Improving the neck shave. Blade chatter, angles and atg.
- Thread starter Samon
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Chandu
I Waxed The Badger.
Not sure where you are, but if you can get a Schone or Fatip, you will have a chatter free razor that is reasonably priced. $21 at AMZ in the US for a Schone, which is a Fatip under a different name. That is an open comb, if you want a closed comb look for a Fatip Gentile. They are good razors, solid brass, event the head.
I struggled with my neck until I switched to a SR. No issues since then.
If you don’t want to make the switch, the following techniques may help. Stretch the skin, ride the cap, go slightly but not fully against the grain. Sharp stiff blades like a Feather AC blade in a Vector help too.
If you don’t want to make the switch, the following techniques may help. Stretch the skin, ride the cap, go slightly but not fully against the grain. Sharp stiff blades like a Feather AC blade in a Vector help too.
Just some thoughts from me. I have very thick, coarse neck hair that lies very flat and more or less connects up with my chest hair. I switched to DE around 11 years ago and my shaves improved a LOT. But ATG never worked despite hundreds of hours of practice with carefully controlled ‘experiments’ based on info from esteemed B&B members. Pain/irritation/blood etc.
I recently started using a vintage Schick injector. Bought from ‘the famous auction site’ and for £10 GBP ($15 US approx) I got the razor and 20 blades. The much thicker blade and the head geometry work very well for me and I can do an almost ATG pass now. If you are US based there seems to be a far greater choice of vintage Injector stuff online and the new Parker Injector is available too (as well as the more premium Supply razor).
For many years I bought the line that ‘DE is the best and it is your fault if you can’t go ATG’. I was told as much many times - ‘you are using too much pressure, your angle is wrong, your prep is bad.’ The deficit model if you like! However, I tried something else on a whim and it simply worked!
I recently started using a vintage Schick injector. Bought from ‘the famous auction site’ and for £10 GBP ($15 US approx) I got the razor and 20 blades. The much thicker blade and the head geometry work very well for me and I can do an almost ATG pass now. If you are US based there seems to be a far greater choice of vintage Injector stuff online and the new Parker Injector is available too (as well as the more premium Supply razor).
For many years I bought the line that ‘DE is the best and it is your fault if you can’t go ATG’. I was told as much many times - ‘you are using too much pressure, your angle is wrong, your prep is bad.’ The deficit model if you like! However, I tried something else on a whim and it simply worked!
After a good hot tap water washcloth beard soak and making a good lather, I shave ATG always Riding the Cap, angling the razor (like a guillotine blade) for me this also eliminates razor hop or scrape.
Each of us have a favorite razor or razors and blade, that work for us. Pick the razor that you like best and get a sample pack of blades and finally select the blade that is sharp enough and most comfortable to use.
Too many passes is another reason for irritation. Good luck in finding the right technique that is best for you
Each of us have a favorite razor or razors and blade, that work for us. Pick the razor that you like best and get a sample pack of blades and finally select the blade that is sharp enough and most comfortable to use.
Too many passes is another reason for irritation. Good luck in finding the right technique that is best for you
In my opinion the number of passes is irrelevant. What counts is the number of strokes.
In the study posted earlier there is a table describing just that.
In the study posted earlier there is a table describing just that.
Have you tried using a single edge blade?
Yo, I'm looking for some tips on improving my neck shave when going atg. I'll give you a quick rundown on my setup and I have a few questions too. I only use a fatip piccolo and schone which are essentially the same razor. I make the effort of bathing before a shave, I make sure I have plenty of lather during the shave, sometimes using preshave oil while never over exfoliating and I shave with little pressure and try to do few passes. However, this is all fine and dandy for ***, Xtg passes but my beard (fine/medium coarseness and density) especially on my neck grows very parallel to my skin and I cannot get a close shave unless I go atg. But going atg often causes redness and discomfort depending on blade which I'd like to rememdy, I do have a few blades which are great but would like to understand and use the others I have too. I shave neutral or steep wtg as it's comfier. But this feels horrible atg, so I go very shallow as this not only cuts more efficiently but doesn't make a horrible clicking sound on my stubble. I have sensitive skin also so fewer but longer passes the better.
I'm trying to figure a few things and I hope you can help.
1.what is it called when the blade makes that horrible clicking chattery sound against my whiskers when going atg? Shaving shallow makes it stop.
2.why do some blades click and chatter atg despite being sharper than others? Wilkinson sword German was sharp but quite horrible, treet platinum was excellent but not as sharp. I tried a Kai blade as it is thicker and although it's decently sharp shallow atg was only ok. Gave me irritation still. Nacet is overall the best.
3.with my razor and my parallel beard growth, is there an angle Im not trying that might be better than very shallow? I have consciously tried various angles already though.
4. Why exactly is it some people's skin is seemingly indestructible and can take excessive razor passes while others can only handle a few? I never typically had any issues going atg with a straight razor, this is somewhat a de occurance.
So, what say the gurus? Any advice on how to max out my results? Anything I've missed over the years?
Cheers
Haha. I love #4, as I often wonder the same thing.
I wonder if the issue with the neck area is down to DE's themselves. Would they be missed if you went back to straights?..or even shavettes?
I'm not sure if what I'm about to say will be useful or even considered, but In my experience, the issue could be down to angles....
With DE's, I got decent shaves but would catch a good batch of irritation from time to time. I came to the conclusion that in order to get those hairs with a DE, it could only be done with an ATG pass and a touch of pressure. However, because the angle of all DE's is forced to be wider than parallel, I found that the blades were 'scraping' as well as shaving. Needless to say, for those few bad shaves, it wasn't fun.
Since switching to Shavettes, I'm able to hold an angle that is more flush to the skin so that the hairs are sliced right at the surface, rather than having to sort of 'scrape' them off. This is the only way that I am able to get the job done, consistently, without grazing the skin to the point where irritation is bound to happen.
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.......as an alternative, you could try to get your hands on a vintage GEM-style razor. You can find them at a very reasonable cost. Usually around the $10 mark. The single edge blades they use are thicker and much more rigid than DE blades. If you do end up going that route, see if the seller will throw in a blade or 2 for you to try.
That said, when it comes to dealing with a situation such as yours, I feel the real highlight of this type of razor would be the flat head design.
Here are a few examples.
Out of the few that I've tried, I personally like the GEM G-bar the best....which is not pictured below.
That said, when it comes to dealing with a situation such as yours, I feel the real highlight of this type of razor would be the flat head design.
Here are a few examples.
Out of the few that I've tried, I personally like the GEM G-bar the best....which is not pictured below.
Attachments
I wanted to recommend a razor that doesn't get a ton of attention for those that have struggled with blade chatter. First though, a little background. I got into wet shaving because when I used carts I would always get ingrown hairs and irritation on my neck if I tried to shave more than twice a week. I eventually settled on a titanium Timeless .68 because it clamps the blade better than most de razors and gave me the smoothest, most irritation free shaves I've ever had with no blade chatter as long as I was careful around my adams apple and the corners of my mouth. Still though, the Timeless would bite occasionally.
Today, I found a new champion of smoothness and it's the Blackland Sabre. It absolutely plowed through the whiskers on my adams apple and the corners of my mouth with not even a hint that it was about to start chattering. I know it's hard to make huge pronouncements after just one shave but this is the best first shave I've ever had bar none. It's better than my Timeless shaves and I've been using that razor for about 6 months continuously.
The only drawback to the Sabre is that the head is larger than most de razors, even with the innovative design, and that makes getting under the nose a little more difficult. I solved that problem though by going xtg under my nose for the first pass and it worked perfectly.
As someone who has always struggled with blade chatter in a few spots I can't tell you how glad I am that I found this razor. I'm not affiliated with Blackland in any way, I just wanted to pass along my experience. I decided to try the razor because I almost never see a negative post about it and now I understand why. Given Blackland's 30 day return policy I don't think you can go wrong by giving it a shot if you struggle with blade chatter.
Blade used was a Personna GEM SS PTFE and I used the level 1 plate. This razor also requires a more steep angle than de razors.
Today, I found a new champion of smoothness and it's the Blackland Sabre. It absolutely plowed through the whiskers on my adams apple and the corners of my mouth with not even a hint that it was about to start chattering. I know it's hard to make huge pronouncements after just one shave but this is the best first shave I've ever had bar none. It's better than my Timeless shaves and I've been using that razor for about 6 months continuously.
The only drawback to the Sabre is that the head is larger than most de razors, even with the innovative design, and that makes getting under the nose a little more difficult. I solved that problem though by going xtg under my nose for the first pass and it worked perfectly.
As someone who has always struggled with blade chatter in a few spots I can't tell you how glad I am that I found this razor. I'm not affiliated with Blackland in any way, I just wanted to pass along my experience. I decided to try the razor because I almost never see a negative post about it and now I understand why. Given Blackland's 30 day return policy I don't think you can go wrong by giving it a shot if you struggle with blade chatter.
Blade used was a Personna GEM SS PTFE and I used the level 1 plate. This razor also requires a more steep angle than de razors.
I have a similar issue to the OP. (And like some here proposed, I ordered an MMOC and am eagerly waiting to see how it fares against those flat hairs on my neck).
In the meantime, I did find a satisfying solution for the painful neck ATG pass. It might not be popular here, but for me the preshave oil did the trick. I put it just before the ATG pass and it does wonders for me. No pain on that pass, plus I can even buff without irritation. And for whatever reason it doesn't kill my lather, like for some members here. They seem to coexist perfectly.
Mind that even with the preshave oil you still need a blade that works for you. A crappy blade won't suddenly become magically efficient just because you put another protective layer on your face.
In the meantime, I did find a satisfying solution for the painful neck ATG pass. It might not be popular here, but for me the preshave oil did the trick. I put it just before the ATG pass and it does wonders for me. No pain on that pass, plus I can even buff without irritation. And for whatever reason it doesn't kill my lather, like for some members here. They seem to coexist perfectly.
Mind that even with the preshave oil you still need a blade that works for you. A crappy blade won't suddenly become magically efficient just because you put another protective layer on your face.
Stroke lenght besides angle and pressure is another key element. Shorter strokes tend to cause irritation while longer don't (obviously). You just have to believe they will result in the same result as short-stroke scratching but without the irritation.
Lefonque
Even more clueless than you
Great summary
M
mtcn77
I'm new.
I do agree SR suggestions, you have to have positive blade exposure to get the hard to reach neck areas in safety razors.
I never got around to a nice clean shave with Merkur 37C, the blade is not exposed like the Yaqi Agamemnon-Globetrotter.
The Yaqi can do it, but you must ride the guard to do it - if you ride the cap, positive blade exposure will tug the blade into your skin.
Few safety razors have the aggressive blade gap that lets you ride the guard. The shaving plane has to be in front of the head angle plane and the head geometry must be flexible to tilt it forward for cap and backward for guard riding.
Generally, this is achieved by a really shallow top cap and a very flexible head geometry allowing for a huge blade gap.
Here are adjustible safety razor images to demonstrate the change in orientation;
"Orientation 1 - cap-riding" vs. "Orientation 2 - guard-riding"
It is the opposite of cap-riding:
I do agree SR suggestions, you have to have positive blade exposure to get the hard to reach neck areas in safety razors.
I never got around to a nice clean shave with Merkur 37C, the blade is not exposed like the Yaqi Agamemnon-Globetrotter.
The Yaqi can do it, but you must ride the guard to do it - if you ride the cap, positive blade exposure will tug the blade into your skin.
Few safety razors have the aggressive blade gap that lets you ride the guard. The shaving plane has to be in front of the head angle plane and the head geometry must be flexible to tilt it forward for cap and backward for guard riding.
Generally, this is achieved by a really shallow top cap and a very flexible head geometry allowing for a huge blade gap.
Here are adjustible safety razor images to demonstrate the change in orientation;
"Orientation 1 - cap-riding" vs. "Orientation 2 - guard-riding"
It is the opposite of cap-riding:
- a back-hand twist(up) makes the blade cut less aggressively whereas,
- a forward-twisting(down) of your wrist makes the blade less aggressive when cap riding. How you push against the skin is the difference between them.
