This is not a political post...more scientific. How did they reach concensus minutes after the explosion about it being technical difficulties? The plane was ascending normally. And now, after listening to the black box recorded audio, they no longer want to hand it over to Boeing... Just saying.
Interesting about that 737..
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After 24 years of being a pilot in the Air Force, I learned conjecture is almost always incorrect.
It does make them look like they're hiding something but turning the black box over to Boeing isn't necessarily a good idea either. With all of Boeing's 737 Max difficulties, people are likely to think they'd sweep problems under the rug. The best way to investigate this would be to have an impartial third party do it. The Iranians are probably not eager right now to work with the NTSB who would investigate the cause in the US. I saw the Ukrainian government sent a plane to Tehran today so I imagine they're working on a way forward on this.
Unfortunately, it's probably impossible not to have politics get into this. Looking for how long this topic runs before getting locked down or just disappearing.
There is no consensus. Latest reports from credible sources are that the Iranian government announced engine failure and Ukraine has withdrawn announcement of any possible cause.
It is not clear whether either country has the technology to analyze the data recorders. By rule Iran is allowed to lead the investigation but if they don’t involve Boeing it is not known whether they’ll get anything useful with it. Many of the passengers had Canadian citizenship so there may be pressure to have Canada intervene.
I’m sure we won’t know anything solid beyond that for at least a few days if not longer but I doubt anyone would successfully be able to hide the true cause for long if it isn’t engine failure.
The 737 (NG and older) are pitch sensitive aircraft. Gun the engine, and it wants to climb (a lot). Pilots train for this. If it is a Max, the problem is worse, due to the engines being moved forward to compensate for the larger inlet diameter on new engines- center of gravity is even crazier. Unfortunately, Boeing covered up this fact, and since they pay the FAA off, it slipped through. You cannot trust corporations to police themselves.
See? Here's a whiff of politics already. Will only point out on this that first we have the assertion of Boeing bribing the FAA, followed by the assertion that you cannot trust corporations to police themselves. The FAA isn't Boeing, but if (and a great big industrial sized if at that) they were bribed by Boeing, then government oversight doesn't work so well, either. Just something I find amusing while in a per-caffinated state.
Trying to go for non-politics here, the problems of the 737 does not eliminate other causes. The question is which best fits the information that we know. This is that air traffic control abruptly lost contact with the plane, and the pilot did not radio that they were having problems prior to that point.
The problems with the 737 seems to be a stability issue (from this non-pilot's understanding), which doesn't result immediate failure. So even if a pilot and copilot have their hands full, this doesn't result in a loss of contact until air traffic control can no longer pick up the flight (transponder and/or radar). So unless they were very close to the ground, that doesn't quite fit. Other, speculative, causes does.
As it turns out, Ukraine wants to check the crash site for debris from a Russian missile. That doesn't mean it was shot down, only that is a good fit for what is known.
The Iranians are making a number of claims, including that the plane had turned around and was heading back to the airport. But that doesn't fit with what was previously known. Either the previous information is wrong, or the new claim is.
And right here we have politics, too. Because whether anyone trusts the NTSB or Boeing or the Iranians or the Ukrainians more ultimately get into political views.
Trying to go for non-politics here, the problems of the 737 does not eliminate other causes. The question is which best fits the information that we know. This is that air traffic control abruptly lost contact with the plane, and the pilot did not radio that they were having problems prior to that point.
The problems with the 737 seems to be a stability issue (from this non-pilot's understanding), which doesn't result immediate failure. So even if a pilot and copilot have their hands full, this doesn't result in a loss of contact until air traffic control can no longer pick up the flight (transponder and/or radar). So unless they were very close to the ground, that doesn't quite fit. Other, speculative, causes does.
As it turns out, Ukraine wants to check the crash site for debris from a Russian missile. That doesn't mean it was shot down, only that is a good fit for what is known.
The Iranians are making a number of claims, including that the plane had turned around and was heading back to the airport. But that doesn't fit with what was previously known. Either the previous information is wrong, or the new claim is.
And right here we have politics, too. Because whether anyone trusts the NTSB or Boeing or the Iranians or the Ukrainians more ultimately get into political views.
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
If it's Boeing I'm not going.
If anyone wants to check out Bellingcat on twitter, they collected a bunch of evidence from social media on MH17 back when that happened. Right now, they're seeing if they can verify a pic someone posted of a Tor (SA-15 SAM) guidance section near the crash site. There's a lot of misinformation out there on the internet so it takes a while to find corroborating evidence, especially in a place like Iran. But if that checks out, it'll probably be a big part of answering the question.
The cozy relationship between Boeing and the FAA transcends political parties- it is a problem that goes back years.
There was an interesting article I read a week or two ago about the Boeing / McDonnell-Douglas merger and how it led to Boeing's current troubles. It's worth checking out.
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Thanks OC. I really didn't know the 411 on this topic and it seems you've kind of summed it up with ease. Thanks
That seemed like you were just trolling but I googled it and it looks like Al Jazeera did reference that article in one of theirs. Al Jazeera has its biases, like any news source. If you take the time to understand how they shade things, they still produce useful info. In the early 2000's they were probably the best source for news on Afghanistan.There are two articles, one by Al Jazeera
Source please.
Power controls altitude in any aircraft as increased airflow over the wings creates lift.
@cbsnews: US officials are confident Ukrainian Flt 752 was shot down by Iran. US intelligence picked up signals of the radar being turned on & satellite detected infrared blips of 2 missile launches, probably SA-15s, followed shortly by another infrared blip of an explosion.
Politics transcends political parties, and different schools of political thought have different views of things.
From hazy memory, a problem with the 737 was that the software would misinterpret sensor information under certain situations, causing the plane to crash. Even more hazy memory recalls an instance where an off-duty pilot was riding in a 737 cockpit when this very thing happened. He was aware of the problem, and told the pilot and co-pilot how to correct it. The result was that 737 didn't crash.
This was why initial speculation when the problem became public centered on applying a software patch. Except it turned out to be more complicated than that.
Food for thought: If the 737 is an inheritantly dangerous design, then why were the Ukrainians still flying it?
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