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I received my Sheraton....Oh Oh!!!

Dale that is fine. I've been buying and selling for a while but I still learn a thing or two now and again. If it makes you feel any better the gold plating on the Sheraton was rather thin. I've heard it referred to as a flash plating although to be honest I don't think it was quite that thin!

Anyway I am going to clean this up when you return it as I am curious as to how it will turn out. I've actually had some other offers on this razor already believe it or not! I was wondering where they were coming from until I found this thread. However since it's '37, if it cleans up nicely I may just keep it.

When you return it please follow the instructions I sent you in the Ebay message.
 

BigFoot

I wanna be sedated!
Staff member
Dale that is fine. I've been buying and selling for a while but I still learn a thing or two now and again. If it makes you feel any better the gold plating on the Sheraton was rather thin. I've heard it referred to as a flash plating although to be honest I don't think it was quite that thin!

Anyway I am going to clean this up when you return it as I am curious as to how it will turn out. I've actually had some other offers on this razor already believe it or not! I was wondering where they were coming from until I found this thread. However since it's '37, if it cleans up nicely I may just keep it.

When you return it please follow the instructions I sent you in the Ebay message.


And that my friends is how to keep a positive seller rating and behave like gentelman. I had one sale go south due to shipping damage. The buyer contacted me. I replaced the razor he was happy I kept a positive rating.
 
And that my friends is how to keep a positive seller rating and behave like gentelman.

+1, Scott!! Nice to see such gentlemanly conduct!!

Don't forget, the '37 Sheraton was made as our country was still limping its way out of the Great Depression - the gold wash on those razors was not much better than it was on a NEW - and we know how often we find a NEW without substantial plating loss!!

Also, don't lose sight of the fact that the Sheraton is one outstanding shaver!! I picked one up recently (with plating loss, but clean) and it is by far the best DE razor of the bunch. While it is more aggressive than a Red Tip (I can feel the blade edge) it's still very well-behaved. Close, smooth, and comfortable!
 
BBrad you raise an important point about the times during which the Sheraton was produced. Comparing their plating to that of the gold Aristocrats of the forties and fifties isn't an apples to apples comparison. One previous poster also mentioned something about the handles on some early Gillettes being made out of copper. That may be but the handle on the Sheraton isn't.

It looks as though this will work out for the best regardless as I believe I already have the razor placed in a new home once I get it back--assuming I don't choose to keep it since the only other Sheraton I have now is a cased one that I won't shave with.
 
One previous poster also mentioned something about the handles on some early Gillettes being made out of copper. That may be but the handle on the Sheraton isn't.

It's possible that it varies but the handle on one of my Sheratons is copper. I don't think that gold plating adheres as well to copper as it does to brass because every razor I have seen with copper parts (usually handles and some NEW caps) always suffers more plate loss on the parts that are copper.
 
It's possible that it varies but the handle on one of my Sheratons is copper.

I don't know if it's copper or just high-copper brass (I would think the latter), but the handle on the Sheraton I just cleaned up last night has pretty bad plate loss, and the handle is definitely copper toned, too.
 
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Interesting! My other Sheraton's handle definitely isn't copper. I'm certainly going to have a closer look when I get this one back.
 
I just picked up a Sheraton off the Bay. It was described as clean but with a two tone look, probably from finish loss. The razor looks great with a brass shiny and the thin gold retained on the ends of the handle and top. It shaves wonderfully!! I will probably leave it as is-it looks fine, but have considered replating this one. I guess it is all about expectations!
 
I don't know if it's copper or just high-copper brass (I would think the latter), but the handle on the Sheraton I just cleaned up last night has pretty bad plate loss, and the handle is definitely copper toned, too.

Copper ions (from either copper or brass) will leach into gold plating over a period of time. With the very thin wash used at that time, it would be possible for the gold wash to become rose colored or even a darker copper-tone without having experienced complete plate loss.

Still a darned good razor! :thumbup1:
 
Copper ions (from either copper or brass) will leach into gold plating over a period of time. With the very thin wash used at that time, it would be possible for the gold wash to become rose colored or even a darker copper-tone without having experienced complete plate loss.

Still a darned good razor! :thumbup1:

Exactly! Thank you for that post! I'm glad someone besides me posted this! I started to but I didn't think it would carry as much weight since I sold the razor.

On another note I think the reason my other Sheraton does not have a copper handle is because it was a later vintage.
 
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Copper ions (from either copper or brass) will leach into gold plating over a period of time. With the very thin wash used at that time, it would be possible for the gold wash to become rose colored or even a darker copper-tone without having experienced complete plate loss.

Interesting. Maybe that's why it makes me so happy -- I'm shaving the world through rose-tinted razors. :laugh:

I'll post a pic or two when I get home to see what you think. What I'm seeing goes well beyond just looking like rose gold in places, particularly on the smooth band where the patent message is stamped.

Still a darned good razor! :thumbup1:

No doubt. I just shaved with it this morning. :thumbup1:
 
Since we are talking Sheratons here do any of you that have one also have a Senator? I was always struck by the fact--for me at least--how much more aggressive the Sheraton is than the Senator. I don't know why this is since the Senator appears to be nothing more than the silverplated version of the Sheraton and the blade gap doesn't appear to be dramatically different. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
 
Since we are talking Sheratons here do any of you that have one also have a Senator? I was always struck by the fact--for me at least--how much more aggressive the Sheraton is than the Senator. I don't know why this is since the Senator appears to be nothing more than the silverplated version of the Sheraton and the blade gap doesn't appear to be dramatically different. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

That's funny. I've only got one Sheraton shave this morning to go from, but I was thinking the exact opposite. My shave this morning with my new Sheraton and a brand new Astra SP was similar to but milder than I get with my Senator. Not a scientific data sample, by any means, so I may change my mind after a few more shaves and some different blades.

Beside the obvious plating difference, take a look at how the lifting arms connect to the doors. On the Senator the tips of the arms are bent back into a socket on the door, as was carried on in the later Super Speed designs, where the Sheraton uses the round rivet-like connection that the early TTO Aristocrats had. I'm at work right now, otherwise I'd post some pictures of my own. But I knocked up a quick side-by-side using a couple of images from other B&B posts.

It's certainly possible that there are other subtle design differences between them that would cause them to shave slightly differently.
 
I think we have to be careful with terminology here. If I understand the process correctly, after the Sheratons were plated they were coated with a varnish or other clear finish which darkened the color. On the Sheraton I had, some of the varnish had come off, but I think most of the gold plating was still there. On my Sheraton, the lighter gold color of the head matched my watch, which is also gold. And the handle seemed to be a different color. So I think it is quite possible that the head would show two colors and no plating loss while the handle might be a third color. Obviously, that is not "collector grade," but the point is it may not have any or much plate loss. I don't think you can tell from the pics that were in the listing. All that said, I would not guess as to what a fair resolution is.
 
I am not pleased with the razor. If he said no finish loss, that is what I expected. I have contacted him. He does offer a 30 day return on all of his items. I will be out the shipping..........win some lose some.

You don't have to be out the shipping, as he failed to Describe it properly, its on him weather he knew or didn't know about the finish, So if i were you i would dispute it, or just simply ask him for the return shipping since your paying to have it shipped back to him, as a matter of fact if you pay for return shipping, he does not loss anything at all, all you did was wasted your time bidding on it, then waiting for it in the mail, having to take it back to the post office, This kind of stuff pisses me off when sellers do this, even if he had no knowledge that doesn't make you responsible for shipping loss, let him know how you feel, i'm sure for 5 bucks shipping he doesn't want negative feedback. I'm just one that don't like wasting my time or have my time wasted, i just sent a package back today, because handle on it had a SPLIT Not even a crack, and seller didn't mention it. One this is a crack, and another is SPLIT, its like saying you have a Fractured leg, but you really have a Broken leg LOL.. Got it at 1pm Shipped it back at 2pm. and i'm getting my shipping money back :thumbup:
 

nemo

Lunatic Fringe
Staff member
ERVARGASNY, relax, please read the entire post, they have worked it out like gentlemen.

My Senator is slightly more aggressive than my Sheraton but all razors seem to have their own personalities, even within the same line.
 
This has already been discussed, but I think that it should have been visible from the last photo. As mentioned, the finish on these razors is very finicky. While maybe the seller should have used the word "plate" instead of "finish" I don't think he really did anything wrong. Its good to know he is accepting the return, but I don't think its worth leaving negative feedback over. Part of buying is using your own judgement and carefully looking at the photos, asking questions when necessary.

This doesn't necessarily apply to this listing, but I think some people are a little unrealistic in their expectations. I don't even know how many adjustables I've bought that were jammed. Thats a risk you take when the seller doesn't claim to know if it works or not. Buyer beware. You win some and you lose some, thats ebay. Again, not directed at anyone, but there is IMO way too much whining about ebay on the forum. The BST exists for a reason
 

nemo

Lunatic Fringe
Staff member
This has already been discussed, but I think that it should have been visible from the last photo. As mentioned, the finish on these razors is very finicky. While maybe the seller should have used the word "plate" instead of "finish" I don't think he really did anything wrong. Its good to know he is accepting the return, but I don't think its worth leaving negative feedback over. Part of buying is using your own judgement and carefully looking at the photos, asking questions when necessary.

This doesn't necessarily apply to this listing, but I think some people are a little unrealistic in their expectations. I don't even know how many adjustables I've bought that were jammed. Thats a risk you take when the seller doesn't claim to know if it works or not. Buyer beware. You win some and you lose some, thats ebay. Again, not directed at anyone, but there is IMO way too much whining about ebay on the forum. The BST exists for a reason

+1
I sell collectibles on eBay and often bend way over backwards for buyers with way-too-high expectations. We're dealing with 70 year old stuff and there's gonna be defects here and there. I take the best photos I can and try to describe as best as possible and still . . .

Buyer's remorse?
 
I have both a Sheraton and Senator. The Sheraton when I got it was totally a brass color with some green corrosion. I knew it would have complete plate loss when cleaned up. After cleaning the barrel of the handle is copper the head and handle end are brass.

The Senator is not completely cleaned up yet but it has decent plating on the head. The barrel of the handle has plate loss showing copper underneath. The end of the handle is brass with total plate loss. The weird thing is the small section between the barrel and the TTO end is the same as the head without plate loss. It's going to be a multicolor oddity it would appear.

Long story short both of them definitely have copper barrels.
 
. . . If I understand the process correctly, after the Sheratons were plated they were coated with a varnish or other clear finish which darkened the color. On the Sheraton I had, some of the varnish had come off, but I think most of the gold plating was still there. . . . I think it is quite possible that the head would show two colors and no plating loss while the handle might be a third color. . . .

Very true! The protective lacquer adds another layer (sorry :blush:) to the puzzle. Even under the lacquer, copper ions can migrate. In addition, the lacquer loses its clarity over time and takes on an orange cast of its own.

On the same razor we can see many combinations of color due to finish deterioration. Polished brass (after all the gold wash is gone) may be the best looking of them all . . .

After WWII, when the country was back into financial prosperity, the problem was solved by nickel-plating the razors first, then plating with a top layer of gold, rather than the thin wash used during the depression era.
 
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