Is a shavette/cut-throat razor really THAT much better than a safety razor?

[luvmysuper]

Now there is some unvarnished truth interjected into a rather overblown (at times) discussion. Not being a SR user, I will refrain from strongly disputing their claim that they can get better results than they can with a DE because I can't (although many who use both SR and DE do). However, I am highly suspect. I think this gets to the heart of the matter.

Analogy: I'm an avid shooter, and I reload my own ammunition for virtually everything I shoot. I enjoy the ballistic research, the measuring with chronographs, the tedious development of a particular recipe for a round, especially for a particular firearm. It's a love for that part of the process that led me to make all my own ammo. I don't criticize those who shoot and do not reload their own ammo. They may not get the enjoyment I get from all this. I consider reloading a rewarding activity in and of itself. Many of them are very superior shooters who compete and would rather spend their time honing their technique using off-the-shelf match ammo. Not better or worse. They are still great shooters. Likewise, experienced DE shavers are still great shavers.

That experienced SR shavers can get close shaves is indisputable. That they get closer or longer-lasting shaves than an experienced DE user is highly suspect in my mind. Enjoy your activity! Just don't make over-hyped claims for it.

I'm personally dubious of any claim that a shave with one type of razor lasts longer than another type simply because of the type of razor.
There are certainly extenuating conditions which might make this true due to proper or improper application of the razor type, but it isn't the blade itself that makes the difference.
When it is all said and done, you can cut hair off at the surface or just below the surface with the correct use of any razor - so a shave "lasting longer" with one type seems off to me. JMHO
If I am a regular cart user, and not an experienced DE or straight user, my shave would be best and closest with a cart.
Likewise for regular and experienced users of all other razor types.

 

[Esox]

I'm personally dubious of any claim that a shave with one type of razor lasts longer than another type simply because of the type of razor.

I'm finding the differences less important lately but there are differences, for me at least

Gillette Tech and a fresh Feather blade, 6 hour BBS finish. Fatip Grande and a fresh Feather blade, 12 hour BBS. GEM MMOC and a GEM PTFE blade, >18 hour BBS. The main difference between them being blade exposure.

The differences, mechanically, are subtle but they can make a difference. Blade stability being the major point for me followed closely by blade exposure. I dont personally like a lot of blade gap but it does make a razor more effective.

I shaved for two years straight, every shave at 48 hours growth, directly ATG first pass with my Grande. I became very good at it. Its a very efficient razor and the blade is very stable. I've done that shave with that razor at 78 hours growth. At <100 hours growth its quite capable ATG first pass. The MMOC on the other hand, because of increased blade exposure and blade stability, the blade is .009" thick instead of ~.004 thick for a typical DE blade, my MMOC is easily twice as efficient and closer shaving.

MMOC/PTFE for its 4th shave.

WK.

Maggard Synthetic.

~100 hours since last shave. I dont think it would matter if it was around 200 hours.

Single buffing pass ATG. One clean up. The MMOC is all business and this was business as usual.

Nice comfy BBS. What more could be asked for.

Recently I've found out that it doesnt matter if I shave at 200 hours. The GEM MMOC is an extremely capable razor but I cant say its the easiest razor to learn or use.

I used cart type razors and electrics for more than 20 years. I never had a BBS finish with either of them.

 

[never-stop-learning]

I'm personally dubious of any claim that a shave with one type of razor lasts longer than another type simply because of the type of razor.
There are certainly extenuating conditions which might make this true due to proper or improper application of the razor type, but it isn't the blade itself that makes the difference.
When it is all said and done, you can cut hair off at the surface or just below the surface with the correct use of any razor - so a shave "lasting longer" with one type seems off to me. JMHO
If I am a regular cart user, and not an experienced DE or straight user, my shave would be best and closest with a cart.
Likewise for regular and experienced users of all other razor types.

You just had to go and inject logic into the conversation.

 

[Esox]

 

[Dave himself]

I started off with half DE shavettes hadn't a clue what I was doing. Hadn't watched YouTube videos hadn't done any research nothing. My face was cut to pieces but after watching YouTube videos and doing a lot of research my technique greatly improved and the cuts got less through time to the point where I was getting almost getting BBS shaves 90% of the time. A couple of months ago I decided that I'd give De razors a go and to my surprise I picked it up really quickly and once again through time I was getting BBS shaves again with the DEs. I enjoy shaving with both now equiliy. Which gives me the better shaves I'd say I get a bit less irritation with the half DEs but apart from that its about equal thats just my take on it

 

[JasonJT]

Thanks to all for your replies. Im perfectly happy with my DE and my Mach 3. They both do the job (obviously the DE does a better job; I use the Mach 3 for when I don't have time for the luxury shave).

Jason.

 

[GNR]

Fellows, fellows. PLEASE!

Some here get carried away in their zeal.

Not everyone is blessed with prefect health and some people may struggle and find it very hard to use a SR.

Some folks have arthritis and so can't make that firm grip necessary to hold a SR, as it yields pain. Some have Parkinson's and their hands are too shaky to utilize a SR without casing harm. Some people have lost their hand (say a combat veteran) and can't stretch their skin, as they only have one hand left. For them it's nearly impossible to operate a SR, which calls for constant skin-stretching (let alone one-hand stropping).

I get it's all OH SO easy when we are strong and healthy, but let us not forget about the less fortunate fellow shavers.

A little more compassion and a little more understanding wouldn't hurt, before you try to "convince" everyone how and why YOUR point of view is the only truth. Some things are subjective, others are not; and a lot of it is circumstantial.

Thanks for stating that. When I first started I read everything I could about Straight Razors, honing, and the required technique to get excellent shaves.

As I read, I realized that I would never be able to use a straight razor. I have severe damage to a shoulder that was injured once in Afghanistan and once in Iraq (same shoulder, no luck). I cannot hold a razor in my left hand so I was trying to learn/watch/figure out one handed shaving. Then the facts hit, I cannot rotate my arm enough to stretch the skin.

But, life is funny. Multiple surgeries and months of rehab allowed me to regain a lot of ability and strength and to retire from service on my timeline and not due to my injuries.

Due to numerous posts and discussions on B&B, I learned about SE razors. I tried them and was sucked into the SE universe and abandoned all DEs. I’ve added some DE razors back into the rotation but my love is the SE razor. I get great shaves and can contort my face enough for the areas that need stretching.

I love the discussion, I love all the different razors everyone posts pictures of, and most of all I’m thankful to have found this community that allowed me to experiment and find the perfect razor choice for me.

 

[JCinPA]

Thank you for your service, sir!

 

[GNR]

Thank you for your service, sir!

It truly was an honor. I had the pleasure to serve with men and women that demonstrated the best we can strive for. I wouldn’t change a thing.

 

[never-stop-learning]

Thanks for stating that. When I first started I read everything I could about Straight Razors, honing, and the required technique to get excellent shaves.

As I read, I realized that I would never be able to use a straight razor. I have severe damage to a shoulder that was injured once in Afghanistan and once in Iraq (same shoulder, no luck). I cannot hold a razor in my left hand so I was trying to learn/watch/figure out one handed shaving. Then the facts hit, I cannot rotate my arm enough to stretch the skin.

But, life is funny. Multiple surgeries and months of rehab allowed me to regain a lot of ability and strength and to retire from service on my timeline and not due to my injuries.

Due to numerous posts and discussions on B&B, I learned about SE razors. I tried them and was sucked into the SE universe and abandoned all DEs. I’ve added some DE razors back into the rotation but my love is the SE razor. I get great shaves and can contort my face enough for the areas that need stretching.

I love the discussion, I love all the different razors everyone posts pictures of, and most of all I’m thankful to have found this community that allowed me to experiment and find the perfect razor choice for me.

Thank you very much for your service.

 

[steveclarkus]

How exactly do you disagree that DE and cartridge razors represent an improvement? One is essentially a very sharp knife that can cut you if you look at it wrong, takes ages to maintain and requires more time and effort to use while the others represent entire new inventions designed to make the act of shaving simpler, less time consuming and safer overall. It’s undeniable the safety and cartridge razor as an invention is a measurable improvement over the straight razor. It’s like saying a tesla isn’t really an improvement over the model t. It is. Your preference may be for the model t but to say something that’s faster, safer an more efficient isn’t an improvement is to misunderstand what the term means. I’m not trying to denigrate those that see SR shaving as the preferable way to do things either. To me, a good manual transmission is “better” than the best dual clutch automatic out there. But i think it’s a bad habit here at B&B to deny that shaving HAS improved over the years is some measurable ways for men as a whole. Almost all of us prefer shaving the hard way so lets not forget that there’s a whole world out there that finds carts and a can to be the better option.

I remember when they included a rather substantial book on baseball every year with their razors. My sister would buy dad a new razor every year just to get that book. Good marketing move and a lot of men with more razors than they didn’t know what to do with.

 

[DaveHStone]

Thanks for stating that. When I first started I read everything I could about Straight Razors, honing, and the required technique to get excellent shaves.

As I read, I realized that I would never be able to use a straight razor. I have severe damage to a shoulder that was injured once in Afghanistan and once in Iraq (same shoulder, no luck). I cannot hold a razor in my left hand so I was trying to learn/watch/figure out one handed shaving. Then the facts hit, I cannot rotate my arm enough to stretch the skin.

But, life is funny. Multiple surgeries and months of rehab allowed me to regain a lot of ability and strength and to retire from service on my timeline and not due to my injuries.

Due to numerous posts and discussions on B&B, I learned about SE razors. I tried them and was sucked into the SE universe and abandoned all DEs. I’ve added some DE razors back into the rotation but my love is the SE razor. I get great shaves and can contort my face enough for the areas that need stretching.

I love the discussion, I love all the different razors everyone posts pictures of, and most of all I’m thankful to have found this community that allowed me to experiment and find the perfect razor choice for me.

Thank You for Your Service!

As for razors, my "path" has been very similar - DE >>> SE >>> back to DE. I still enjoy a SE shave here and there, but I have principally returned to DE.

SR, while great in appeal, are certainly more complicated to operate, both shave and maintenance wise, so I decided it wasn't for me. I don't doubt it can give excellent results, but I do question the claim it "shaves closer" and "it shaves with less irritation", etc... this is very subjective, w/o any scientific basis. Any sharp blade will cut hair, be it DE, SE, naked, even a sharply honed axe.

 

[PintoPlain]

With regard to shaves with less irritation while using a straight. My opinion is there is definitely something to this. My reasoning is as follows:

When most men pick up a DE, they usually move from a cart where they have acquired some sort of technique similar, but not the same as used to shave with a DE. For this reason, they are effectively refining their technique, but still may have bad habits from carts. They can still get adequate shaves albeit with a little irritation and most likely assume that's just part of shaving.

When one starts using a straight, it is totally different to using a DE, SE or cart and previously acquired technique is seldom useful. You are effectively learning from scratch, yet you are aware of what a decent shave is. Therefore as you refine your SR technique to obtain your desired results DFS, SAS or BBS, you adapt the technique to reduce irritation, and this then becomes your norm for using a straight.

Therefore, as you learned the correct technique for you from the start, SR shaves will typically have less irritation.

Of course there are exceptions to the above. It is also my opinion that men are generally not taught how to shave. Most just get a razor and go for it, be it a cart (usually), an old DE (less common than it used to be). As straight razors haven't been the norm for a century or more, that are unlikely to be the razor men would start with.

 

[kingfisher]

I have been shaving with AC shavettes since September of 2019 and have only done maybe 7 or 8 shaves with anything else since then, usually when on vacation, or when I bought a new-to-me DE that I wanted to try out.

Is it better? For me it is. Closer? I don’t really think so. What I like about it is that it shaves just as close with less irritation. I like being able to control every aspect of the shave myself, not relying on the design of the DE to help me with that.

Please note that I use AC blade shavettes, not DE or half-DE blade shavettes, which are a whole different beast.

 

[steveclarkus]

I have been shaving with AC shavettes since September of 2019 and have only done maybe 7 or 8 shaves with anything else since then, usually when on vacation, or when I bought a new-to-me DE that I wanted to try out.

Is it better? For me it is. Closer? I don’t really think so. What I like about it is that it shaves just as close with less irritation. I like being able to control every aspect of the shave myself, not relying on the design of the DE to help me with that.

Please note that I use AC blade shavettes, not DE or half-DE blade shavettes, which are a whole different beast.

I agree. You can only get so close. I just find straight razors are much more pleasant experience.

 

[Badgerstate36]

Good afternoon all.

Today when I was in my local chemist (I am from UK, we call the said shops chemists, not drug stores) I saw this for sale:

WILKINSON Vintage Edition Cut Throat + 5 Blades - Straight Razor | Alzashop.com

Straight Razor WILKINSON Vintage Edition Cut Throat + 5 Blades on www.alzashop.com. ✅ Safe Shopping. ✅ See all the product information. ✅ Suitable...

www.alzashop.com

Wikinson Sword's own shavette razor.

I was tempted to buy it but I want to know if a cut-throat razor (or shavette) is really THAT much better than a safety razor in terms of closeness; given the extra effort and precautions that are involved. Or is it just the 'ritual' that cut-throat razor enthusiasts enjoy?

My safety razor gives a very good shave so the whole point of this question is to see if its worth upgrading to a shavette/cut-throat as my skills improve.

Jason.

As someone whose used both, IMO its not better. Both give you a close shave, although there is a greater sense of accomplishment in doing it with a shavette/straight razor.

 

[rbscebu]

When @JasonJT asked "THAT much better" he left it open as to what he meant be "better". I'll pick a few "betters" and give my observations.

• Closeness - SR best as a BBS finish lasts hours longer.
• Speed - DE best as less concentration is required.
• Cost - SR best over the longer term.
• Nil irritation - SR best.
• Maintenance skill required - DE best as almost none is required.
• Enjoyment - SR best due to the usage skill required.
• Shaving skill required - DE best as it is easier to learn how to use.
• Impressing girls - SR best as they find it very manly to watch.

 

[Jbird45]

In my humble (hah!) Opinion, I would not start with a shavette.

My traditional straight razor is my most used straight razor. I started with a shavette to test the waters. I had a determination to learn how to do it but wanted to start out without having to buy stones, strops, etc.

In my experience, a DE shavette is less forgiving than my straight razor. Those corners are sharp, exposed, and easy to knick yourself with. With practice though, it will get easier and you will get a good shave. I have never tried a safety blade in my shavette, but it was just a tool before I jumped into straights.

Maybe this is just because I now have a lot more experience with it, but I if I had to pick one razor to use the rest of my life it would be my straight.

There is a maintenance factor, it needs to be stropped, honed, etc. But one razor will last a lifetime if cared for. You aren't creating hazardous waste or putting more plastic in the landfill like cartridge razors or DE blades. About the only waste created is soap scum and aftershave bottles. If eco friendly is important to you, not judging if it isn't, a straight can't be beat.

Now, maybe I am biased because I had shavette experience before picking up my straight, but I get a much more comfortable shave with my straight razor than I do with a shavette or a safety razor. I also get far fewer Knicks with a straight than a shavette or safety razor. It's just an all around better tool in my experience. I don't get razor burn, weepers, etc. Once you learn the angle, how to hold it, and how to shave, it's a wonderful experience.

But my experience isn't worth much to you. You have different skin, beard, hair growth patterns etc

If you are not satisfied with a double edge safety razor, I would not hesitate to try a traditional straight razor. Just get a shave ready razor from a reputable source and a good, yet inexpensive strop. Don't worry about stones yet. And don't buy a super expensive strop for your first one. If you knick the strop it won't give you a heart attack. Don't buy a cheap strop, but don't buy an expensive strop. Just buy a good, working man's strop.

But just know you can't just pick up a straight and get to shaving. You have to want to learn the craft, and that's part of the fun.

 

[OkieStubble]

I never had the patience or skill to keep my Straights honed with stones, but 3M lapping film changed all of that. I can easily keep the edge on my Dovo shave ready with some 0.5 film and a linen strop with some cr0x.

Straights are definitely a more forgivable and comfortable shave then a Shavette and while one razor may not shave closer than another type or option,. For me, I at least perceive, I can get a closer shave with a Shavette over a Straight.

There are Shavette's out there, that are designed to hide the corners of the DE half blade. One of my very first Shavette's was a Luxor brand shavette that covered the corners of the blade and only left a small section of the blades edge to cut the beard with. It's a perfect tool if one wants to practice the straight shave without all the maintenance and honing of a real straight.

 

[global_dev]

Just read through the thread, we can all agree to disagree on many things but the only things i wanted to add, in a comradely tone.

[SR] takes ages to maintain

“Ages”? stropping and perhaps balsa (as that’s the cool kids finishing SOP)? Right? .. are we taking the same thing? I get it doesnt take much to remove a used blade, discarding properly and replacing, but “ages” to maintain a straight razor? Its like 30-60 seconds of maintenance effort.

@ctr let me try and correct your axioms

• everyone is different and might be tempted to argue method xftg is better than ohgyg

are you having trouble with method wkrp? Cause that’s the shiz..forget xftg and ohgyg