If I wanted a coticule...

[kayvee]

... where should I buy from (I'm in the USA - Northeast)? What are the pros/cons between slate backed and BBW backed?

Or should I just stay with lapping film? I have 4 razors that I want to maintain, couple are antique store buys and need to be made shave-ready. I doubt I'll buy more straights (but who knows)...

While I have lapping film setup, the sentimental call of the coticule is strong (my father/grandfather had a coticule and oil stone - which were "thrown" away long ago).

 

[Christian1212]

Can buy from the mine, or check out etsy. I think Beonardis or something similar has a good selection and price. Can be tricky getting a good finishing one, but at the very least it could cut out a lot of the work the film does for edge progression. I wouldn't worry about having one with BBW

 

[Empire straights]

Id keep an eye out on bst and a popular auction site we all love. You can always order 1 through 1stone, ardennes coticule, or belgischer broken. I've never had a coticule from 1stone but I like my la lune from there. I've had coticules from the other 2 and I've gotten good ones from both. Best advice I can give. Talk to all the coticule matters around here for things to look for.

 

[Empire straights]

Can buy from the mine, or check out etsy. I think Beonardis or something similar has a good selection and price. Can be tricky getting a good finishing one, but at the very least it could cut out a lot of the work the film does for edge progression. I wouldn't worry about having one with BBW

I've also gotten good coticules from Beonardis as well, and I've got at least half dozen stones from him. I just ordered another Pyrenees combo bench stone actually. I think communicating with them before hand and telling them what you're looking for helps a lot for getting what you actually want. Flea bay coticules are always a crap shoot but that's the only place you might luck into a Rockstar stone for fairly cheap.

 

[kayvee]

I'm late to the party for the recent coticules put up in BST. They all seem to vanish in a matter of hours

I'm worried I wouldn't know what to look for in fleabay...

I'll check out Beonardis...

 

[Empire straights]

I'm late to the party for the recent coticules put up in BST. They all seem to vanish in a matter of hours

I'm worried I wouldn't know what to look for in fleabay...

I'll check out Beonardis...

It may take a little while to arrive, but sometimes it'll come fairly quickly.

 

[DrStrange]

My understanding is that the slate back is not for honing,
even though some hones are slate.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Griffith Shaving Goods usually has a bunch. I suppose the honing qualities are a gamble as always...the one I got from them is good.

 

[Loner16]

Contact Rob or Maurice at Ardennes Coticule, and express that you want a coticule for straight razor honing.

Ardennes-Coticule | Belgian Sharpening Stones

 

[Tomo]

Ardennes is the way to go for Coticules. I’ve never achieved the sharpness I was looking for with Cotis. I tried five and never found a good one. In the US I’d be looking at a surgical black Ark from Dans Whetstones. That would be a nice step up from the films. You’d get a sharper edges with all the benefits of a natural finisher. Arks are very consistent so they’re not the gamble that Cotis are. Arks are a pure finisher but with films for longer range work you’d be all set.

 

[rbscebu]

I concur with @Tomo on this. Coming from lapping films and being new to natural whetstone honing, you should go for a surgical black Arkansas from Dan's Whetstones.

For a budget finishing stone, I would like to recommend an Adaee #12000 but they can be a bit of a crap-shoot. I was probably just lucky with the one I bought.

Coticules will give you a more "comfortable" edge to shave with but you may be a little disappointed with the edge's keenness off a coticule.

 

[Wid]

Put a wanted to buy in the BST forum. If you buy a coti from a member here you would most certainly get one good for razors.

 

[Loner16]

Put a wanted to buy in the BST forum. If you buy a coti from a member here you would most certainly get one good for razors.

I will say this about that... and this is in no way to be taken as an arguement. Perhaps my natural take on life in general.

I view buying and selling coticules, or most any other commodity with, perhaps a jaded eye. I've been around gundogs a good part of my life, and I know that breeders save what they consider to be, the best, most promising, biggest running, most point.. whatever quality you're breeding for, pups for themselves. The rest are sold. Now, nature, and nurture has a hand in this also, and often the pick of the litter comes on later in life in the hands of a buyer, much to the chagrin of the breeder.. No one can tell as a pup, including many times, the breeder himself.
My point in all of this is... No one is selling off their best stones. I wouldn't! Good ones may come up for sale, but, if the stone is that good, why is it for sale? Now, there may sometimes unsuspecting owners, or people just looking to turn a stone they found somewhere for a buck, and we all take our chances there... Buuuut..

All this, just food for thought...

P.S.
The coticule is probably the most misunderstood of whetstones. So much disinformation and misinformation surrounds them that it could fill a book... and probably has. I've got coticules here, and I will be the first to say that not all of them fit this description, that I would put up against any natural, and many synthetics, for keenness... not even to mention a face friendly smoothness. That said, most will satisfy a discriminating shaver in somewhat experienced hands, and it may take a bit of detective work for her to unlock her charms.. but, it is often there.

 

[Wid]

I will say this about that...

I view buying and selling coticules, or most any other commodity with, perhaps a jaded eye. I've been around gundogs a good part of my life, and I know that breeders save what they consider to be, the best, most promising pups for themselves. The rest are sold. Now, nature, and nurture has a hand in this also, and often the pick of the litter comes on later in life in the hands of a buyer, much to the chagrin of the breeder.. No one can tell as a pup, including many times, the breeder himself.
My point in all of this is... No one is selling off their best stones. I wouldn't! Good ones may come up for sale, but, if the stone is that good, why is it for sale? Now, there may sometimes unsuspecting owners, or people just looking to turn a stone they found somewhere for a buck, and we all take our chances there... Buuuut..

All this, just food for thought...

P.S.
The coticule is probably the most misunderstood of whetstones. So much disinformation and misinformation surrounds them that it could fill a book... asnd probably has. I've got coticules here, and I will be the first to say that not all of them fit this description, that I would put up against any natural, and many synthetics, for keenness... not even to mention a face friendly smoothness.

I'd be willing to hone a razor on a coti for the OP if he wanted. If he liked the edge then buy the stone, if not then one would hope my "shave ready edge" was at least acceptable. I haven't ran across to many coticules that couldn't give a good edge. As to the OP's ability to get that same edge is another subject.

 

[Loner16]

I'd be willing to hone a razor on a coti for the OP if he wanted. If he liked the edge then buy the stone, if not then one would hope my "shave ready edge" was at least acceptable. I haven't ran across to many coticules that couldn't give a good edge. As to the OP's ability to get that same edge is another subject.

That's good of you... And I agree with you completely on your other points!

 

[Wid]

That's good of you... And I agree with you completely on your other points!

I'm sure you've forgot more about the coticule than I've ever known, a coti guru I am not. I just know for the most part, the few dozen I've tried have been good for razors.

Buying from the mine is very good advice

 

[Loner16]

I'm sure you've forgot more about the coticule than I've ever known, a coti guru I am not. I just know for the most part, the few dozen I've tried have been good for razors.

Buying from the mine is very good advice

I appreciate the compliment, but I am not the world's greatest coticuleer, and I sincerely hope I don't come off as such. I'm also not an apprentice. I would call myself a journeyman, as I was in my trade as a Tool & Die Maker. I knew what I was doing, but I could still pick up tips and tricks from others.
I guess I'm competent on the coticule.. certainly no more, but I consider myself a student, still with much to learn. I think we're all equals here!

 

[Herrenberg]

Since no one has yet said it on this thread, I will: if you're going to finish a razor on a coticule, do so under running water in the final strokes. No other type of stone I've used has such a different impact with and without slurry, and you definitely want the "without" for getting a final shaving edge.

 

[Frank Shaves]

You should definitely consider buying a Coticule. You can either hunt for vintage Coticules until you find stones that you like or (as Bill (@Loner16) said contact Rob about a Coticule for honing razors.

You will save money by buying a new stone directly from Ardennes-Coticule (AC). I have now bought four stones directly from AC and all four stones produce terrific edges.

For your first Coticule, I would focus on the yellow Coticule layer, not the BBW or slate. If you get into Coticules, you will soon have plenty of BBW .

 

[Empire straights]

I will say this about that... and this is in no way to be taken as an arguement. Perhaps my natural take on life in general.

I view buying and selling coticules, or most any other commodity with, perhaps a jaded eye. I've been around gundogs a good part of my life, and I know that breeders save what they consider to be, the best, most promising, biggest running, most point.. whatever quality you're breeding for, pups for themselves. The rest are sold. Now, nature, and nurture has a hand in this also, and often the pick of the litter comes on later in life in the hands of a buyer, much to the chagrin of the breeder.. No one can tell as a pup, including many times, the breeder himself.
My point in all of this is... No one is selling off their best stones. I wouldn't! Good ones may come up for sale, but, if the stone is that good, why is it for sale? Now, there may sometimes unsuspecting owners, or people just looking to turn a stone they found somewhere for a buck, and we all take our chances there... Buuuut..

All this, just food for thought...

P.S.
The coticule is probably the most misunderstood of whetstones. So much disinformation and misinformation surrounds them that it could fill a book... and probably has. I've got coticules here, and I will be the first to say that not all of them fit this description, that I would put up against any natural, and many synthetics, for keenness... not even to mention a face friendly smoothness. That said, most will satisfy a discriminating shaver in somewhat experienced hands, and it may take a bit of detective work for her to unlock her charms.. but, it is often there.

I agree on y your assessment on coticules and the need to learn the subtleties of your stone. I've had coticules I though were garbage, at them on a shelf for a while and the next time o try them in shocked at how good they are. All the songs I got rid of recently I felt the same way about them when I tried them before I sold them. I think with coticules if you've got one with fine garnets in it, it *can* produce a great shaving edge. Three only ones I've come across that CAN'T produce a shaving edge meet one of 2 conditions: a) the garnets are to coarse, they'll leave a toothy edge on a knife. These are great knife stones and all I've had that are this way are still in my house on knife duty. B) they are too soft and self slurry and the slurry dulls your edge. It's taken me time to figure out all the rest that don't fall in this category but they'll all produce a good shave with some finesse.