Interesting info on Cutler's green hone

[rideon66]

So in looking at old articles on hones I came across one from 1833-1834. It talked of the Cutler's green hone under the slates and said it was so hard and close of nature that it was only applicable of use for cutlers and instrument makers for giving the last edge of the lancet and other delicate surgical instruments. It has here to only been found in the Snowden mountains of North Wales.

Based on what I have been reading they talk of the llyn idwal being much like the Charnwood only harder and were more expensive. Being the llyn idwal is from Wales I would guess the fabled Cutler's Green Hone is harder than the typical hard llyn idwal and may be a harder version of one. Best description of one I have seen with a general location.

 

[rideon66]

Just realized I had seen this before word for word in a different article. Lost art press blog years ago.

 

[eKretz]

Yes I've seen this as well in my countless hours wandering/perusing old geological reports. I've always thought that the description makes it sound like the slate version of a translucent Arkansas stone really.

 

[kcb5150]

I don't believe them to be myth like some, I just think there probably aren't many surviving intact. They really really really biased reverence for hones in those days for raw cutting power so I doubt they made masses of them.

 

[kcb5150]

It's why the washita and turkish oilstones were spoke of as the benchmark as they gained penetration

 

[kcb5150]

The other thing I find interesting is that uk seems to lack reliable ultra fine options beyond silkstones and woa which aren't exactly common so if they either had a lot of cg or if it was reliably ultra fine you would think it would have become their benchmark but there are so many belgian, german and american rocks they imported many years ago in that class in england it makes you wonder if it was all drunken boasts about its prowess.

 

[rideon66]

I am actually starting to wonder if it came from the Glanrafon quarry or a near by location. Found the image of a labeled Charley Forest from the quarry and it was a slate quarry in the same mountains.

 

[Alum of Potash]

The other thing I find interesting is that uk seems to lack reliable ultra fine options beyond silkstones and woa which aren't exactly common so if they either had a lot of cg or if it was reliably ultra fine you would think it would have become their benchmark but there are so many belgian, german and american rocks they imported many years ago in that class in england it makes you wonder if it was all drunken boasts about its prowess.

I dunno, I've found AJ's Welsh purple slate to be a reliable improvement after a coticule; ditto for his "15k Welsh 'Thuri'" in a pinch afterwards. The purple better than a bona fide Thuringian "Genuine Celebrated Water Whatever" by way of comparison for starters.

 

[kcb5150]

The purple slate is imo just ok but slate is so variable you certainly could have received an exceptional piece.

 

[Alum of Potash]

No, my opinion as stated is based on more than one example of the purple slate. But I don't want to venture further off topic here. It's just to say that there are some decent UK finishers.

 

[kcb5150]

The market kind of bears it out as well. Any given new rock gets hot for a bit and then the market retreats to thuris. There is something to be said for utter consistency at high levels

 

[kcb5150]

They are decent but I wouldn't put them in the same class as that. Go check out the german markets and see what is there in that zone. Thuris, the odd troutstone, more thuris, cotis from belgium. It's just particularly glaring how many imported hones in that fineness class there are in the uk even after several years of being heavily ebay picked. Keep springing up in disused shape. It's like quarries in the uk failed to identify a market for >10k rocks, knew it was there but lacked manpower to divert from other activities, or they didn't feel the quality was there to compete with whatever was coming in.

 

[kcb5150]

Wish Neil Miller were still with us... We lost such a resource about uk stones when he passed...

 

[Bushdoctor]

Oh yes, that can God have in his Glory, all we miss he and Henk.
I was one that have the fortune to sharing infos and also bought some of the rare stones from his collection. I keep them like little tresures.

 

[rideon66]

Would love to find the odd trout stone. Either the >10k rocks were to slow compared to what was already in use or the price and man power was to high to justify getting at them for the normal market. As you stated above they biased for raw cutting power in those days. I think they knew what was there as a lot of the old writings on hones are from pages about what minerals were where. They were figuring out what was worth mining and what the land was worth based on its contents. I think some of these where mined by locals and never really made it to the larger market. So there are many sitting in homes boxed and unlabeled that then end up on the bay as the older generation passes on.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I have what I believe is a cutler's green. It came out of an old barbers kit and is 50x50mm with a rubbing stone.

It's basically mottled green marble. Stupidly hard and slow, and the edge isn't anything special. I don't even understand the slurry stone... it's harder to slurry than a CNAT is with a tomo. Honestly, it has sat on my shelf, untouched for probably five years. If it were bigger I'd play around with it a bit more... but I owned the ONLY bigger example I've ever seen, sold it on eBay (expecting $20-30, went for ~$150) a LONG time ago, and I barely used it because it was (as I recall) the same. Hard, slow, nothing special for finish. Never seen it since. My guess is some old timer wood worker snagged it and we'll never hear from it again.


I don't know the quality of the LM (purple slate) that is being dug up now. But I kept the best of about 10 vintage ones I've owned. It works quite well on a VERY small number of razors (likes a very particular, quite hard steel), and very mediocre on most others. They weren't intended for razors, but for tools, and I expect they're pretty decent in that capacity. I hate them for knives personally, but I think if I did plane blades or chisels I'd find them more useful.



Charnley and LI's get reasonably fine... but don't compare to Thuri's imho. Silkstones based on what I've seen don't either (small sample). WoA isn't bad, but again. I wouldn't take it over a good coti or thuri.

UK has a lot of stones that work for a razor in a pinch. But there's a reason you find a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of cotis, thuris, and even a few hard arkansas over there... and it's NOT because their own stones were too expensive (they were actually relatively cheap).

What they do have is GREAT woodworkers and kitchen stones. Good Charnleys and Tam O's are fantastic to use.

 

[Bowmaker]

I have what I believe is a cutler's green. It came out of an old barbers kit and is 50x50mm with a rubbing stone.

It's basically mottled green marble. Stupidly hard and slow, and the edge isn't anything special. I don't even understand the slurry stone... it's harder to slurry than a CNAT is with a tomo. Honestly, it has sat on my shelf, untouched for probably five years. If it were bigger I'd play around with it a bit more... but I owned the ONLY bigger example I've ever seen, sold it on eBay (expecting $20-30, went for ~$150) a LONG time ago, and I barely used it because it was (as I recall) the same. Hard, slow, nothing special for finish. Never seen it since. My guess is some old timer wood worker snagged it and we'll never hear from it again.


I don't know the quality of the LM (purple slate) that is being dug up now. But I kept the best of about 10 vintage ones I've owned. It works quite well on a VERY small number of razors (likes a very particular, quite hard steel), and very mediocre on most others. They weren't intended for razors, but for tools, and I expect they're pretty decent in that capacity. I hate them for knives personally, but I think if I did plane blades or chisels I'd find them more useful.



Charnley and LI's get reasonably fine... but don't compare to Thuri's imho. Silkstones based on what I've seen don't either (small sample). WoA isn't bad, but again. I wouldn't take it over a good coti or thuri.

UK has a lot of stones that work for a razor in a pinch. But there's a reason you find a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of cotis, thuris, and even a few hard arkansas over there... and it's NOT because their own stones were too expensive (they were actually relatively cheap).

What they do have is GREAT woodworkers and kitchen stones. Good Charnleys and Tam O's are fantastic to use.

You still have the Green? Similiar to some of these?
Cambrian Green — Заточи Клинок (zatochiklinok.ru)

 

[SliceOfLife]

Nope. It looked more like jade than anything else but no translucency and far darker.