I use it on my Arkansas stones too.
How to Use CrOx, Red Paste, and Black Paste to Maintain Your Edge?
- Thread starter Chan Eil Whiskers
- Start date
I have no problems with using it on a stone.
Jim, I can't locate the information now but the general consensus on the old forums was that red paste was coarser than crox. I've even read grit ratings seemingly showing the same. I'll see if I can dig it up.
I will say this that if I only use the red (and I tried this before settling on red then crox) the edge is not as smooth or comfortable. Take it for what it's worth.
Experiment and use what works for you.
Chris
I will say this that if I only use the red (and I tried this before settling on red then crox) the edge is not as smooth or comfortable. Take it for what it's worth.
Experiment and use what works for you.
Chris
I sharpen and polish my razors on a set of shaptons. 500, 2000, 4000, 8000 and 16000.
I can sure get an edge of these that will shave.
But after a CrOx finish(which i have pasted on a cotton belt ), the smoothness was completely different.
I did an experiment were i was careful with how i sharpened my razors, looking at the edge after each stone from the bevel setting.
The teeth got smaller by each stone. But my finishing 16k left abit of teeth on the edge. 25 laps on a CrOx pasted cotton belt left the edge completely flat. I used a 120x pocket microscope. The teeth are still there for sure but not visable with this microscope, but it was for sure visable after my finishing stone.
Oh and worth mentioning, way better shaves!
I can sure get an edge of these that will shave.
But after a CrOx finish(which i have pasted on a cotton belt ), the smoothness was completely different.
I did an experiment were i was careful with how i sharpened my razors, looking at the edge after each stone from the bevel setting.
The teeth got smaller by each stone. But my finishing 16k left abit of teeth on the edge. 25 laps on a CrOx pasted cotton belt left the edge completely flat. I used a 120x pocket microscope. The teeth are still there for sure but not visable with this microscope, but it was for sure visable after my finishing stone.
Oh and worth mentioning, way better shaves!
- Thread starter
- #65
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Very good stuff.
You might find this paste adds even more.
Also consider stropping on plain leather before and after the CrOx, just as an experiment.
Both of these suggestions I just made are results of my experiments. I believe both have helped my edges and am interested in whether they might help others.
Happy shaves,
Jim
I'll take things a step further. I strop in between each stage of stone. I'd be curious how that effects the visible teeth you are referencing.
Yeah worth looking into. Just to state the obvious, its not the burr i am refering to.
I was not thougrough enough, sorry about that.
Did some 50 laps on the leather but the teeth was still there, although aligned better, as first i thought it was the burr.
But take it to leather after eatch stone sounds interesting. Worth an experiment for sure
Thank you Jim!
Will look into that!
So I looked into the red paste information posted over a decade ago. At that time the red was rated at approximately 4 or 5 microns in grit while the crox was rated at .5 microns. I believe they were referring to the crayon version in the picture posted above. I can't post the links to these posts here due to the terms of use and duplication of content.
These grit ratings are what I remember and operated under when choosing a paste refreshment routine. I believe the Dovo balsa strop I use is pasted with the red crayon paste.
Are they true? It's anyone's guess. But I know from practical experience for myself that the crox provides a much smoother, more comfortable edge.
For MO1, I use glass backed shaptons to hone. I don't know if yours are glass backed but I'll offer this: the 16k glass backed shapton stone was known to have issues. It's supposedly frangible and can cause a lot of damage to the edge. I've experienced this and I avoid mine and stop at the 8k stone then polish with the crox strop. I purchased my stones years ago and whether or not shapton has improved their offerings of a 16k glass backed stone or not I cannot say. Just a word of caution.
Chris
These grit ratings are what I remember and operated under when choosing a paste refreshment routine. I believe the Dovo balsa strop I use is pasted with the red crayon paste.
Are they true? It's anyone's guess. But I know from practical experience for myself that the crox provides a much smoother, more comfortable edge.
For MO1, I use glass backed shaptons to hone. I don't know if yours are glass backed but I'll offer this: the 16k glass backed shapton stone was known to have issues. It's supposedly frangible and can cause a lot of damage to the edge. I've experienced this and I avoid mine and stop at the 8k stone then polish with the crox strop. I purchased my stones years ago and whether or not shapton has improved their offerings of a 16k glass backed stone or not I cannot say. Just a word of caution.
Chris
I have the glass backed stones aswell.
That would explain why its removing so much metal.
Reading reviews of the stone were only positive.
I will do abit more experimenting.
Thanks!
By the way el alamein,
How do you lap your shaptons?
I used to lap mine with sand paper, and that worked all the way up to the 8k, but lapping the 16k with that left scratches similar to my 500 on the blade.
Lapping with atoma fixed that though.
How do you lap your shaptons?
I used to lap mine with sand paper, and that worked all the way up to the 8k, but lapping the 16k with that left scratches similar to my 500 on the blade.
Lapping with atoma fixed that though.
MO1, I don't lap mine. Doesn't seem to affect their performance.
Chris
Chris
I see, dont you get alot of metal residue on the stones?
- Thread starter
- #74
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
I've read everything I've so far been able to find on how to use the pastes. Well, that's not quite true because I discovered (via a Google search) B&B threads on the pastes from years ago, and I've not read all of them yet.
The information on things like micron sizes and such is all over the place, so I'm depending on sources other than just opinions for those, but is any source accurate and how do we know they are.
One of the most interesting sources on sharpening I've come across said to ignore grits and microns (to a degree) because the only thing that matters is the edge and whether it suits you. I believe that, but it's too hit and miss.
One guy uses the Red before CrOx and then the Black last. I use CrOx, Red, and then Black. We both like our edges. I've not used his way.
Another micron problem? It seems possible (and guys say it happens, but are they right?) that the pastes break down in their micro sizes as you use the paste.
It's because of things like these that I started this thread. It's been helpful to me, but I'm still going to read the old threads I found via Google.
Happy shaves,
Jim
The information on things like micron sizes and such is all over the place, so I'm depending on sources other than just opinions for those, but is any source accurate and how do we know they are.
One of the most interesting sources on sharpening I've come across said to ignore grits and microns (to a degree) because the only thing that matters is the edge and whether it suits you. I believe that, but it's too hit and miss.
One guy uses the Red before CrOx and then the Black last. I use CrOx, Red, and then Black. We both like our edges. I've not used his way.
Another micron problem? It seems possible (and guys say it happens, but are they right?) that the pastes break down in their micro sizes as you use the paste.
It's because of things like these that I started this thread. It's been helpful to me, but I'm still going to read the old threads I found via Google.
Happy shaves,
Jim
Pastes can be a rabbit hole like hones but way cheaper. I have seen everything used from lead to diatomaceous earth mixed with beeswax. It’s true that most pastes breakdown with use and they also become further embedded in the substrate. Only exception is CBN, diamond, garnet etc.
Another confounding factor is source. I have seen come CrOX and FeOx that leave scratches on the bevel that are visible with the naked eye. Micron size can vary widely with the source.
Only advice I have is use your finest for your most frequent use and drop down if that does not hit the sweet spot for you.
How frequent is YMMV and dependent on how good your clean leather stropping is. Wish I could give an XYZ formula but even within my immediate family I have seen wildly divergent practices that all had the same end result.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Another confounding factor is source. I have seen come CrOX and FeOx that leave scratches on the bevel that are visible with the naked eye. Micron size can vary widely with the source.
Only advice I have is use your finest for your most frequent use and drop down if that does not hit the sweet spot for you.
How frequent is YMMV and dependent on how good your clean leather stropping is. Wish I could give an XYZ formula but even within my immediate family I have seen wildly divergent practices that all had the same end result.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Speaking of strops the weirdest one I ever saw was one made of polished steel. My great uncle’s brother in law had one he used daily. He swore it worked great and burnished his edge. He shaved with a straight his whole life and was always clean shaven. Worked for him.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I guess there is CrOx and there is CrOx. I have some that is labelled 0.3 micron, some that is 0.5 micron, some at 1 micron and another labelled at 6 micron!!!
I'm not sure which it should be.
I have kind of been infected by all this factual based practice. For years I stropped in ignorance with a plain strop and a pasted strop. For the pasted strop I would just work in any jewellers compounds I could get my hands on. Now I know about grit ratings and microns and CrOx and FerOx etc it's all way more complicated. I guess my edges are sharper with all this extra knowledge but I'm not entirely sure. [emoji23][emoji23]
- Thread starter
- #78
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
You have such helpful and interesting stuff. Gotta be glad we have someone who grew up around all those barbers.
Question is below...
I have a question.
Did your barber relatives clean their strops? If so, how? I've read of barbers who applied lather to the strop and left it on. I assume they wiped it off in the morning with a towel, but that's only an assumption.
I wouldn't use any of the butter rich artisan lathers to do this, but might consider using a simple tallow soap like Arko or such.
Not that I'm planning anything. I'm just asking.
Happy shaves,
Jim
Question is below...
I have a question.
Did your barber relatives clean their strops? If so, how? I've read of barbers who applied lather to the strop and left it on. I assume they wiped it off in the morning with a towel, but that's only an assumption.
I wouldn't use any of the butter rich artisan lathers to do this, but might consider using a simple tallow soap like Arko or such.
Not that I'm planning anything. I'm just asking.
Happy shaves,
Jim
- Thread starter
- #79
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Most of the CrOx I've seen including the one I use have no micron size information on the package or the website. Perhaps I should wash my linen and buy and apply a better CrOx?
Happy shaves,
Jim
Just because they are labelled as such doesn't guarantee they are...
Shaversdelight on eBay sell labelled CrOx and FerOx - labelled at 0.5 and 0.1 accordingly.
HighlandtreesNo.1 sell a 0.3 micron CrOx.
Strop-It are a well regarded company. Have a look on the Invisible Edge for their stuff.
Apologies - these are all UK outlets.
On the US side of the pond have you looked into the pastes that Keith Johnson sells? He doesn't ship to the UK, so I haven't tried them, but they look quite interesting.
Similar threads
