I need help from all you woodworkers out there.

[Jack-in-the-Green]

I'm trying to restore this old Strongset brush for my dad for Christmas. It was originally painted pearlescent green and black, but the old paint was badly chipped, and not really my dad's style anyway, so I thought I would take it down to the wood and stain it. There were 3 layers of paint - the pearl coat, an undercoat of blue, and a white (presumably) primer coat. I sanded it all off with an 80 grit sanding drum on my Dremel. Then I went over it for quite some time with 3 different abrasive wheels - 180 grit, 280 grit and 320 grit. Then I hit it by hand briefly with some 800 grit sandpaper. After that I applied some pre-stain. I'll admit I got impatient at this point and may not have let it soak quite as long as the directions suggested. I then applied some natural stain, didn't like the results, and followed with a dark walnut. You can see from the picture below that it ended up strangely stripey, with whitish woodgrain.

So what did I do wrong? Did I not sand long enough to get all the primer out of the grain? Is the wood too old, dry, and/or dry rotted? (I tried to put a hook on the inside of the knot hole to hang the brush from while I finished it, but the wood just disolved around the screw, and the hook popped out.) Did I need to spend more time with the wood conditioner? Help!

 

[cooncatbob]

Do you have access to a lathe or drill press, you need to spin sand it.
You need to remove all the marks from the previous grit before you move to a finer grit.
Since it was painted it probably a pretty closed grain piece of wood.
What brand of stain are you using, when you said stain conditioner it made me think Minwax, which except for a few colors I find to be crappy stain, thin and little pigment.

 

[john.crissman]

What you are seeing are the ends of the grain as they have been shaped. It is going to be hard to get a uniform color out of this piece with the curves. End grain is generally much darker in color and drinks much stain, whereas side grain is harder to stain.

I think the white comes from not waiting as long as you should have and rushing the stain.

Honestly, I would let it dry out. Then sand it off and re-do. If you have access to a lathe (or a drill press) then chuck this bad boy up and it will go much faster for the sanding.

I think it is a worthy project and I would enjoy seeing your further process.

 

[Sueto]

I am not a master woodworker, but I have seen this on other projects I have done around the house. One project in particular was when I had a piece that was done with pine or poplar that has some cuts across the grain. The cross grain cuts ended up darker due to the ends acting like straws and sucking up stain. It kinda looks like that here. Do you know what kind of wood that is?

 

[Mink]

If any part is rotting it will be pulpy, and have no strength. You will literally be able to scrape it out with a small screwdriver. When you reach a point where the wood resists the screwdriver (or whatever small scraper you use), then you're good. You can fill in the wood you removed in the hole with wood filler. Get the good stuff in a tube because it will flow and seat better. It will need to cure for a couple of days.
The white ring on the outside of the lower bulb tells me that you needed to remover more of the wood's surface. That doesn't appear to be natural wood color, so it needs more work. I think a change I would make in your approach is that it would be better to have the wood handle turning rather than using your Dremel on the outside. You could even use an insert into the hole that would allow you to use a drill press. Then use sandpaper on the outside. I would go back to at least 150grit.
And lastly, when you sand wood you're trying to restore, it can look fuzzy and cloudy after sanding. Wipe on a little denatured alcohol to get a better picture of what the wood's surface will look like when it's finished. The alcohol evaporates in a minute or two. This will allow you to evaluate if you've cleaned it up enough before applying finish.
Keep at it. On the outside that handle looks like it's in very good condition. Go slow because the wood has seen constant exposure to water - which means it's fragile. The inside can be repaired and no one will see it. You may also want to use some boiled linseed oil on it because it will penetrate the wood better than just a stain and that will give it better water protection. Then add your finish. You can also use water based finishes (stain and urethane) that may even do a better job, but I don't have enough experience with them to give you any tips.
Good Luck!

 

[Jim]

Jack you may want to consider a nice paint job. While its hard to say exactly, the white specks may be the origianal paint that was drawn into the wood, if so it may be very difficult to remove.

Sealing the handle with a penetrating epoxy and marine paint may be at the end of the road a more durable and esthetically pleasing result.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[whitebar]

I like the shape of that handle and think it will make for a really nice brush. Don't give up on it as I'm sure your dad will appreciate all the work you put into making something special for him.

 

[bman40]

Jack you may want to consider a nice paint job. While its hard to say exactly, the white specks may be the origianal paint that was drawn into the wood, if so it may be very difficult to remove.

Sealing the handle with a penetrating epoxy and marine paint may be at the end of the road a more durable and esthetically pleasing result.

Good luck and keep us posted.

It looks like the wood is quite coarse grained, and you may never get rid of the look. A nice dark brown marine paint or maybe something in an ivory colour would be pretty nice.

Barry

 

[jwhite]

What you are going to need to do is let it dry and sand again until it is fairly uniform in color and texture. What you have is a pretty soft type of wood and you will need a sanding sealer before staining. After applying the sanding sealer, following the manufacturers instructions, use a jell stain to apply color and then a marine grade finish. The sanding sealer will help even out stain absorption and the jell stain won't soak in too fast. You don't need to go crazy with a lot of varying grits of sand paper, go medium to get it evened out, use fine to remove sanding marks, use very fine to prep for sanding sealer, 0000 steel wool between finish coats.

you don't have to have any special tools, (although it's nice when you do) just take your medium grit paper and gradually work on it by hand while you're watching a game or the news or something you might be surprised how well that works, when it looks smooth and even move on to the fine grit. As far as the rot on the interior is concerned just drill down to good wood and fill with a cork shim and 2 part epoxy when its time set your knot. If you really want to you can use dowel of the same diameter as your hole and a good exterior wood glue- drill out all the rot, paint hole and dowel with glue, gently pound in dowel, let set and flush cut the dowel. you will then have a solid wood repair and you would drill out a new hole for the knot. But personally I would probably go with the cork and epoxy.

 

[Jack-in-the-Green]

A lot of great advice here, guys. Thanks!

Do you have access to a lathe or drill press, you need to spin sand it.
You need to remove all the marks from the previous grit before you move to a finer grit.
Since it was painted it probably a pretty closed grain piece of wood.
What brand of stain are you using, when you said stain conditioner it made me think Minwax, which except for a few colors I find to be crappy stain, thin and little pigment.

Unfortunately, no. I don't have a drill press or lathe (though I'd love to have both) and since I live in a 1 bedroom apartment and my "workshop" is the kitchen table, I don't really have anyplace to put them, either. I could possibly attach the handle to my Dremel and clamp it to the table. But aren't you supposed to sand with the grain? Or does that not matter for something like this?

As for the stain - the pre-stain is Minwax, but for the stain itself I picked up some of those little sample packets of Varithane. Why spend $6 on a big can of stain, when all I need is a couple 25 cent samples-worth?

What you have is a pretty soft type of wood and you will need a sanding sealer before staining.

Is this the same thing as pre-stain, or something different?

And another question for you all: I love the look of a tung oil finish, but would I be right in assuming that it wouldn't provide enough protection to the wood, given it's going to be soaking in water on a regular basis? How about a wipe-on poly?

 

[jwhite]

A lot of great advice here, guys. Thanks!



Unfortunately, no. I don't have a drill press or lathe (though I'd love to have both) and since I live in a 1 bedroom apartment and my "workshop" is the kitchen table, I don't really have anyplace to put them, either. I could possibly attach the handle to my Dremel and clamp it to the table. But aren't you supposed to sand with the grain? Or does that not matter for something like this?

Don't worry about it; just get some regular sand paper and do it by hand as I described above when you're watching TV or something. If you were refinishing something with a long flat surface and you had a random orbital sander, the action of the sander would be going every which way but you would want to move the tool with the grain. Here just turn the handle in the sandpaper. You can use a thin strip with a piece of string for the grooves.

As for the stain - the pre-stain is Minwax, but for the stain itself I picked up some of those little sample packets of Varithane. Why spend $6 on a big can of stain, when all I need is a couple 25 cent samples-worth?



Is this the same thing as pre-stain, or something different?

I never use Minwax products so I'm unfamiliar with their prestain. A sanding sealer is designed to be used before staining soft or coarse grain woods so as to prevent uneven absorption of the stain. By the by my local Lowe's has packets of an acceptable jell stain.

And another question for you all: I love the look of a tung oil finish, but would I be right in assuming that it wouldn't provide enough protection to the wood, given it's going to be soaking in water on a regular basis? How about a wipe-on poly?

Tung oil is a personal favorite of mine as well but I was concerned that it might turn cloudy in hot water. I'd play it safe and only use something that is labeled marine grade.

 

[Jack-in-the-Green]

Well, I followed the advice you fellows gave me, and it seems to be working out much better. Thank you! Here' is what it looks like post-stain, pre-finish. I ultimately ended up using a Cabernet 1st coat, which I decided wasn't dark enough, so I added a Black Cherry 2nd coat. I think it looks quite spiffing. I'm still getting some striping across the bottom part of the handle, which I'm not entirely happy with. I'm debating at this point whether I should paint the bottom part black, and leave the top stained wood. I added a very rough, poorly executed photoshop mock-up for you to get an idea of what it would look like. Opinions?

 

[jwhite]

That's coming right along

One thing you can do is to use a small water color paintbrush if you have one, a q-tip will work just fine, and apply stain to the lighter arias only. Let set a minute and then wipe. Reapply for longer, to the lighter arias only, if necessary and it will even out. There will still be some variation with the spot staining but nowhere near as stark. If you want to paint the bottom have you considered a lighter color like Ivory. It would provide a more interesting contrast with the dark wood IMHO. Or if you wanted to keep it dark you could go with a burgundy enamel that would really bring out the red in the stain and could be really attractive.

Just another thought- you know the lighter arias are where you applied the most consistent pressure while sanding. I'm sure your sick to death of sanding by now, but if you continued the whole thing would look like that eventually.

 

[Mink]

You might want to even up the top. If you don't have a sanding block, wrap some sandpaper around a flat piece of scrap and use it to flatten the top. It might not be needed, but you won't be able to do anything with it once the knot is installed. It's not a critical step, but if it was me, I would finish the top a little better than it is right now.

 

[jwhite]

You might want to even up the top. If you don't have a sanding block, wrap some sandpaper around a flat piece of scrap and use it to flatten the top. It might not be needed, but you won't be able to do anything with it once the knot is installed. It's not a critical step, but if it was me, I would finish the top a little better than it is right now.

I thought about that too but when I was going to put it in my post I remembered these old turned wooden bowls of my fathers and how they exhibited similar natural wear. I used to love those things, they looked positively ancient to me and I wouldn't sand those down for anything. I guess it really comes down to what look your going for.

 

[Jack-in-the-Green]

Well, here's the finished product. I hope he likes it.

 

[Jim]

Nice Job! I am sure he will enjoy it.

 

[Loner16]

Quite a transformation!

Looking at the original pics, I didn't have much hope for that piece of wood.. but then again, I'm not a woodworker!
What a surprise to see the finished picture! It turned out beautifully, and I'm sure your Dad will love it..

Nice job!

 

[boss302]

You should be very pleased with the outcome. I think the two-tone look gives the handle a little character that it might not otherwise have if it were a solid color. If you were to start over and wished to have a consistent color, I would suggest bleaching the wood with a woodoworking bleaching product.

Great job! Your Dad should be happy with your handywork.

Pat

 

[jwhite]

Great looking brush!! I'm glad you chose to stick with the stain as it shows the character and history of the brush, very well done.