I Believe I've Solved my Consistency Problem

[duke762]

Well. I have one vintage Norton black translucent 6" stone that always gives me the velvet squeegee edge I love. I don't use it much because I almost consider it cheating some how. My thinking is I should be able to duplicate this edge on any of the finishing grade Arks I have. I've relentlessly experimented and failed miserably using my other vintage Ark finishers. Nice edges but not the "one". I kept asking myself why? I can take an edge off of the other finishers and put it on the cheater stone, and it's wonderful.

So what's going on I asked myself. Why does that one 6" stone give me what I want and none of the other beautiful vintage Arks I have don't.

I believe it all boils down to ergonomics. My other finishers are all 8" stones and I'm trying to finish hand held. Fatigue sets in maybe? I have a recently acquired a 5 x 2 x 1 vintage Norton trans lapped and dressed, I finished up a razor on it. There we go, bingo, I can do it on 2 stones now. I also have 2 vintage Norton trans 6" shelf queens that are going back to work to see if they can produce "the" edge as well. I have confidence they will. Putting them, to work will be like getting 2 new stones. It's about time they earn their keep around here.

 

[Christian1212]

Might also help to have smaller finishing strokes

 

[lightfoot]

You’re not done testing. One exercise worth considering is taking one of your full size Arkansas stones (finishing) and restrict yourself to 5” of surface area and do more comparisons. It could/should take a while to make additional evaluations but even if this exercise is in fact revealing what you’re talking about here is a length-of-stroke issue rather than stone dimension.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

I doubt the length of the stone has much to do with it. They are natural stones and no two may be exactly alike in composition.

Arks are stone finish dependent. How the stone was finished and how it has been burnished through use will pay a large part in the finish it produces on a razor.

Jerry, Gasman is doing an interesting experiment with his Ark finisher, refinishing his stone on 600-2k wet & dry, burnishing, not burnishing each stone face and shaving off each stone face.

Once an Ark is flat it is easy to alter the face with Wet & Dry and burnishing. I have found, doing this will reveal the stone face that is best for that stone and your technique. Look at softer Arks with colored swirl pattern and note how different they look from one side to the other, that is just the color, imagine the composition from one stone to another.

Hand holding introduces more variables, so putting the stone on a base will remove a lot of pressure variables, at least half. Most Arks require more pressure that other natural finishers.

If you are looking for consistency, eliminate as many variables as possible. Bottom line is, some stones finish better than others, with your technique, especially Natural stones.

 

[duke762]

I really think the problem is me holding the heavier 8" stones and maybe not having good enough control over them. My super edge came easy on a smaller stone. After my best efforts on an 8" stone, the smaller stones improve it. I do better hand held, maybe just use 8" stones on the bench and not hand held. I have to amp up my bench top game.

 

[Timeclo]

I have two coticules, a 6" one and a 3" bout. I've tried honing on the 6" stone several times and I can't get a decent edge off of it but with the 3" bout, it works like a charm. I've done both hand-held and bench and result is the same.

I'm thinking it's the stone and how I use it. I could try to figure out the 6" one but it gets pretty frustrating when the other one just works much easier.

 

[Gamma]

Learn the feedback. Learn the feedback that brings the edge you are looking for.
Learn to adjust pressure and stroke on different stones to achieve that feedback.

Stones have to be of excellent quality - that's first. Brands and labels don't mean much; the stone's gotta be on point.
After that, they need to be consistently flat, and consistently dressed. I keep Ark finishers at 600x with 3m w/d. Have not seen higher polish achieve anything other than wasting w/d, my time, and sweat. The more polish, the less they work and the more they smear. Literally burnishing. I found the best finishing capabilities right at that cusp where it's super smooth, but there is still nap and zero 'high polish'. I remember having to do approx. 700 laps with a TI on a very reflective Black Ark to get the 'feel' on the stone right but the feel of the edge on the face wasn't right. Took a long while to achieve equilibrium - polish vs shave test. From time to time I'll read posts where guys say their Ark edges are harsh.. been there, fixed that.

I've had a lot of trans arks here, too many to count. As long as each stone was flat, and clean, and consistent, surfaced how I like them, the edges came up how I wanted them. Right now I have a 10x3 Black and a 6x2 Black, 2 totally different stones, visually & size, it's not even close. If I honed the same blade on those two no one could tell which edge was from what stone.

Thing is, it takes time and a major focus on consistency. Can't really figure stuff like this out one one or a few edges. Having a routine with one stone isn't what I am talking about and that is where confusion lies. We have a stone and it's a gem and we can do no wrong on it. But we can't get the next stone to respond the same. It's because we haven't learned how to listen to the stone. I have a black slate on my bench right now, and after polishing the top to 2k, it seems like we are speaking two different languages. We're going back to sub 1k next - prob 400-600x. I prob have 30 edges on this stone by now..prob go another 50. Cest la vie...This stuff can't be figured out in a day or a week... takes time.

Also required, the ability to lighten touch to what I sometimes call butterfly wing pressure.
Can't be bouncing around with different stones all the time, constantly lapping it differently, using different honing mediums, altering stroke and pressure, and changing the ground work so very much.

I'm not seeing enough of a difference between a 6x2 and an 8x2 to warrant a control-based issue. If it was between a 6x2 and a 10x3, maybe...but hone however you're comfortable, if for no other reason than to cast out doubt.

 

[duke762]

Gamma, I'm ticking all the boxes you've mentioned. I try to remain consistent a I can. All lapped and dressed to 600 grit. butterfly kisses for pressure, killer 12k edge brought to the Ark, lovely flat trans vintage Norton, I give this stone a lot of work so I'm familiar with it. I just can't duplicate "the" edge I get off of 6" stones. I've tried an 8" Norton black also, same thing. 8"' stones just aren't working as well as they should for me while hand held. Aging, carpel tunnel, fatigue while holding the stone? I think the next step should be me, upping my game on the bench and see what happens. Just got "the" edge again with a 6" trans that I'd never used before. Hand held. If I can master the 8" stones and get 'the" edge off of them, I'll be a happy camper and I'll have more finishers to play with. Yes, most likely a user problem.