I'm Very Afraid

[SparkyLB]

...that I'm about to fall victim to Honing Acquisition Syndrome.

I was PIF'd an excellent base stone by my mentor, and I have 4 stages of Naguras, plus two different Tomos. The base stone itself is a Level 5 in hardness, and it's slick.

I am achieving a very satisfactory edge with what I have. The dreamer in me (or child that screams WANT WANT WANT!), is considering getting another base stone. Coticule? Black Surgical Ark? I don't know.

Would you folks out there agree that experimenting with a few different Tomos first, would be tantamount to a different base stone?

After reading for nearly 5 months, I understand there are many routes I can take. I could go Shapton (after bevel set) to just par 30K (or maybe TO 30K) and finish with a Tomo slurry, but don't quite feel like I know enough yet to make a mental comparison about a jumping point from synthetic 30K to a slurry--or if I'd be going down in "grit size."

I do know this--I do not wish to shave off a synthetic finisher, and diamonds are not for me.

Is there a coticule that rivals the fineness of a Tomo slurry?
Is there a natural stone out there that is itself a finisher?

I dream of a stone that I can finish my edge on using only water. I don't know if that exists.

They say of religion, the closer one gets to God, the further away he realizes he is.

I have so many more questions than answers. The more I understand, it seems the more confused I am about the next step--or if there should even BE a next step.

 

[Titleist]

Is there a natural stone out there that is itself a finisher?

Sound to me like you already own one. A level 5 stone is in my opinion, a finisher in itself. My advice would be to experiment with different tomos and also to use your base stone with water only.

That's my opinion. Other's may differ and that's okay too of course.

 

[APBinNCA]

You know, Jarrod had a shipment of magic rocks in from Dan’s. Not sure if there are any left.

This way you can get quick gratification and play around with oil.

 

[SparkyLB]

Sound to me like you already own one. A level 5 stone is in my opinion, a finisher in itself. My advice would be to experiment with different tomos and also to use your base stone with water only.

That's my opinion. Other's may differ and that's okay too of course.

Good then. That's the first plan. If I could edge towards better, that would be immensely satisfying.

You know, Jarrod had a shipment of magic rocks in from Dan’s. Not sure if there are any left.

This way you can get quick gratification and play around with oil.

Magic rocks, eh? Are we talkin' Jack and The Beanstalk stuff here?

I'll check out TSS. Thanks, Aaron.

 

[camoloc]

...that I'm about to fall victim to Honing Acquisition Syndrome.

I was PIF'd an excellent base stone by my mentor, and I have 4 stages of Naguras, plus two different Tomos. The base stone itself is a Level 5 in hardness, and it's slick.

I am achieving a very satisfactory edge with what I have. The dreamer in me (or child that screams WANT WANT WANT!), is considering getting another base stone. Coticule? Black Surgical Ark? I don't know.

Would you folks out there agree that experimenting with a few different Tomos first, would be tantamount to a different base stone?

After reading for nearly 5 months, I understand there are many routes I can take. I could go Shapton (after bevel set) to just par 30K (or maybe TO 30K) and finish with a Tomo slurry, but don't quite feel like I know enough yet to make a mental comparison about a jumping point from synthetic 30K to a slurry--or if I'd be going down in "grit size."

I do know this--I do not wish to shave off a synthetic finisher, and diamonds are not for me.

Is there a coticule that rivals the fineness of a Tomo slurry?
Is there a natural stone out there that is itself a finisher?

I dream of a stone that I can finish my edge on using only water. I don't know if that exists.

They say of religion, the closer one gets to God, the further away he realizes he is.

I have so many more questions than answers. The more I understand, it seems the more confused I am about the next step--or if there should even BE a next step.

Ancient ocean jasper can be ran water only.

nice stone. for myself believe sharper than black or surgical Arks.

this is the barber hone size I purchased a while back.

i mainly stick to jnats and nagura progressions these days.

camo

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Is there a coticule that rivals the fineness of a Tomo slurry?

Maybe. There are coticules that are capable of finishing a razor very well. Whether that's finer than *a* tomo, or more to the point, finer than *your* tomo, is a different question. Buy some, try some.

Is there a natural stone out there that is itself a finisher?

Plenty, in the right hands. Arks (tranlucent and surgical blacks) are great finishers, but they're *only* finishers, where a coti or a nagura progression gives you a lot of range. And they work better with oil, or water mixed with glycerin or dish soap. Lots of laps, not much feedback... if you're into the experiential aspects of honing it may not be for you.

I dream of a stone that I can finish my edge on using only water. I don't know if that exists.

Start saving up for a Thuringian.

 

[SparkyLB]

Thanks, camo. I'll look into that. Never heard of Ancient Ocean Jasper before. Nice bone, BTW.

 

[JPO]

I was more or less were you are now more the then years ago.
My first jnat turned out to be a fantastic stone. I did not know that before I tried a bunch of other stones.
For me coticules and Arkansas stone go really well together, and can easily compete against jnat's. There are some coticules that are fantastic finishers, but you need to find the right one. They are fun to use, but there is a learning curve.
When you learn to use the different stones the difference is not that big. I enjoy the challenge and the process.

If you are just after a "better" edge, there is probably a good chance you have not reached the full potential of the stone you have already.
So what is your goal?
I wish someone had stopped me before it got out of hand

 

[SparkyLB]

Thanks a lot, Matt! I've heard of a Thuringian. They're often mentioned with another kind of stone--I remember not all Thuringians are __, but all __ ARE Thuringians. Maybe I have it backwards, but you sparked a memory.

I think this evolution is going to begin with a greater variety of Tomos. I do enjoy the feedback, but it wouldn't break my heart if I can create a light saber at the expense of its loss.

Random question, when you say that trans/black/surgical arks are ONLY finishers, I understand that means it's for use either only after a Tomo slurry or instead of a Tomo slurry. Is the only way to determine if I'm going backwards trial and error--or is there some surety that a black surgical ark, for example is a "higher grit" than my Tomo?

 

[SparkyLB]

...If you are just after a "better" edge, there is probably a good chance you have not reached the full potential of the stone you have already.
So what is your goal?
I wish someone had stopped me before it got out of hand

My goal is "yes." Seriously, though. I don't honestly know if I'm getting the best edge out of what I have. Attempting to throw subjectivity aside, I'd think given my inexperience, I'm not even close.

Hence the "rabbit hole" motif we read about so much 'round these parts. Why would I spend more when I haven't fully learned to use the tools I already have?

"I looked up circular reasoning in the dictionary. It said, "See reasoning, circular." --Steven Wright

 

[taffy]

I think you can always chase a better edge and a better stone, depends on how deep your pockets are

 

[Possum092]

It’s not the stone 99% of the time that gets the edge to next level. Skill, stone surface prep, and experience working edges are the keys to the kingdom IMHO. My buddies are proof that great stones can yield horrible results if not prepped correctly or an edge is worked incorrectly. Happy honing and hunting new stones.

 

[SparkyLB]

I think you can always chase a better edge and a better stone, depends on how deep your pockets are

Thanks, taffy. That was very grounding. I'm going to be an adult and stay clear of new base stones for the time being. Working my existing edges with newly-acquired Tomos will be the plan. It's not my intention on blowing money in search. I'm not going to buy a Ferari until I learn how to drive one. Anything else would be, well--uncivilized.

It’s not the stone 99% of the time that gets the edge to next level. Skill, stone surface prep, and experience working edges are the keys to the kingdom IMHO. My buddies are proof that great stones can yield horrible results if not prepped correctly or an edge is worked incorrectly. Happy honing and hunting new stones.

Same sentiment to you, Possum. I think if I had one strength at the moment, it would be surface prep. My mentor taught me well. What I lack is experience and skill--in that order. Time will fix the first one. Short of being an idiot, skill will evolve.

Two great replies, gentlemen. Thank you both!

 

[Possum092]

Thanks, taffy. That was very grounding. I'm going to be an adult and stay clear of new base stones for the time being. Working my existing edges with newly-acquired Tomos will be the plan. It's not my intention on blowing money in search. I'm not going to buy a Ferari until I learn how to drive one. Anything else would be, well--uncivilized.

Same sentiment to you, Possum. I think if I had one strength at the moment, it would be surface prep. My mentor taught me well. What I lack is experience and skill--in that order. Time will fix the first one. Short of being an idiot, skill will evolve.

Two great replies, gentlemen. Thank you both!

I am sure you will have it mastered very quickly. If you have experience sharpening other tools and edges…SRs are a quick study. Have fun and remember to record what works for your face. I hate grabbing a new SR after a month, loving the shave, and then trying to remember exactly what stones and finisher I used. I usually use the same kit, but occasionally I’ll try something a little different.

 

[taffy]

I am sure you will have it mastered very quickly. If you have experience sharpening other tools and edges…SRs are a quick study. Have fun and remember to record what works for your face. I hate grabbing a new SR after a month, loving the shave, and then trying to remember exactly what stones and finisher I used. I usually use the same kit, but occasionally I’ll try something a little different.

Good point about the stones used

 

[SparkyLB]

I do have to tighten up on my note-taking. I've already observed that different combinations have yielded fortunate and unforeseen results. One of my best shaves ever was after a hone stopped at Koma--never made it to Tomo. It was my first experience of ZERO pressure, hairs cutting.

 

[Titleist]

I do have to tighten up on my note-taking. I've already observed that different combinations have yielded fortunate and unforeseen results. One of my best shaves ever was after a hone stopped at Koma--never made it to Tomo. It was my first experience of ZERO pressure, hairs cutting.

Many of my very best edges were finished on Koma followed by strop and shave. And for good reason .....

Koma - コマ

Translation: ‘Fine’ – Koma Nagura is the finest and usually the most expensive of the Mikawa Shiro Nagura. In a sword polishing progression, Koma follows Chu, and it is the last step before the final polishing steps.

Source Credit: Keith Johnson - Tomanagura.com

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Thanks a lot, Matt! I've heard of a Thuringian. They're often mentioned with another kind of stone--I remember not all Thuringians are __, but all __ ARE Thuringians. Maybe I have it backwards, but you sparked a memory.

I think this evolution is going to begin with a greater variety of Tomos. I do enjoy the feedback, but it wouldn't break my heart if I can create a light saber at the expense of its loss.

Random question, when you say that trans/black/surgical arks are ONLY finishers, I understand that means it's for use either only after a Tomo slurry or instead of a Tomo slurry. Is the only way to determine if I'm going backwards trial and error--or is there some surety that a black surgical ark, for example is a "higher grit" than my Tomo?

You're probably thinking of Escher, which was a brand of Thuringian.

When I say a finishing ark is only a finisher, I mean it will refine an already good edge. Good in this case meaning shave ready or damn near. The only way to compare would be to shave test. Finish on tomo, shave, finish on ark, shave, compare.

As far as lightsabers, I don't know. A good ark should get you in the same ballpark as a good Jnat. Which one is better probably comes down the the specific rock and the guy using it.

 

[SparkyLB]

Thank you, Matt. I hope I don't skew your meaning. As I understand your post, a fine (fine quality) Ark. is comparable to a JNAT progression, with much of the weight borne by the man sitting at the rock. If that's the case, I wont be running to pick up the best Ark. I can. I would first experiment with a variety of Tomos, or as I understand @Titleist, perhaps with different Komas--or combinations of the two.

 

[FarmerTan]

Ancient ocean jasper can be ran water only.

nice stone. for myself believe sharper than black or surgical Arks.

View attachment 1484233
this is the barber hone size I purchased a while back.

i mainly stick to jnats and nagura progressions these days.

camo

Boy, that is a BEAUTIFUL stone.