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Introducing my new "Old Type" with Questions

I just purchased this rather nice razor and have been researching it a little. It is what I've learned is a Gillette "old type". I have no case with this razor. It seems to be in rather nice shape but I am a little confused by the fact that it does not have a serial number embossed on the base plate. From whit I've gathered an old type would have a SN other than a short time in 1927-1928. The Improved version that replaced this did not have a SN but that is a different head entirely.

The plating is great! I did not notice any cracks in the handle fortunately until I looked through a magnifier. I do have a barely visible crack in the are above the knurling on the handle. The knurling is very "clean" yet other than a few small rubs that I see.

The head pieces seem to have a slightly different tint to them. They have more of a coppery look like rose gold. The bottom of the base plate is very clean like it has been coated with a clear finish. The handle and head all look like they have been just setting for a long time and have acquired a nice luster. The exception being the cap. It has a very thin film of corrosion that should wipe off if I think I might want to do that. There is only one small spot of verdigris on one of the pins.

I don't see a lot of dents or scratches on this one. The corners all seem quite sharp and the comb has no bent teeth.

It weighs in at around 53-54 gm. I haven't measure the thickness of the cap but I could if that would help

Based on what I see this may have been sitting in a case unused for a long time prior to me spotting it. The case material rotted but someone saved the razor.

I can't wait to slip a blade in it and give it a try. I hear they tend to be a little aggressive.

So what have I got here? Old type for sure but I'm curious what the thinking is on the date of manufacture.

Thanks,
Dirty
 

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Hi,

Looks like the newer production variant which had a thicker top cap and baseplate. I have a thin which was my Grandfather's. I also had a thick version and it shaved no differently than the thin one.

Stan
 

nemo

Lunatic Fringe
Staff member
Nice score.

One thing I see that could be corrected are the corners of the top cap where a previous owner somehow damaged it (middle pic, upper left especially).

Those bumps on the underside can sometimes keep the cap from sitting flat against the baseplate and not hold the blade tightly and evenly across its full length. This can cause the blade to look warped and not provide a smooth shave.

A quick couple of swipes with a flat file will usually fix it up nicely.
 
Nemo,
Thanks for spotting that. I did notice those as well in fact when I mounted a blade in it last night, it seemed that the blade exposure was inconsistent. I hate to take a file to it but if that is what it takes it will be worth it.
 
Great looking Old Type - they are fantastic shavers, I love mine. Enjoy!

I’ve read that they stopped putting serial numbers/date codes on the ball end Old Types after the patent expired in 1921, so for a much longer period than you describe. They also stopped putting the patent date on the handle, and introduced the thicker 102A top cap. Your Old Type appears to have all three of those characteristics, so it’s safe to say it’s a 1921-1929, I would think.
 
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nemo

Lunatic Fringe
Staff member
Nemo,
Thanks for spotting that. I did notice those as well in fact when I mounted a blade in it last night, it seemed that the blade exposure was inconsistent. I hate to take a file to it but if that is what it takes it will be worth it.

You're welcome. Just trying to help!

@Esox knows all about this, too
 
Nice, @Dirty Harry. I got one for free a few months ago because the top cap's threading was coned which the sell didn't reveal. I sent it to Chris at BRG to see if he could find a replacement top cap and buff the whole thing down to the brass. He did all that and sent me a thick top cap as well. While the razor was shaveable at that point, cleaning it was messy without being plated so I sent it back and had him do the gold plating (which the razor original was. Had a small hairline crack around the collar at the base which I'd missed. But these were great razors. I just use a lighter touch and take it easy. Mine doesn't have a serial number either and came in a pocket case with a blade bank that seem to be correct for the version I have.

Here it is (photo by BRG) just before it was sent home to me in polished brass, no original finish. The second photo is the gold plated update. As you can see, our bottom plates appear to be the same version. I preferred the look of the polished brass but not the tarnishing.
fullsizeoutput_44d2.jpeg


fullsizeoutput_44da.jpeg
 
I feel like the Old Type, as the Grande Dame of safety razors, is the best teacher of the oft-cited general advice to wetshavers:

1. Go slow
2. NO pressure
3. Learn the right angle for the razor

Yes, this is good all-around advice. But a Superspeed will let you get away with driving too fast. A NEW will let you use an improper angle. Some razors are fine with a little pressure.

But the Old Lady knows what she wants, and expects it. Every time. Give an Old Type what she wants, and she will reward you with as close and smooth a shave as any razor ever designed. But always respect her.

It took me a couple disappointing shaves with my first Old Type to dial it in. Now it’s top of my rotation along with the NEW SC.
 
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I feel like the Old Type, as the Grande Dame of safety razors, is the best teacher of the oft-cited general advice to wetshavers:

1. Go slow
2. NO pressure
3. Learn the right angle for the razor

Yes, this is good all-around advice. But a Superspeed will let you get away with driving too fast. A NEW will let you use an improper angle. Some razors are fine with a little pressure.

But the Old Lady knows what she wants, and expects it. Every time. Give an Old Type what she wants, and she will reward you with as close and smooth a shave as any razor ever designed. But always respect her.

It took me a couple disappointing shaves with my first Old Type to dial it in. Now it’s top of my rotation along with the NEW SC.
Thanks Gent,
1 and 2 points are good all-around for life in general!
I'll keep your words in mind as I lay the blade onto my skin.
 
You're welcome. Just trying to help!

@Esox knows all about this, too
I did take a look at it with magnification and there was a little nib just back from the edge on one corner. I took some 500 grit paper on a flat surface and got all 4 corners shined up a little as well as a very thin line of new metal between the corners. I did about as little to it as possible and still got a good result.

Is that edge on the cap supposed to be straight (flat) from one end to the other or is there a little "spring built into it so that when you cinch everything up it all clamps evenly on the blade?

I did manage to measure the cap and it is around .084 thick. Does that coincide with what we know about the thick cap era?

Preciate everyone!
Dirty
 
Here is an excellent source of dating info. If you click on the hi-lighted heading they take you to more detailed pages, and on those pages if you click on the hi-lighted areas... well you know. Click enough times and you can end up at mr. razor where there are photos of your razor in brand new condition.
That page is how I ended up on B&B.
 

Esox

I didnt know
Staff member
@Esox knows all about this, too

Wow. I've finally made it. I've been suggested by Doug as a source of information! Most of what I know has been learned from him and others far more knowledgeable than myself.


I hate to take a file to it but if that is what it takes it will be worth it.

Its pretty common for Old Types to be tweaked out of shape. They're old and the brass is thin and soft. The first thing to look at on Old Types are the cap corners. See my Single Ring below.

Before. Notice the 'feet' on the corners of the cap and how that lets the blade basically hover over the baseplate. Imagine how it might vibrate as you shave with it like that.
before (2).jpg


Those 'feet', for lack of a better word, stopped the cap from clamping the blade to the baseplate. 30 seconds with a steel nail file gave me this.

After.
after (2).JPG


Before I filed those feet off it was almost impossible to shave with that razor. Those 30 seconds spent turned that razor into a wonderfully smooth shaver.

Those razors can get bent over the span of 100 years but most are easily fixed.

The bases can also be bent and/or twisted. They can be fixed too, but it needs to be done slowly and carefully.

The bases an also be bent.

before_02.JPG


After about 5 minutes of careful work with a plastic hammer against a hard surface.

after_02.jpg


Its still not perfect, but it is very smooth.

With Gillette Old Types, ideally, there should be no blade gap at all and when fully tightened the blade should lay firmly against the flats on the top of the teeth in the comb. My made in Canada thick cap Old below that is perfectly straight.

Canadian.jpg

I hear they tend to be a little aggressive.

A nice straight and true Old Type shouldnt be 'aggressive' at all. With the negative blade exposure and virtually no blade gap at all, once you find the angle, you shouldnt feel anything but the cap or teeth. Master it with a fresh Feather blade and you'll receive one of the nicest shaves capable from a DE. There is a learning curve however. We tend to want to feel the blade and shaving without feeling the blade seems unnatural so we can have a tendency to increase pressure or steepen the angle until we can feel the blade. Thats a mistake. The trick I learned was to not try to feel the blade cutting, but instead listen to hear the blade cutting without feeling it.
 
Thanks Esox and others,

Well I tried it and I thought I'd give an update.

My two day old stubble was shouting out for a refinement.

After showering, I mixed up a rather impressive batch of Proraso cream. I placed a fresh Bic in the old timer and gave it a shot. It does seem to be a little more aggressive than my other razors (mainly TTO's and the Tech. The experience I got was similar to the first time I tried a 40's Tech. You just need to wade in and learn. The Tech taught me about blade angle and "riding the cap". There are lessons to be learned from the Old Type. Maybe some refinement of the razor. Maybe some changes in my approach. I'm anxious to find out.

I finished up with a cold rinse and a splash of Nivea After.

This old girl needs my respect and a little help like an elderly friend.
I did manage to get a decent shave with only one weeper which I have occasionally.

Esox,
Your help was on point. I may need to look at the base plate as well. My first problem with the cap is at least a lot better now.
The condition of this razor would lead me to believe the base plate is good but I will need to check.

Enjoying the help,
Dirty:c9:
 
Wow. I've finally made it. I've been suggested by Doug as a source of information! Most of what I know has been learned from him and others far more knowledgeable than myself.




Its pretty common for Old Types to be tweaked out of shape. They're old and the brass is thin and soft. The first thing to look at on Old Types are the cap corners. See my Single Ring below.



The bases can also be bent and/or twisted. They can be fixed too, but it needs to be done slowly and carefully.





A nice straight and true Old Type shouldnt be 'aggressive' at all. With the negative blade exposure and virtually no blade gap at all, once you find the angle, you shouldnt feel anything but the cap or teeth. Master it with a fresh Feather blade and you'll receive one of the nicest shaves capable from a DE. There is a learning curve however. We tend to want to feel the blade and shaving without feeling the blade seems unnatural so we can have a tendency to increase pressure or steepen the angle until we can feel the blade. Thats a mistake. The trick I learned was to not try to feel the blade cutting, but instead listen to hear the blade cutting without feeling it.
Well said.When I first sent my old type off to BRG, Chris responded saying, "I hope you didn't try shaving with this!". I'd mentioned the coned screw on the original cap and that when I was initially cleaning it, the handle was full is rank bits of cotton (a common remedy in the old days when the threads were getting wonky, according to Chris. He said the old timers used cotton or string stuffed in the handle to secure the cap). What I had done after cleaning was stuff a couple toothpicks in it which secured the head but the razor damn near tried killing me. Short of it is, once I got it back with two new caps, thin and thck, it shaved great. Don't think I've put a Feather in it yet but at this stage I could and get a great shave.

You're absolutely correct in saying what one should feel with this razor when adjusted to or found in original condition. I find I use a lighter touch with the Old Type just because I'm still not used to open combs but it gives a wicked good shave.
 
I did look at my parts and found that the cap and base are both slightly curved. When tightened it seems like everything cinches down real well. My little feet at the corners of the cap are not in play. I'm wondering if a slight curve is actually a desirable thing.
 
A little more info has come to light. I did a little experiment with aluminum foil (.0005 thick). I cut some small 1/4" wide pieces and put them in several spots were the blade would be and tightened it. The foil was held tight. That would tell me that the clamping pressure is pretty even once the cap was tight. So, even with a somewhat croked parts they seem to cinch up tight. I think a little curve is actually beneficial.

Another variable is where the clamping pressure is applied. I assume that this should be at the outermost edge of the cap. If the cap has been dented/worn then the outer edge may have changed its shape and even though flat, it might change the position of where the blade was held. In other words you could have a flat surface under a cap that was curved and the blade would be held tight but at different spots on the blade (overhang?) I'm not that "up" on the clamping theory on a blade like this.

Then again I may be over thinking this a little.

If I can make a few changes to this razor and have it reach its full potential well then what's the harm in that.

Oh and is it really a good idea to put a small fiber/plastic washer under the base?

I've heard of doing that but haven't been convinced.

Dirty
 
A little update on my "old style" journey.

I did some looking at the razor with blade through a jewelers loupe and found that there were lots of inconsistencies in the gap above and below the blade from end to end.

I took a few more swipes on the cap with some 500 grit making sure I kept the same angles to ensure the clamping action takes place at the edge of the cap.

I reassemble and checked again. It was better but still not consistent. It seemed worse on one side and, after flipping the cap, the problem remained on the same side. So..... lets look at the base plate.

It was, as I mentioned before, somewhat dished in the middle. No way this happened through misuse or a drop. Maybe if ma used it to chock up the back wheels of the '52 Buick while dad changed the front tire. But then again, that may not do it either. That is a strong chunk of material. I suspended the ends on may work bench and placed an "acorn" style nut (think hardware) with the domed end resting on the middle hole of the plate. Then I used a small C-Clamp to straighten the piece. I got it close then went over that edge just behind the comb with some 500 grit on a flat surface paying attention to the area just under the edge of the cap where I assume the clamping takes place.

Reassembled and the light came on! Very consistent gaps.

I just shaved with it and it is better but still a little aggressive compared to my other razors. Oh and I was using a one shave Nacet that has been in and out of the razor maybe 12 times in the last day or so.

My intention is to make this my daily driver for a while and try different blades. Maybe polish the comb teeth a little more. I've got paper up to 2000 grit and some polishing compound as well. That would be more cosmetic than anything.

Any further advise? Does anyone have a great blade in mind for this type of razor?

Thanks
Dirty
 
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