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Intermediate hones advice

Hi All,
Need some advice on intermediate progression stones. I've got the Naniwa Pro 800 and Naniwa SS 12k. Need some advice on filling the gap economically (I'm just an enthusiast).

I was thinking of the Naniwa Combi 3k/8k to keep things economical, but not too sure.

Progression setup:
- Naniwa Pro 800
- ??
- ??
- Naniwa SS 12k

TIA
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
I am also not an enthusiast of combo stones. With a combo stone, it is about impossible to prevent cross contamination of grits between the two sides when using them. If within your budget, best to get separate stones.
 
Since you are bracketed so far with Naniwa stones (and seem to want to stay with Naniwa) you could put the Naniwa Gouken series in the middle, the Hayabusa 4K and the Fuji 8K, not very expensive and work really well following each other after a 1>3K bevel setter.

So I have the 800 Nani pro and I only use it for edge restorations on really hammered edges, it leaves some pretty deep scratches. IMHO most bevels don't need that much aggression, and you will have to hone ALL those 800 grit scratches out before moving on. This takes time and can lead to difficulties if you are not able to determine when and if those stria are fully removed.

If I'm going to stick with an all Naniwa progression I follow it (800 Pro) with a Nani SS 2K or a Nani pro 3K, I have both, or just set the bevel with either one of those, the budget friendly choice would be the SS. On non-damaged - chipped edges I almost never use a stone under 1>2K. I use the Pro 1K & Pro 3K quite a bit.

Then the Gouken stones, these are not very expensive and preform above there "K" ratings so would fit nicely. I like the honing feedback better than the SS and they polish above their K ratings.
The jump from the Fuji 8K to my 12K SS is very easy and with practice the 12K delivers for me a shaving edge that I could live with if I could not justify the expense of other stones or finishing systems.

So your all Naniwa progression might look like your Pro 800 if needed, then a 1>3 K SS or Pro followed by the Gouken Hayabusa 4K & Fuji 8K, then finished on your 12K SS or just about any synth or natural finisher you may choose on down the line.
I'm with bluesman 7 I don't purchase combo stones, I save up and acquire the individual stones I need or want.

These are just suggestions based on some of the synthetic stones I currently have and use, there are many others that would work just as well.
The Shapton Glass 1K>4K>8K I also use and are very fast and efficient, would fit nicely in your set-up, but I wouldn't recommend them for people just starting out and they are somewhat expensive.

Hope these ideas help.

Frank
 
Since you are bracketed so far with Naniwa stones (and seem to want to stay with Naniwa) you could put the Naniwa Gouken series in the middle, the Hayabusa 4K and the Fuji 8K, not very expensive and work really well following each other after a 1>3K bevel setter.

So I have the 800 Nani pro and I only use it for edge restorations on really hammered edges, it leaves some pretty deep scratches. IMHO most bevels don't need that much aggression, and you will have to hone ALL those 800 grit scratches out before moving on. This takes time and can lead to difficulties if you are not able to determine when and if those stria are fully removed.

If I'm going to stick with an all Naniwa progression I follow it (800 Pro) with a Nani SS 2K or a Nani pro 3K, I have both, or just set the bevel with either one of those, the budget friendly choice would be the SS. On non-damaged - chipped edges I almost never use a stone under 1>2K. I use the Pro 1K & Pro 3K quite a bit.

Then the Gouken stones, these are not very expensive and preform above there "K" ratings so would fit nicely. I like the honing feedback better than the SS and they polish above their K ratings.
The jump from the Fuji 8K to my 12K SS is very easy and with practice the 12K delivers for me a shaving edge that I could live with if I could not justify the expense of other stones or finishing systems.

So your all Naniwa progression might look like your Pro 800 if needed, then a 1>3 K SS or Pro followed by the Gouken Hayabusa 4K & Fuji 8K, then finished on your 12K SS or just about any synth or natural finisher you may choose on down the line.
I'm with bluesman 7 I don't purchase combo stones, I save up and acquire the individual stones I need or want.

These are just suggestions based on some of the synthetic stones I currently have and use, there are many others that would work just as well.
The Shapton Glass 1K>4K>8K I also use and are very fast and efficient, would fit nicely in your set-up, but I wouldn't recommend them for people just starting out and they are somewhat expensive.

Hope these ideas help.

Frank
Thanks for the detailed advice. What about the Naniwa Gouken Kagayaki stones in the 1k, 3k, 5k, 8k, then my SS 12K?


 
Thanks for the detailed advice. What about the Naniwa Gouken Kagayaki stones in the 1k, 3k, 5k, 8k, then my SS 12K?


My understanding is that they are more or less the same as the super stones. Maybe they did something to the resin binder, or something.
Allot of people like these stones, especially the super stones. I only have the 8k and the 12. They give good result, but if feedback (feels like rubber) and loading will bother you, i would get something else.
I have a full set of Naniwa Gouken stones 1k, 4k and 8k. The 4k and the 8k is really nice to use. I think they really shine when used as a system. The 4k is relatively soft, but somehow the 8k Fuji compliments the 4k really well. To me it seems like the 8k Fuji gives a better edge then the 8k super stone. There is a reason i have never touched my super stones after i got these.
The super stones are also quite thin. The stones i have seem to warp or bend a little. I ended up gluing my 8k to a piece of slate. They will stabilize if allowed to soak a little.
The Gouken stones are more stable and thicker. You can get the kagayaki in 20 mm thickness to, but then they are more expensive.
 
I use the DMT 8k exclusively as my midrange hone for razors these days. DMT 1.2 > DMT 8k > Finisher. I love it. For a few years after getting it I kept trying everything midrange I could snag to try and improve on the process and everything I tried was a MASSIVE step backwards.

It's let me get a massive collection of finishers and ignore everything else (again, for razors... I use all kinds of stuff with knives and tools). But it IS a bit of a unique hone. You don't treat it like anything else really. There's a very slight learning curve on proper pressure and You MUST keep the surface clean... and it doesn't really SHOW when it's dirty. This means you need to treat it like an oilstone that you LOVE and scrub it regularly... after each use is ideal (but with razors every 3-10 razors is acceptable).

A handful of guys have tried it often based mostly on my recommendation and most (maybe all) of them didn't like it. It's just too different from the waterstone most people are used to for this stage of razor honing. But if you put in the time... it's almost cheating how fast it is and how perfect the edges it leaves are (to be followed up by a finisher).


If I didn't have a DMT 8k? Uhh, probably a nice 4-6k(JIS) waterstone? Naniwa, Shapton (not exactly JIS, but close enough), Sigma Power, etc. Coticules are good at this stage too (as are a few other nats) but variability (getting a stone that works great in this stage) can be a risk... and with razors, the advantages of a nice fast synth really stand out everywhere before finishing in my experience.

If you DO want a coticule for this stage. The fast side yellow from the Les Lat Layer (not the hybrid itself), or a fast La Veinnette would be my preference. Other than a coticule? A fast Jnat that isn't quite a razor finisher is a great option.
 
My understanding is that they are more or less the same as the super stones. Maybe they did something to the resin binder, or something.
Allot of people like these stones, especially the super stones. I only have the 8k and the 12. They give good result, but if feedback (feels like rubber) and loading will bother you, i would get something else.
I have a full set of Naniwa Gouken stones 1k, 4k and 8k. The 4k and the 8k is really nice to use. I think they really shine when used as a system. The 4k is relatively soft, but somehow the 8k Fuji compliments the 4k really well. To me it seems like the 8k Fuji gives a better edge then the 8k super stone. There is a reason i have never touched my super stones after i got these.
The super stones are also quite thin. The stones i have seem to warp or bend a little. I ended up gluing my 8k to a piece of slate. They will stabilize if allowed to soak a little.
The Gouken stones are more stable and thicker. You can get the kagayaki in 20 mm thickness to, but then they are more expensive.
Exactly which 1k stone is it that you have? There's a few different ones.

How do you store the thicker Gouken stones?
 
If you are finishing on a 12k the mid grit stones do not matter, as long as you remove the previous grit’s stria in the progression.

Learn to hone on synthetics, once you can get great shaves consistently on the 12k and possibly paste, Chrome Oxide, then experiment with Natural stone.

No one could shave with a razor properly finished on a 12k or Jnat and tell which mid-grit stones were used.
 
Exactly which 1k stone is it that you have? There's a few different ones.

How do you store the thicker Gouken stones?
I think i have the Kyroto 1k. I got a set of 4 stones. I just store them on top of the included plastic boxes flat at an angle for better ventilation. This one soaks a little water and is quite hard. This is the only 1k stone i have, so i have nothing to compare it to in this grit. The 3k pro stone seems to cut just as fast and polish better.
 
I use the DMT 8k exclusively as my midrange hone for razors these days. DMT 1.2 > DMT 8k > Finisher. I love it. For a few years after getting it I kept trying everything midrange I could snag to try and improve on the process and everything I tried was a MASSIVE step backwards.

It's let me get a massive collection of finishers and ignore everything else (again, for razors... I use all kinds of stuff with knives and tools). But it IS a bit of a unique hone. You don't treat it like anything else really. There's a very slight learning curve on proper pressure and You MUST keep the surface clean... and it doesn't really SHOW when it's dirty. This means you need to treat it like an oilstone that you LOVE and scrub it regularly... after each use is ideal (but with razors every 3-10 razors is acceptable).

A handful of guys have tried it often based mostly on my recommendation and most (maybe all) of them didn't like it. It's just too different from the waterstone most people are used to for this stage of razor honing. But if you put in the time... it's almost cheating how fast it is and how perfect the edges it leaves are (to be followed up by a finisher).


If I didn't have a DMT 8k? Uhh, probably a nice 4-6k(JIS) waterstone? Naniwa, Shapton (not exactly JIS, but close enough), Sigma Power, etc. Coticules are good at this stage too (as are a few other nats) but variability (getting a stone that works great in this stage) can be a risk... and with razors, the advantages of a nice fast synth really stand out everywhere before finishing in my experience.

If you DO want a coticule for this stage. The fast side yellow from the Les Lat Layer (not the hybrid itself), or a fast La Veinnette would be my preference. Other than a coticule? A fast Jnat that isn't quite a razor finisher is a great option.
How did you breake in the dmt 8k? I have a narrow one. I did not like the result i got, but i guess mine was not properly broken in.
Looking under manification, even after a well used 1200 dmt the bevel looks perfect. It is really tempting to use these.
 
I think i have the Kyroto 1k. I got a set of 4 stones. I just store them on top of the included plastic boxes flat at an angle for better ventilation. This one soaks a little water and is quite hard. This is the only 1k stone i have, so i have nothing to compare it to in this grit. The 3k pro stone seems to cut just as fast and polish better.
I can't seem find the Kyroto 1k anywhere. Also can't seem to find the Goukens Hayabusa and Fuji with included plastic boxes. Do you have a link to where you bought them from?
 
Thinking of either of the following progressions:

Option 1
- Naniwa 800
- Naniwa Combi 3k/8k
- Naniwa SS 12k

Option 2
- Naniwa Pro 1k (use the 800 for kitchen knives only)
- Naniwa Hayabusa 4k
- Naniwa Fuji 8k
- Naniwa SS 12k

Option 1 would be the more economical choice as I would have to buy only the Combi 3k/8k.

Option 2 seems to be recommended here, but more costly, unless I go straight from the 800 to the Hayabusa 4k.

Does it really matter which option I go with if I finish on the Naniwa SS 12k on either setup?
 
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