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How to Use CrOx, Red Paste, and Black Paste to Maintain Your Edge?

You have such helpful and interesting stuff. Gotta be glad we have someone who grew up around all those barbers.

Question is below...





I have a question.

Did your barber relatives clean their strops? If so, how? I've read of barbers who applied lather to the strop and left it on. I assume they wiped it off in the morning with a towel, but that's only an assumption.

I wouldn't use any of the butter rich artisan lathers to do this, but might consider using a simple tallow soap like Arko or such.

Not that I'm planning anything. I'm just asking.

Happy shaves,

Jim


Most common practice I saw was to brush the strop with lather at end of day or last shave. They would let is site while they cleaned up then wipe off with a either a dry or very well rung out rag before closing up. Never saw anyone leave it on overnight. I think it was more to clean the strop and prevent it from glazing then to condition it. They had a balm that came in a tin that they would occasionally use. Saw a few apply an oil(???) to the backside of the strop. Sorry don't know the names or types.

I've heard of people leaving lather on overnight but never saw anyone do it.

I don't use strops as frequently as they did so I just wipe mine down once a month with a damp rag to keep it hydrated. Use is the best conditioner of a strop. A lot of leathers can contain up to 30% fats, oils and waxes by weight. They don't evaporate or migrate out of a strop so don't need a ton of replenishment. Only strops I found that need reconditioning on occasion are split side. Some guys that craft leather or make strops may have more info.
 
On the US side of the pond have you looked into the pastes that Keith Johnson sells? He doesn't ship to the UK, so I haven't tried them, but they look quite interesting.

I have the white, red, and black from him. I use the white frequently and like the smoothness it can add to an edge.

I do have to pick up the blue paste at some point.
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
Just because they are labelled as such doesn't guarantee they are...

Shaversdelight on eBay sell labelled CrOx and FerOx - labelled at 0.5 and 0.1 accordingly.

HighlandtreesNo.1 sell a 0.3 micron CrOx.

Strop-It are a well regarded company. Have a look on the Invisible Edge for their stuff.

Apologies - these are all UK outlets.

On the US side of the pond have you looked into the pastes that Keith Johnson sells? He doesn't ship to the UK, so I haven't tried them, but they look quite interesting.

I've looked at them, but haven't acquired, seen, or used any of them. My guess is they're great, but it's kinda sorta hard to tell much about them (as far as I've looked into them which isn't very very far). He sells several of them. I don't see much talk about them which is surprising. I know Keith @Gamma knows his stuff.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 
MO1, I do but again it doesn't seem to affect their performance.

I can't explain it but I've tried lapping on all the various hones I've used over the years and then gave up on it because it never affected performance.

Chris
 
There is a good product discussion on the Dovo paste on The Superior Shave Website.

"The red paste has a 2-4 micron particle size average and the feel of a natural product, not the sharper and more aggressive feel of a diamond paste.

The black paste’s similar to chromium oxide.

As soon as you sense your razor’s edge falling off a bit, run it on the red paste for a couple of dozen laps, wipe off the residue, and finish on smooth leather rubbed with the black paste."

There is also a discussion on the “green” paste (6-micron average nominal particle size), which was developed first for carbon steel surgical applications, is to used with very dull razors.

I've found the owner of Jerrod of The Superior Shave to be helpful, I would think he'd answer any questions on the topic.
 
You say that the black paste is similar to chromium oxide. Is there any difference in the feel of the edge with the black paste? As these pasted are recommended to be pasted on leather.
 
You say that the black paste is similar to chromium oxide. Is there any difference in the feel of the edge with the black paste? As these pasted are recommended to be pasted on leather.

That was information from The Superior Shave website regarding the Dovo paste.
 
Dovo Pasting:

I’m new to SR shaving, so I don’t have a wealth of experience to draw on, but I’ve decided that I want to develop a solid SR shaving foundation. With that in mind I'm committed on learning how to use paste, hone, and eventually restore razors.

When I bought my first SR it was from a reputable vendor, Jarrod at The Superior Shave, and I requested that he assemble me a beginner’s package. I ultimately, purchased a more expense and interesting razor then what was suggested but the rest of the package was a beginner’s package.

It consisted of:

Herold 57Ri Calfhide Leather Paddle Strop

Herold 155Ri Basic Calfhide Leather Razor Strop

Linen Strop by Herold

Dovo Red & Black Paste set to be used on the Paddle Strop

Rather than practice pasting and honing on my new Dovo razor, I purchased a couple GD straight edge razors for practice.

With this equipment in hand, I needed to figure out the basics of using Dovo Red & Black Paste. The first thing I did was refer back to the Jerrod’s emails on how to use the paste, then I reviewed his description on his website under the Dovo Paste listing. There he described the paste basics including differences between the red and black, when to use the product, and how to use the product.

I was still curious about how to use paste and the differences, so I found a good article on a competing site (I don’t know how to link articles or videos to the B&B site.) Finally, I watched Lynn Abrams, You Tube video: “Straight Razor Honing-Refreshing Straight Razors,” which was an excellent video how-to reference.

With this seedling of knowledge taking root, I pasted my first razor today. The new out of the box GD was sharp, but not shave ready. I tested it on a tomato and it only cut on 3 of the 5 blade areas. Here’s what I did with the paste:

1) Rubbed my hand over the 57RI paddle strap several times. Warming up the leather and transferring some natural oil from my hand to the leather.

2) Applied the crayon-like Dovo paste: red on one side and black on the other side of the paddle. I used clean thumbs to rub each paste smoothly into the leather. Leaving no lumps or flakes.

3) Let the pasted paddle rest overnight.

4) Holding the paddle firmly but not too tightly, I laid the razor’s spine and the edge flat on the paddle. Spine leading in direction of travel.

5) Pushed away with the spine and edge away in a half “X” pattern, light pressure.

6) Flipped the razor over on the spine.

7) Pulled the razor towards me in the “other half of X" pattern, keeping the spine and edge lightly touching the paddle. Completing the lap.

8) Repeated 15 times for the Red side of the pasted paddle.

9) Wiped the blade off with tissue.

10) Repeated the same technique on the black side for 10 laps.

11) Wiped the blade off with tissue.

12) 25 laps on a linen strop.

13) 50 laps on the calfhide leather strop.

14) Tested on tomato and it was significantly sharper.

I’ll give it a test shave tonight.

20190219_100138.jpg 20190219_100232.jpg
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
I had similar issues with my Hoshi Tombo during FFFMM. One day I would get a nice shave and the next wasn't so good. Even had the edge suddenly appear to go dull on me.
In the end I changed my stropping technique and routine.
Basically I put it down to rolling the edge on my strop.
I've had this happen before as well with other razors.
So, now I've slowed down my stropping strokes and altered the amount I do on pasted linen and clean linen.

It goes something like this before a shave.
6 strokes on CrOx pasted linen.
10 strokes on clean linen.
20 on leather.

After a shave.
10 on clean linen.
20 on leather.

I read a post on the SR forums where it was mentioned that stropping on CrOx, on leather or whatever, can dull the edge if you over do it and less than 10 strokes was recommended.

Doing it the above way seems to keep the edge at its best, for me anyway.
One of the many things I've found out by doing the FFFMM, thanks to Cal for that. :1eye:

Doug has been using CrOx before each shave. Link (and read his later posts in that thread).

Given an edge which developed problems too soon I followed suit (sorta). Link.

After this morning's shave I had to do something with the edge. Not that the shave was really bad or anything, but it wasn't as comfortable or good as I want.

View attachment 968900

First I examined the edge as carefully as I know how with the little microscope.

proxy.php


I couldn't find anything wrong. Having been a smidgeon concerned there might be a chip this was great news; I'm no expert but I can see chips.

Not really knowing what to do I decided to take the edge to the pasted strops.
  • CrOx on linen, about 10 round trips or maybe nine.
  • Wash and dry the blade.
  • Red paste on small leather board strop, about 20 round trips.
  • Wash and dry the blade.
  • Black paste on small black leather strop, about 20 round trips.
  • Wash and dry the blade.
I then stropped a bit on plain linen and stropped about 30 round trips on my horsehide leather strop.

During the leather stropping I noticed a different sound. More of a zing! I don't know if this is good or bad, but it's something.

View attachment 968903
Tomorrow I'll strop preshave as usual and perform a Scientific Shave Test. Then I'll know everything for sure.

Happy shaves,

Jim

My results were excellent. Link.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
Dovo Pasting:

I’m new to SR shaving, so I don’t have a wealth of experience to draw on, but I’ve decided that I want to develop a solid SR shaving foundation. With that in mind I'm committed on learning how to use paste, hone, and eventually restore razors.

When I bought my first SR it was from a reputable vendor, Jarrod at The Superior Shave, and I requested that he assemble me a beginner’s package. I ultimately, purchased a more expense and interesting razor then what was suggested but the rest of the package was a beginner’s package.

It consisted of:

Herold 57Ri Calfhide Leather Paddle Strop

Herold 155Ri Basic Calfhide Leather Razor Strop

Linen Strop by Herold

Dovo Red & Black Paste set to be used on the Paddle Strop

Rather than practice pasting and honing on my new Dovo razor, I purchased a couple GD straight edge razors for practice.

With this equipment in hand, I needed to figure out the basics of using Dovo Red & Black Paste. The first thing I did was refer back to the Jerrod’s emails on how to use the paste, then I reviewed his description on his website under the Dovo Paste listing. There he described the paste basics including differences between the red and black, when to use the product, and how to use the product.

I was still curious about how to use paste and the differences, so I found a good article on a competing site (I don’t know how to link articles or videos to the B&B site.) Finally, I watched Lynn Abrams, You Tube video: “Straight Razor Honing-Refreshing Straight Razors,” which was an excellent video how-to reference.

With this seedling of knowledge taking root, I pasted my first razor today. The new out of the box GD was sharp, but not shave ready. I tested it on a tomato and it only cut on 3 of the 5 blade areas. Here’s what I did with the paste:

1) Rubbed my hand over the 57RI paddle strap several times. Warming up the leather and transferring some natural oil from my hand to the leather.

2) Applied the crayon-like Dovo paste: red on one side and black on the other side of the paddle. I used clean thumbs to rub each paste smoothly into the leather. Leaving no lumps or flakes.

3) Let the pasted paddle rest overnight.

4) Holding the paddle firmly but not too tightly, I laid the razor’s spine and the edge flat on the paddle. Spine leading in direction of travel.

5) Pushed away with the spine and edge away in a half “X” pattern, light pressure.

6) Flipped the razor over on the spine.

7) Pulled the razor towards me in the “other half of X" pattern, keeping the spine and edge lightly touching the paddle. Completing the lap.

8) Repeated 15 times for the Red side of the pasted paddle.

9) Wiped the blade off with tissue.

10) Repeated the same technique on the black side for 10 laps.

11) Wiped the blade off with tissue.

12) 25 laps on a linen strop.

13) 50 laps on the calfhide leather strop.

14) Tested on tomato and it was significantly sharper.

I’ll give it a test shave tonight.

View attachment 954566 View attachment 954567

I'd missed this nice post. Thanks. Sound like we're on to something.
 
For me i use the 0.50 micron green(Maggard)and it works perfectly fine. 15 laps on the nylon pasted strop, clean the balde carfuly whit a tissue, 30 on nylon strop(not pasted) and 60 on leather. The result is great, of course it’s my first time on that straight, that same straight was due for a refresh cause it did start to tug and pull. I’m in at my 12 shaves just by using regular stroping routine(30 on nylon and 60 on leather) and to me the pasted strop refreshing did bring back the razor shave ready just like when I received the razor.
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
For me i use the 0.50 micron green(Maggard)and it works perfectly fine. 15 laps on the nylon pasted strop, clean the balde carfuly whit a tissue, 30 on nylon strop(not pasted) and 60 on leather. The result is great, of course it’s my first time on that straight, that same straight was due for a refresh cause it did start to tug and pull. I’m in at my 12 shaves just by using regular stroping routine(30 on nylon and 60 on leather) and to me the pasted strop refreshing did bring back the razor shave ready just like when I received the razor.

Great to hear, sir.
 
Jim:

What is your latest technique for using pastes?

I've been experimenting lately using the same Filarmonica razor, the same amount of cotton weave (30) and leather laps (60) as constants. I use a Heirloom Artisan Roughout Heavy Draw Steerhide Strop. Daily shaving and beard growth. After the shave I clean the razor and repeat the 30 and 60 laps.

First, I put a coticule edge to the razor and shaved two days with that edge alone. This was a smooth and comfortable edge. I recently purchased this stone and I'm still learning its nuisances.

Second, I introduced 8 laps Crox (Shave Nation's) to the shave. This paste was applied to the inside of the cotton weave on the Heirloom Artisan Roughout Heavy Draw Steerhide Strop. I shaved two days with that edge. The shave was teether and rougher.

Third, I introduced 5 laps Dovo Red Paste to the shave. The Dovo red was applied to a Herold 57RI Calfhide Leather Paddle Strop. I've only completed one of the two shaves so far, but noticed a marked improvement of the edge performance and the smoothness of the shave. I intend to complete the second shave this evening.

I'm interested in seeing what, if anything, the Dovo Black Paste will do to the shave performance. Then I'd like to experiment with a fresh coticule edge and an immediate application of the red paste.
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
Jim:

What is your latest technique for using pastes?

I've been experimenting lately using the same Filarmonica razor, the same amount of cotton weave (30) and leather laps (60) as constants. I use a Heirloom Artisan Roughout Heavy Draw Steerhide Strop. Daily shaving and beard growth. After the shave I clean the razor and repeat the 30 and 60 laps.

First, I put a coticule edge to the razor and shaved two days with that edge alone. This was a smooth and comfortable edge. I recently purchased this stone and I'm still learning its nuisances.

Second, I introduced 8 laps Crox (Shave Nation's) to the shave. This paste was applied to the inside of the cotton weave on the Heirloom Artisan Roughout Heavy Draw Steerhide Strop. I shaved two days with that edge. The shave was teether and rougher.

Third, I introduced 5 laps Dovo Red Paste to the shave. The Dovo red was applied to a Herold 57RI Calfhide Leather Paddle Strop. I've only completed one of the two shaves so far, but noticed a marked improvement of the edge performance and the smoothness of the shave. I intend to complete the second shave this evening.

I'm interested in seeing what, if anything, the Dovo Black Paste will do to the shave performance. Then I'd like to experiment with a fresh coticule edge and an immediate application of the red paste.

Sorry for missing your post until now, Scott. I don't know why I miss so many of my followed threads, but I do. Maybe I've set something up wrong.

Your post is so clear and interesting and precise.

HorsehideStrop.3-4-19.BST.640.JPG


All of my not pasted leather stropping is currently on this wide, hanging horsehide strop.

My other strops?

Strops.640.10-2-18.JPG


The bottom, black strop is coated with Devo Black paste. The small reddish rectangular board strop, with Devo Red paste. The back on my linen strop, CrOx (same as your CrOx); I regret putting the CrOx on that Tony Miller linen and might replace the linen sometime (or not). At the moment I'm not using the Professional Strop (top strop in photo), but that doesn't mean I don't like it because I do.

My paste stropping is nothing like yours. In fact, I'm not really doing any at the moment.

4-12-19.GDCV.Zenith.Kukri.640JPG.JPG


I'm using only this Kukri razor which I bought on eBay for $13.50. It was a plan, linked, that I've stuck with but might change if I have a whim.

The edge has been worked on a good bit. Most recently it was subjected to my Dilucot Oil Honing method, linked, on the rectangular coticule (which uses the slurry stone and slurry, and then moves to no slurry; pressure decreases, etc). Linen and leather stropping followed. I was pleased with the edge but felt it could be a good bit better.

Next, I ran the pasted strops. All three of them. Here's a link to exactly what I did. I wash the edge with soap and water between the pastes and make sure it is really clean. A post soon after the one linked describes the shave again.

After linen and leather the edge was definitely better, much much better. However, it still didn't feel as great as I wanted it to. Could maybe be a little bit more smooth and a tad sharper? Or, maybe I just wanted to see what improvement could still be achieved with an edge already that good?

I decided to use the Zulu Grey. I've had the stone for a while but not used it. Here's a link to the post I did on the honing and shave; see the following post as well.

There was a marked improvement! The edge off the Zulu Grey suits me fine.

The pasted strops may be used when the edge needs it. Or, maybe a few laps on the Zulu Grey to touch it up. I don't exactly have a plan, Scott.

I've become convinced that stropping on linen (10-20 laps) and leather (50-75 laps) both right after my shave and right before my shave is the way to go (for me for now).

proxy.php


I have no idea that anything I'm doing is right or long term. Just muddling along. I admire how precise and systematic your approach is. I've often considered using the various pastes like you are. I've used just the CrOx and not been as impressed as when I also used the Red and the Black. I've not used all three in a discrete manner and am interested in the results you get.

I've also used the pastes to tune up the edges off other stones including off the Ark, and been generally quite impressed and pleased with the capacities of the pastes.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 
Jim:

Third, I introduced 5 laps Dovo Red Paste to the shave. The Dovo red was applied to a Herold 57RI Calfhide Leather Paddle Strop. I've only completed one of the two shaves so far, but noticed a marked improvement of the edge performance and the smoothness of the shave. I intend to complete the second shave this evening.

I'm interested in seeing what, if anything, the Dovo Black Paste will do to the shave performance. Then I'd like to experiment with a fresh coticule edge and an immediate application of the red paste.

I did do the second Dovo Red Paste shave and it was a smooth edge.

I haven't incorporated the Dovo Black Paste yet, I pulled into using a new razor find that recently honed. I do expect to get back to the pastes in a few days.
 
This is a very interesting thread. I'm also planning to go this way for fun. For starters I'm planning to buy the Dovo Red , Blue { cover is blue it seems} from a seller in ebay Fance.
 
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