how do you guys finish with your j nats after full dilucot on your coticule??
gary
gary
hw to finish with j nat after coticule
- Thread starter gary haywood
- Start date
Build a slurry with a Tomo and hone until that starts to break down and dilute that to plain water. Clean off everything and hone on plain water for 30-40 laps. I dont lap count, I go by the feel, when done right with plain water there is significant suction felt between the blade and the stone
Tomonagura slurry until a uniform hazy polish is achieved, then 5 laps on .1 CBN, then a good stropping.
I find my Jnat doesn't like my technique on water. I added the 5 laps on CBN after reading Rion's translated Iwaski honing article. Iwasaki suggests a few laps on crox, but I dont like crox personally. He also suggests edge leading laps can create a fin edge, so after the crox he does light heel toe "rubs" of a few millimeters of movement to finish.
I find my Jnat doesn't like my technique on water. I added the 5 laps on CBN after reading Rion's translated Iwaski honing article. Iwasaki suggests a few laps on crox, but I dont like crox personally. He also suggests edge leading laps can create a fin edge, so after the crox he does light heel toe "rubs" of a few millimeters of movement to finish.
- Thread starter
- #4
so basicly dilucot wth j nat how you would with coticule .. do you use back and forth strokes and finish with x strokes? does the j nat make a differance? I did have one and hardly used it. i sold it and wished i'd kept on to it.. With the limited use i had i have to say i did have two or three extremly nice and very very smooth keen edge s... when i say smooth i was shocked how smooth ... I just could'nt repeat those kind of edges so i went back to my coticules... sold the j nat for some reason. now i am considering trying another one ..
I usually do 15-20 x strokes, lightest pressure possible, water only on my Ozuku Mizo Asagi. What I basically want to do is add keenness while trying to retain as much of the coticule edge as possible.
For reasons I don't completely understand, Koma and even Tomo nagura set the edges I get on my particular Coticules back.
For reasons I don't completely understand, Koma and even Tomo nagura set the edges I get on my particular Coticules back.
- Thread starter
- #6
yes i have read some perform a thew laps on crox .
I'd add to watch the thickness of your slurry as well. I'm finally seeing more consistent results with using a thin slurry. Don't do it as you would with your coticue.
That's a really good point David. Iwasaki pointed that out too, and that a heavy slurry impeded the efficacy of the slurry.
- Thread starter
- #9
well max just got back to me and he recomended me a nice wakassa L4/5 not as hard as the ozuki but an easy to use j nat that leaves a nice smooth edge and its a reasonable price . i grabbed the finishing slurry stone also ... so any advice will be apreciated ...
gary
gary
I also do a diluticot method with the jnat after a coticule. I do circular strokes to help break down the slurry till the stone is almost dry. After that I wash the stone and do 100 x strokes on water alone.
Well you got more than a few different techniques, hehe, it should keep you busy for a while!
Circles when first, then x-strokes.
I was convinced JNAT meant to dull an edge until I got the technique down
I think a thinner slurry is the answer
Yep
- Thread starter
- #13
sure will but i think i'd go for the dilute method i'm sure you carn't go wrong with that .. i do think slurry use is the key .. at least that what i found with the one i sold . I'm sure if you can hit the max on a coticule the j nat should work very well .
gary
gary
Definitely, max out whatever method you are using before going to the JNAT, build a lightish slurry and work it until is breaks down (it changes color on my stone to a darker shade) then dilute and finish on plain water
- Thread starter
- #15
i'll do just that . how would you compare the shave from coticule maxed out coticule to j nat finish?
I find them both be be very smooth, the JNAT IMO gives more keenness.
I make SURE the coticule edge is shave ready before going to the jnat.
- Thread starter
- #18
i'd make sure i'm getting a ht 3/4 of my la vainete which never lets me down then i'd moe to j nat... the last time i had a good results with j nat i must admit i was blown away .. the smoothnes was right up there and defanatley keeness.. bad results were a little ruff yet shaved.. i think that was due to dense slurry ....
Super hard Jnats finish best on slurry, the softer ones the opposite. Rest is experiment what works best for you.
I never count as the number of strokes depends on steel hardness and type, and the level the edge is finished before the Jnat.
I never count as the number of strokes depends on steel hardness and type, and the level the edge is finished before the Jnat.
Last edited:
Super hard stones that have a good amount of abrasive particles.. i.e - high-quality stones - seem to be fine when finishing on water only.
Inexpensive low quality stones that are super hard, but have a minimum of abrasive particles along with no other redeeming qualities seem to need slurry to finish a blade with.
This isn't suprising - since the stone in question might as well be a piece of marble.
I've always belived that the HGAL references, albeit subjective, should be referred to - that there were 4 major points of interest to consider.
I think there's a voice out there somewhere that claims the only thing that matters is hardness - but I don't agree.
HGAL - hardness, grit, aggressiveness, lightness/touch/feel, I belive all these qualities are important.
Yeah - I know about the study that proved all Jnats had the same size particles. I think that study is lacking in breadth and scope.
It's my opinion that a 5+++ stone that scores low in the other areas is basically useless.
Others may disagree and I'm ok with that.
Here's my point - what good is a super-hard super-fine stone that needs slurry from another stone to finish on?
Why not just use another stone? Why have a Jnat that's just a support block for Nagura?
Might as well just use a Chug then.. seriously.
Softer stones have been easier for me to finish on, but the harder high-quality stone can yield a keener/smoother edge when everything else is constant.
A hard-*** Jnat, will always be more challenging to work on..lighter-than-the-weight-of-the-blade pressure seems to be the calling card and that's an elusive skill.
With those incredibly hard stones - I usually only do a couple of water laps - very short strokes and I end with one very short horizontal stroke on each side.
I apologize for meandering..
As far as the OP's question goes - Going from Coti to Koma/Tomo slurry always seemed to be an exercise in futility. I'm sure there's a technique that would afford the abilithy to do that but I found it easier to start on Mejiro slurry and then go forward.
Inexpensive low quality stones that are super hard, but have a minimum of abrasive particles along with no other redeeming qualities seem to need slurry to finish a blade with.
This isn't suprising - since the stone in question might as well be a piece of marble.
I've always belived that the HGAL references, albeit subjective, should be referred to - that there were 4 major points of interest to consider.
I think there's a voice out there somewhere that claims the only thing that matters is hardness - but I don't agree.
HGAL - hardness, grit, aggressiveness, lightness/touch/feel, I belive all these qualities are important.
Yeah - I know about the study that proved all Jnats had the same size particles. I think that study is lacking in breadth and scope.
It's my opinion that a 5+++ stone that scores low in the other areas is basically useless.
Others may disagree and I'm ok with that.
Here's my point - what good is a super-hard super-fine stone that needs slurry from another stone to finish on?
Why not just use another stone? Why have a Jnat that's just a support block for Nagura?
Might as well just use a Chug then.. seriously.
Softer stones have been easier for me to finish on, but the harder high-quality stone can yield a keener/smoother edge when everything else is constant.
A hard-*** Jnat, will always be more challenging to work on..lighter-than-the-weight-of-the-blade pressure seems to be the calling card and that's an elusive skill.
With those incredibly hard stones - I usually only do a couple of water laps - very short strokes and I end with one very short horizontal stroke on each side.
I apologize for meandering..
As far as the OP's question goes - Going from Coti to Koma/Tomo slurry always seemed to be an exercise in futility. I'm sure there's a technique that would afford the abilithy to do that but I found it easier to start on Mejiro slurry and then go forward.
