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If I wanted a coticule...
- Thread starter kayvee
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I got my first coticule on amazon. That is not a recommendation, just a fact. It is a decent little rock, will take a straight from 1k to just shy of finished. Nothing 20-30 minutes on a surgical black won't cure. But be warned, they have the tendency to reproduce. Went from 1 to 10 rather quickly.
Yup, Coticules are a definite rabbit hole. I have a dozen or more and they have always left me wanting.
I came to honing and stone collecting after 10 years, honing a razor on Arks, a translucent and looking for something that would improve an Ark edge. At that time on the forums Coticules were all the rage 30 plus years ago.
I can get a decent shaving edge, but not a keen and comfortable edge like an Ark or Jnat. Don’t know your honing experience, but if you are getting pristine film edges, a Coticule may leave you wanting. Not that they are not as good, but different.
Most Coticule guys do not own just one. Buy a small one and try it, I still find them in the wild for a few dollars, you have to look.
They are somewhat technique driven stones. From a 1um film edge you will know if it is an improvement. I feel natural BBW backed stone are a bit finer than slate backed stones, but I have not bought many “new” stones.
I go to a natural from a Snow White 8k, if there is no improvement, what’s the point.
I came to honing and stone collecting after 10 years, honing a razor on Arks, a translucent and looking for something that would improve an Ark edge. At that time on the forums Coticules were all the rage 30 plus years ago.
I can get a decent shaving edge, but not a keen and comfortable edge like an Ark or Jnat. Don’t know your honing experience, but if you are getting pristine film edges, a Coticule may leave you wanting. Not that they are not as good, but different.
Most Coticule guys do not own just one. Buy a small one and try it, I still find them in the wild for a few dollars, you have to look.
They are somewhat technique driven stones. From a 1um film edge you will know if it is an improvement. I feel natural BBW backed stone are a bit finer than slate backed stones, but I have not bought many “new” stones.
I go to a natural from a Snow White 8k, if there is no improvement, what’s the point.
Similar experience here. I went from thinking that coticule edges were just too coarse for me, to deciding they were OK, and I think it was all improvements in my technique, but I have no idea what those improvements were. That kicked off a search for a really fine coticule, to see just how far I could push things.
Now that that's covered, I really want one of the coarse ones, for knives. But no one is out there saying "buy my coticule! It's really coarse!" I guess I need to make some inquiries.
Heh. I have one. But I won't be letting it go. I hate sharpening knives and this rock makes it easy.
The yellow side of my hybrid is about as course as I’ve seen a coti. Honestly I don’t much care for it but I’ll still keep it. I may find use for it at some point.
Mine is fine enough to shave off of(i like finer) but it is blazing fast. I've use it to remove chips from knives before and in a fairly reasonable amount of time
In terms of reading about Coticules, a good place to start is "Guide to Buying Belgian Coticules" by Ryan - just search the Internet.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
Very true of hobbyists/collectors, but maybe not so much for commercial vendors who have to move product to make the business work.
The real issue is that hobbyists and collectors have time to test their stones with a wide variety of steels, slurries (if applicable), oil (if applicable), and so on. No one that’s done this stone testing for months with razors made across centuries will sell the crown jewels cheap, if at all. And they shouldn’t.
Reputable dealers do a good job, but if you have to flip a hundred or more stones per year, you can’t do more than a quick test on any of them. This is both a curse and a blessing, since they know that the stone isn’t bad, but they don’t really know how good it is. And some of them can be very good. The problem is that you pay a lot for their ‘grading’ which is not all that good. Kudos to Takeshi Aoki, who tells you what the stone finish looks like on a jigane/hagane knife. If his stone finishes the hagane mirror, it’s likely a good razor hone.
I’ve bought out of Japan for years, relying on my eye, translated descriptive words, and experience, and as far as complete ‘duds’ go, I have three. One is a barber size that just doesn’t have very much grit in it (but pretty), one had oddly round bias cracks top to bottom, and the other is an oiled bench stone that fell apart in my hands along layer cracks - not even good for nagura. I think that the last one had been wet/frozen since it never would have survived sawing as evidenced by the normal saw marks on the side.
Not a bad trade off considering the jewels that I’ve bought.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
I’m just beginning my coti experience, but I have a couple of small stones that can rival a JNat edge, though maybe not the top 2%. One was a small rosy stone which I was advised not to buy because it was probably soft. It was pretty so I bought it for $80 I think, and guess what? It’s very hard, very fine, and moderately fast.
The other was a cased, and oil and sludge encrusted stone of about the same size as the one above. After lapping and de-sludging, I had another jewel that can produce keen and smooth edges.
I can’t explain why I have these two except that God looks after fools, and inexperienced natural hone buyers. Who are the same group I believe! But don’t look for the luck to last for long.
Yup, I think it is much easier to get a smoking edge producing Jnat off eBay than it is to get a Coticule that can deliver the same quality of an edge.
I also think it is easier for a new honer to learn a Jnat than a Coticule. I do not doubt that folks can get smoking edges from Coticules, I have not found them, for some reason, I keep looking and do find dirt cheap coticules in the wild.
I freely admit that I have not devoted the time to “learning” the bunch I have, I certainly spent many more hours testing paste, years.
But every coticule that I have honed on, that gave disappointing results, were easily improved with a Jnat or Ark.
I also think it is easier for a new honer to learn a Jnat than a Coticule. I do not doubt that folks can get smoking edges from Coticules, I have not found them, for some reason, I keep looking and do find dirt cheap coticules in the wild.
I freely admit that I have not devoted the time to “learning” the bunch I have, I certainly spent many more hours testing paste, years.
But every coticule that I have honed on, that gave disappointing results, were easily improved with a Jnat or Ark.
God looks after fools, and inexperienced natural hone buyers. Who are the same group I believe! But don’t look for the luck to last for long.
There is hope for me yet!
Eh, unless they're making room for potential better stones, but probably not the best, *best* stones, but maybe "best". There are still amazing stones floating around so and sometimes for not too much. Or I'm the luckiest guy around. I got Irish luck, friend.
I want one so bad. But im a poor. I need a finishing stone though. I wish someone would trade me for some vintage safety razors or something honestly lol
Once you have some more posts (50), you can open a thread in the BST forum and see if someone will hook you up. I'd be surprised if you emerge empty handed.
For reference, you can buy a Standard 125 x 30 Coticule directly from Ardeness-Coticule for 32.33 euro without VAT.
Are you in the US?
Yes i am
That would be pretty cool. Im still pretty new here but i really have been enjoying the wetshaving experience in general and love the community already
It happens faster than you think. This place is full of amazing, extremely knowledgeable people.
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