $80 one with the curved shaft) and its far outlived what I thought it would. Ive even kept it stored in a damp crawlspace all that time, batteries included.
FWIW, Im personally not a believer that you need to bring your batteries in during the cold months. Do you take the battery out of your car every night and bring it inside?
I keep all of my batteries in my unheated, uninsulated garage year round and never have an issue with them. A battery certainly will lose a bit of amperage when its colder but I doubt that it makes much difference and once you start using it, the battery is going to warm up, especially with any of the newer, brushless tools that put so much more of a demand on a battery, which causes it to heat up. That may well have been true of the old Ni-Cad batteries but lithium ion and brushless is a whole different ballgame.

 

[Badgerstate36]

Batteries to my way of thinking (current batteries, maybe one day we'll have better ones).
1. Limited power, very temperature dependent.
2. Cannot be stored well for long periods of time. That gas in the gas can is still going to run an engine a couple months later.
2a Wear out over time. Never wore out a fuel tank.
3. Time to recharge. A good portion of an hour to several hours vs the minute it takes to dump more gas into a tank.
4. To have an equivalent run time that a gallon of gas would deliver would require an exhorbitant amount of batteries for a leaf blower or most small yard/outdoor appliances.


Batteries are great for things that consume tiny amounts of power or things that need a very short run time and can then go out of service for a sufficiently long time before it is needed again.

The above are also many of the reasons that I find fully electrical cars unappealing. We need about 500 years of technological advancement in batteries in the next 5 years for them to get where I would be happy with them for most things.

With all respect, Id say those are some very outdated options. I used gas equipment for years and wouldn't go back to it for anything. Electric is just so much less of a hassle than gas is.
FWIW, I disagree completely on your comparison of storage time. I can put my electric tools away in the fall and not do a thing to them, put the battery on the charger for an hour in the spring and they all fire right up. With gas equipment, you have to run the gas out of them, fog the engine and then in the spring, change the oil and pull the rope 10x or more until they start. Also, if you leave gas in them for a few months it will gum up the carburator so much that they wont start. My father is a retired mechanic who now runs a small engine shop and he makes a killing every spring cleaning carbuators for people who left the gas in their mower all winter.

 

[Badgerstate36]

Ive been eying some of the Milwaukee trimmers and leaf blowers lately. They seem to be very well made and have great power, although theyre a bit on the expensive side.
Im hoping that HD runs a Black Friday deal on them and if they do, I'll be there to snatch them up, even though I don't really need a trimmer or blower right now. LOL

 

[TexOkie Shaver]

I have a Worx weed whacker, a Worx blower and two Black & Decker drills all powered by lithium batteries. I store the batteries inside while the devices are stored in the garage. I top off the batteries when I know I’m going to use them and I’ve not had to replace any of the batteries with the exception of one of the drills. That drill is ten years old, the rest of the stuff is about six years old. Lithium batteries work fine if you store and treat them as the warnings say.

 

[Flintstone65]

I LOVE battery powered stuff....for one simple reason, I suck with small engines (e.g., lawnmowers, chainsaws, gas trimmers, etc, etc). If you're that guy who has that magic touch with carburetors, spark plugs, various oils, chokes, compression release mechanisms....man, I wholeheartedly respect and envy you; but I am not. I like having to keep track of one thing: "is the battery charged? Cool, let's get to work". Are the battery versions as powerful or long lasting or efficient as their gas-powered counterparts? I don't know the answer in general, but they are for my work. So here's my arsenal so far:

• Ryobi Battery Powered Riding Lawnmower
• 3 Ego lawnmowers
• 2 Ego chainsaws
• 1 Ego leaf blower
• 1 Ego weed trimmer
• Various battery powered tools (i.e., drill, staple gun, impact driver, screwdriver)

For those wondering why I have so many lawnmowers, I keep them at various locations where I need to do lawn work. But my VERY first piece of equipment was a battery powered chainsaw. I've brought down large trees (40 to 50 footers), limbed and bucked them....most recently I showed up in a hurricane with one to remove a tree from the road. Other volunteer firefighters were laughing at me and my "toy" chainsaw, until I got to work with it, then every person on scene wanted to know if they could try it and how much it costs. Now, I keep my chains sharp, and frankly, that's probably as key to cutting up something as how it's powered; but while I watch my compatriots pull on the cord, adjust the choke, then forget to release the compression after multiple attempts....while I press a button and start cutting....well, I'm just thankful to have battery powered stuff.

 

[Esox]

The potential things that could go wrong with an electric is far, far less than what could go wrong with a piston engine.

My 25 year old 5HP Frontier 2 stroke snowblower just disagreed with you lol. Fresh gas, on the 3rd year, then the primer bulb wouldnt pull fuel so I had to find the crack and trim it, checked the plug, primed it and it fired right up on the first pull and good to go for another year lol. That snow blower was made in Kansas and is a solid machine.

Ive had my cheap little Ryobi string trimmer for several years now (its the $80 one with the curved shaft) and its far outlived what I thought it would. Ive even kept it stored in a damp crawlspace all that time, batteries included.
FWIW, Im personally not a believer that you need to bring your batteries in during the cold months. Do you take the battery out of your car every night and bring it inside?
I keep all of my batteries in my unheated, uninsulated garage year round and never have an issue with them. A battery certainly will lose a bit of amperage when its colder but I doubt that it makes much difference and once you start using it, the battery is going to warm up, especially with any of the newer, brushless tools that put so much more of a demand on a battery, which causes it to heat up. That may well have been true of the old Ni-Cad batteries but lithium ion and brushless is a whole different ballgame.

All cars sold here come with block heaters. A pickup I bought brand new in Saskatchewan also came with a battery blanket. The 2006 Grand Prix I have has a factory block heater in it too but I've never used it. It also came OEM with, I think, a 925CCA battery but at -30 it turns over pretty slow. If it called for 20w50 oil instead of the 5w30, the block heater would be needed at those temps.

Lithium Ion is pretty good. Mine havent even gotten warm never mind hot and I've used my 2.5Ahr continuously, but under light load, to one bar. I can drive 3" deck screws with my Bosch impact until the battery is dead and it wont be warm. NiCad was a whole different world. That old 18v DeWalt wouldnt do much of anything at -10C from cold. It needed a bit of time to get warmed up and working at full power. The charger it came with was designed for that to, it had a 10 minute precharge cycle it went through. That would also wake up a cold battery.

My days of working outside in the winter like that are long over, but I'd have complete faith my Bosch wouldnt fail me at -10C.

 

[Esox]

With gas equipment, you have to run the gas out of them, fog the engine and then in the spring, change the oil and pull the rope 10x or more until they start. Also, if you leave gas in them for a few months it will gum up the carburator so much that they wont start. My father is a retired mechanic who now runs a small engine shop and he makes a killing every spring cleaning carbuators for people who left the gas in their mower all winter.

The fuel here must be different. I only use what use to be called Sunoco 94oct but we dont have Sunoco here anymore. The 94oct has a stabilizer added to it at the time they fill the tank. I've never drained the carbs in any of my 2 strokes and only change gas when it either runs out or every 3rd year, like this year.

My Stihl MS170 chainsaw has 3 year old gas in it and it starts the same as ever. Lock the trigger wide open with choke, pull once, pull twice, pull three times and it fires and dies. Unlock the trigger, give it a pull, feather the throttle a few seconds and it idles perfectly.

That said, I only use 94oct and Stihl oil at 50:1. I had a friend that was a small engine mechanic. His biggest money maker was the old 2 stroke that wouldnt start. He'd pull the muffler off, get it red hot with a torch and kick it against the block wall lol. Doing that turns all the old crappy oil they used for mix into ash and breaks it loose. He'd put it back on and they'd fire right up. You need to use a high quality oil in 2 strokes.

 

[pdieten]

I've noticed that recently they're started selling fuel in quart cans for 2 stroke engines. After the annoyance of having to go to the hazmat transfer station to dispose of some old mix, when I bought my new 2-stroke weed whacker I bought a can of this gas. Apparently it's high-octane non-ethanol, safe to keep in engines over winter. It costs a relative fortune, but for how much a weed whacker gets used it's not a budget breaker.

 

[Chandu]

With all respect, Id say those are some very outdated options. I used gas equipment for years and wouldn't go back to it for anything. Electric is just so much less of a hassle than gas is.
FWIW, I disagree completely on your comparison of storage time. I can put my electric tools away in the fall and not do a thing to them, put the battery on the charger for an hour in the spring and they all fire right up. With gas equipment, you have to run the gas out of them, fog the engine and then in the spring, change the oil and pull the rope 10x or more until they start. Also, if you leave gas in them for a few months it will gum up the carburator so much that they wont start. My father is a retired mechanic who now runs a small engine shop and he makes a killing every spring cleaning carbuators for people who left the gas in their mower all winter.

I do agree on the importance of managing fuel, don't use ethanol. I don't fog my engine, I try to run them out and that seems good enough as I've not had any issues.

I think my other points are very valid. Do I enjoy my battery powered drills? Yes. Batteries shortcomings are over looked with things like that. Not so much for mowing the lawn or doing real yard work in my opinion.

 

[Badgerstate36]

My 25 year old 5HP Frontier 2 stroke snowblower just disagreed with you lol. Fresh gas, on the 3rd year, then the primer bulb wouldnt pull fuel so I had to find the crack and trim it, checked the plug, primed it and it fired right up on the first pull and good to go for another year lol. That snow blower was made in Kansas and is a solid machine.

Well, there are certainly exception to every rule. By and large though, I would say that electric has already proven to be far more reliable than gas ever thought about being. Much of that is because it is laregely idiot-proof and because it really requires next to zero maintenance though. LOL

All cars sold here come with block heaters. A pickup I bought brand new in Saskatchewan also came with a battery blanket. The 2006 Grand Prix I have has a factory block heater in it too but I've never used it. It also came OEM with, I think, a 925CCA battery but at -30 it turns over pretty slow. If it called for 20w50 oil instead of the 5w30, the block heater would be needed at those temps.

Right but even then youre talking the extreme. It may turn over slow but it still turns over and you don't need to bring your battery in the house to warm it up for it to work.

Lithium Ion is pretty good. Mine havent even gotten warm never mind hot and I've used my 2.5Ahr continuously, but under light load, to one bar. I can drive 3" deck screws with my Bosch impact until the battery is dead and it wont be warm. NiCad was a whole different world. That old 18v DeWalt wouldnt do much of anything at -10C from cold. It needed a bit of time to get warmed up and working at full power. The charger it came with was designed for that to, it had a 10 minute precharge cycle it went through. That would also wake up a cold battery.

My days of working outside in the winter like that are long over, but I'd have complete faith my Bosch wouldnt fail me at -10C.

Yeah, as much as people look back with love and admiration on the days on NiCad, people tend to forget some of the real downfalls of those days. I personally wouldn't trade any of my brushless lithium-ion DeWalt or Milwaukee drill drivers or hammer drills for anything from the NiCad days. When you see my little 12v Milwaukee Fuel hammer drill bore holes in brick and concrete just as fast as an 18v would, its an impressive thing to see.

 

[Avi]

I've read the following recommendations:

Do not store below 14° F.
Don't store above 85° F. for extended periods. It compromises battery performance. Also, battery could overheat, catch fire or explode.
.
.
.

And most importantly, do not charge them in your house and do not charge them when nobody is home.

What? What random place in the world is this going to work outside of maybe California.. most of us have seasons :/