How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop

[Slash McCoy]

When you guys hold the balsa vertically, are you holding it the tall way in front of you? I Methodized several blades last night and I experimented with holding the balsa vertically on the long edge, basically pointed away from me. I don't know if that makes sense. Picture holding the balsa flat like you would a hone and then just rotating your wrist inward. I found it was easier for me to maintain the same degree of very light contact throughout the length of the stroke than if I hold it up and down like a hanging strop.

Also had the damndest thing happen. One of my razors, a Gradwell (best I can tell is it's a mid-19th century Sheffield brand) is very smooth, almost slippery. It was also the sharpest blade by far *before* I took it to the balsa. When doing my pull strokes, it actually sliced into the balsa at the heel end. Now once could be due to inattention or too much pressure. But it happened again and I was being very deliberate, slow, and with light pressure, and specifically trying to avoid a repeat performance. Less than the weight of the blade was enough to start to slice it into the edge of the balsa. It didn't hurt the edge, as I tested it thoroughly with hanging hair along the entire length. But I'll have to relap my .1 strop now.

Shaved with that blade this morning and it was incredible.

Sideways works. You can do it that way, works just fine. I usually go standing on end. Not necessarily exactly 000 degrees plumb vertical, but close to it, within the comfort range of my wrist and hand. Near vertical is good enough and you won't notice a difference in the result from absolute true vertical.

Condolences on your slice. FYI I try to keep my pull strokes and short x strokes near one end or the other in case I makey booboo. That way I am still good to finish the session. Anyway glad to see you breaking through another epiphany. Getting that pressure crazy low really improves edge quality. As you use the razor and revisit the .1 balsa after every shave, your edge should improve even more, believe it or not.

As The Method came together, it always seemed to me like, "NOW we have achieved the ultimate human created edge!" and then some new idea would circulate and get refined and added to the canon and give us another boost in sharpness and smoothness. Like right now. It is possible to match a Feather DE blade in sharpness, with Method honing. Can't get any better than that. That's as sharp as steel can be, right? RIGHT??? Sometimes I wonder what is next and if we will even be able to detect, appreciate, and fully take advantage of additional improvement. Or, of course, if it will be worth the extra effort.

Remember, there was a time when a Norton 8k was considered a perfectly acceptable finisher. But I don't miss the "good ol days" at all.

Control of the razor is more delicate with next to zero pressure. It will come to you, no worries.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Condolences on your slice. FYI I try to keep my pull strokes and short x strokes near one end or the other in case I makey booboo.

Same here. I was able to work around the slice last night so it wasn't catastrophic.

Any idea what makes this steel so slick? When treetopping, hairs won't even stick to it. I did almost no sanding or polishing when I got it. Thinking back, the swarf is quite black compared to my other blades, as well.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Same here. I was able to work around the slice last night so it wasn't catastrophic.

Any idea what makes this steel so slick? When treetopping, hairs won't even stick to it. I did almost no sanding or polishing when I got it. Thinking back, the swarf is quite black compared to my other blades, as well.

What razor?

Hair shouldn't stick to it. When a hair tip falls onto the razor, tipping it up usually makes the hair tip fall right off.

If your swarf is very heavy you might have a coating of paste. Try rubbing the balsa with a tshirt to remove all paste from the surface. This technique works best with the balsa embedded into the grain, not rolling and scooting around on top of it. But in time your balsa will turn almost black. As long as it is still working, good to go. When it stops working then re-apply and wipe down good. After two or three reloads, or when your balsa gets dented or scratched, re-lap and start all over. Reapplication usually calls for about half as much paste.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

What razor?

Hair shouldn't stick to it. When a hair tip falls onto the razor, tipping it up usually makes the hair tip fall right off.

If your swarf is very heavy you might have a coating of paste. Try rubbing the balsa with a tshirt to remove all paste from the surface. This technique works best with the balsa embedded into the grain, not rolling and scooting around on top of it. But in time your balsa will turn almost black. As long as it is still working, good to go. When it stops working then re-apply and wipe down good. After two or three reloads, or when your balsa gets dented or scratched, re-lap and start all over. Reapplication usually calls for about half as much paste.

I was thinking the swarf from honing, not balsa stropping. My .5 strop is getting noticeably gray but the others less so. I'm pretty confident that I didn't over paste them.

This is the razor. It's noticeably slicker in feel on the balsa than any of my others. Hairs won't stay on the blade even before tipping. They fly off like hay off a scythe. All my others at least I can glance and get an idea of how many arm hairs they're treetopping before I dump them off. Even before taking it through the balsas it was treetopping silently, no resistance at all.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I was thinking the swarf from honing, not balsa stropping. My .5 strop is getting noticeably gray but the others less so. I'm pretty confident that I didn't over paste them.

This is the razor. It's noticeably slicker in feel on the balsa than any of my others. Hairs won't stay on the blade even before tipping. They fly off like hay off a scythe. All my others at least I can glance and get an idea of how many arm hairs they're treetopping before I dump them off. Even before taking it through the balsas it was treetopping silently, no resistance at all.

View attachment 1300504

Well, no clue, then. Shouldn't be a problem tho.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Just wanted to share some more impressions.

I've never been much of a HHT guy because while I have long hair, it's inconsistent. The fine brown ones are very hard to get to cut at all. The coarse gray ones cut easier but it's still not all that consistent. I've had many edges, even pro-honed that won't consistently lop my hairs, and as many have noted, it doesn't necessarily correlate to a good shave.

However: after 50 laps on .5, every edge has gotten to at least a HHT-3. I use the same strand of hair throughout the progression so I can see the progress (that way it doesn't matter if it's fine, coarse, gray, brown, whatever). Some blades have still seen improvement on the .5 with an extra 30-50 laps. Same with moving on to the .25. It seems like more than 50 laps on the .25 doesn't do much. Depending on the blade sometimes I'm getting HHT-4 plus by then-- regardless, it's always an improvement over whatever I ended with on the .5 strop. Now, I haven't actually tried to shave off the .25 because I trust @Slash McCoy, @rbscebu and the other Methodists when they say it's a sour edge (again, proof that a higher HHT isn't necessarily a better edge). Once I hit the .1 strop, the HHT usually improves just a little more. A quieter, smoother degree of HHT-4 for sure, sometimes HHT-5 depending on the blade and the hair I used. I think there's a lot of nuance between HHT-4 and 5, actually. Really none of that matters, because it's just a way to see that the stropping is doing *something*, since there's so very little feedback. And I know that the blades will shave well off the .1, and better over the course of a few days with more maintenance laps on the .1, because I've experienced it, and it's just as has been described throughout this thread.

I had asked earlier about a couple of blades that I had finished on .3u film over paper. I was going to leave them as a control group, as they were quite sharp and reasonably comfortable. I can declare that experiment officially over. After a couple of side-by-side shave tests it was obvious that the Method edges were a little sharper and a lot more comfortable. So I ran those blades through the Method and they're better than ever. Not surprisingly they didn't improve as much off the .5 or even the .25 in terms of sharpness, but the shaves are noticeably better, and that's really what matters, isn't it?

I even said to heck with it and Methodized the jnat finished blade I got the other day. It was great WTG and XTG but a little disappointing in spots ATG and life is too short for that. I shaved with it this morning, 2 passes (WTG and ATG) and it was just right, and closer than the previous 3 pass shave with less irritation.

Anyone who's read all 63 pages of this thread knows all this already, but I thought I would add to the chorus. And this is speaking as a guy who's been honing for a couple months and is still learning from my mistakes.

 

[Mouette]

Sorry guys, going to ask a question that is probably hidden in this thread but really don't have the time today to go through 63 pages of thread!

My question is: How do your pasted balsa strops handle smiling blades? Seriously thinking about going down this route - in fact, I have bought a piece of balsa from our local Bunnings (same as your Home Depot) and have a couple of left over tiles from our kitchen reno with which to stick the balsa too. Even bought some glue to do it with. Just need the time to do it now and then some of the diamond paste.

However, I have a really nice French Frameback with a decidedly smiling blade and with my lack of honing experience, am finding it hard to touch up with the 12k Shapton. Will the pasted balsa work on the smiling frameback?

cheers
Andrew

 

[rbscebu]

You balsa strop a happy edge the same way as you hone a happy edge. You ever-so-slightly raise and lower the heel through each half-lap.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

To add to that, I find that doing my x- strokes in an arc, almost a semi circle helps to regulate the (non) pressure. The pressure difference is minuscule. I use HHT to verify that I'm hitting the whole blade.

 

[rbscebu]

Short X Strokes

The following video is of me doing short X strokes on my 0.1μm diamond pasted balsa strop with a Titan ACRM-2 T.H.60 straight razor. The video shows two (2) complete short X stroke laps.

The pull strokes is similar except there is no or very little vertical movement along the length of the balsa strop. Again, the video would show two (2) completed laps.

 

[Contact_vs_Feedback]

Short X Strokes

The following video is of me doing short X strokes on my 0.1μm diamond pasted balsa strop with a Titan ACRM-2 T.H.60 straight razor. The video shows two (2) complete short X stroke laps.

The pull strokes is similar except there is no or very little vertical movement along the length of the balsa strop. Again, the video would show two (2) completed laps.

The video is unavailable, there must be some issues with the upload as the link is not leading to any video but to the YouTube homepage.

 

[rbscebu]

The video is unavailable, there must be some issues with the upload as the link is not leading to any video but to the YouTube homepage.

This is the first time that I have uploaded a video to YouTube. I may have had the settings wrong. Now I have changed it to public and published the video.

Does it work now?

 

[Contact_vs_Feedback]

This is the first time that I have uploaded a video to YouTube. I may have had the settings wrong. Now I have changed it to public and published the video.

Does it work now?

Yes, it's working now.
The video duration is 14 seconds .

 

[Chard52142]

Short X Strokes

The following video is of me doing short X strokes on my 0.1μm diamond pasted balsa strop with a Titan ACRM-2 T.H.60 straight razor. The video shows two (2) complete short X stroke laps.

The pull strokes is similar except there is no or very little vertical movement along the length of the balsa strop. Again, the video would show two (2) completed laps.

Hey, thanks! Now I understand...I interpreted your X-stroke from the pictures completely wrong...my own mistake!
I was doing it with edge leading...
I practice the strokes immediately with the balsa and razor...

 

[rbscebu]

Starting with a SR that has been honed to shave-ready without tape (in my case off 1.0μm lapping film), my diamond pasted balsa progression consists of:

0.5μm handheld balsa

1. Standard laps x 15
2. Pull strokes x 6
3. Standard laps x 15
4. Pull strokes x 6
5. End-to-end balsa
6. Standard laps x 15
7. Pull strokes x 6
8. Standard laps x 15
9. Short X strokes x 6

Wipe blade clean and wash hands.​

​

0.25μm handheld balsa

1. Standard laps x 15
2. Pull strokes x 6
3. Standard laps x 15
4. Pull strokes x 6
5. End-to-end balsa
6. Standard laps x 15
7. Pull strokes x 6
8. Standard laps x 15
9. Short X strokes x 10

Wipe blade clean and wash hands.​

0.1μm handheld balse

1. Standard laps x 15
2. Pull strokes x 6
3. Standard laps x 15
4. Pull strokes x 6
5. End-to-end balsa
6. Standard laps x 15
7. Pull strokes x 6
8. Standard laps x 15
9. Short X strokes x 14

0.1μm hanging balsa

1. Standard laps x 15
2. Short X strokes x 6
3. Standard laps x 15
4. Short X strokes x 10
5. End-to-end balsa
6. Standard laps x 15
7. Short X strokes x 14
8. Standard laps x 15
9. Short X strokes x 18

Wipe blade clean.​

The above takes me about 15 minutes. Finished.

Before each shave, the SR gets 60 laps on a clean leather strop.

After each shave, the blade is wiped dry (not touching the edge) and gets 6 to 10 laps on a cloth strop. I then repeat the 0.1μm handing balsa (only) routine and takes about 2 minutes. This gives me a guaranteed fresh perfect edge for the next shave with that SR and it may never need touch a whetstone/films again.

With a newly honed SR, I will repeat the above full diamond pasted balsa progression after each shave until I notice no further improvement in the blade's edge. Then no more full balsa progressions unless later I feel that the edge needs a touch-up. (Very rare.)

 

[Mouette]

Hey RBSCEBU, What's the difference between a pull stroke and an X-stroke?
cheers
Andrew

 

[rbscebu]

Hey RBSCEBU, What's the difference between a pull stroke and an X-stroke?
cheers
Andrew

I'll do a video later to show you.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Hey RBSCEBU, What's the difference between a pull stroke and an X-stroke?
cheers
Andrew

Place razor on balsa or film or stone just as you would for a regular stroke, touching the spine down, and then the edge, so that it lays flat on the surface. Let's say that the balsa or whatever honing media is aligned N-S, with N away from you and S toward you. The razor is aligned crossways, in an E-W orientation, your right hand holding the razor on the E side. The nose of the razor is pointing directly across the balsa toward the W edge. The shoulder and stabilizer are just barely off the E edge of the balsa.

Now pull the razor 3/4" to the E, to your right, not traveling N or S at all. Simply sliding across the balsa. The direction of travel is to the E. There is no N-S component. Movement is only about 3/4". Flip the razor and re-position, remembering of course to flip the EDGE up and over, not the spine. Do the sideways pull again. That's a lap. Think of it as running in place. Or wiping the razor on the balsa.

A few of those will strip artifacts from the edge and improve shave comfort and edge longevity significantly. On a microscopic level this can convex the bevel right at the apex and so you want to finish with ordinary X strokes or short X strokes. A short X stroke is just what it sounds like, an X stroke where the razor travels N or S about the same distance as it travels in the E or W direction. Basically just imagine that your balsa is only 4" long, and do your X stroke on that imaginary length. This peaks the apex back up without forming a fin or wire edge. Assuming your pressure is where it ought to be, which is dead light.

Now to make it even more complicated, stand the balsa up on end and do this. Don't hold it horizontal. Hold it vertically. This helps you as you try to reduce pressure to just a faint brush, which is how you really get the full measure of the Method edge. The weight of the razor is no longer bearing down on the balsa. Always hold it in hand, regardless. It does make a difference.

 

[JPO]

Starting with a SR that has been honed to shave-ready without tape (in my case off 1.0μm lapping film), my diamond pasted balsa progression consists of:

0.5μm handheld balsa

1. Standard laps x 15
2. Pull strokes x 6
3. Standard laps x 15
4. Pull strokes x 6
5. End-to-end balsa
6. Standard laps x 15
7. Pull strokes x 6
8. Standard laps x 15
9. Short X strokes x 6

Wipe blade clean and wash hands.​

​

0.25μm handheld balsa

1. Standard laps x 15
2. Pull strokes x 6
3. Standard laps x 15
4. Pull strokes x 6
5. End-to-end balsa
6. Standard laps x 15
7. Pull strokes x 6
8. Standard laps x 15
9. Short X strokes x 10

Wipe blade clean and wash hands.​

0.1μm handheld balse

1. Standard laps x 15
2. Pull strokes x 6
3. Standard laps x 15
4. Pull strokes x 6
5. End-to-end balsa
6. Standard laps x 15
7. Pull strokes x 6
8. Standard laps x 15
9. Short X strokes x 14

0.1μm hanging balsa

1. Standard laps x 15
2. Short X strokes x 6
3. Standard laps x 15
4. Short X strokes x 10
5. End-to-end balsa
6. Standard laps x 15
7. Short X strokes x 14
8. Standard laps x 15
9. Short X strokes x 18

Wipe blade clean.​

The above takes me about 15 minutes. Finished.

Before each shave, the SR gets 60 laps on a clean leather strop.

After each shave, the blade is wiped dry (not touching the edge) and gets 6 to 10 laps on a cloth strop. I then repeat the 0.1μm handing balsa (only) routine and takes about 2 minutes. This gives me a guaranteed fresh perfect edge for the next shave with that SR and it may never need touch a whetstone/films again.

With a newly honed SR, I will repeat the above full diamond pasted balsa progression after each shave until I notice no further improvement in the blade's edge. Then no more full balsa progressions unless later I feel that the edge needs a touch-up. (Very rare.)

Hopefully i am not repeating things already covered in this extensive thread.
There is a blog which i am not allowed to link to here which indicate that at some grit level the size of the abrasive particle is less important than the substrate it is applied to.
I am not sure if that applies to balsa, because he used something else.
Do you find an improvement after the 0.25 micron on balsa?

I have only used the green stuff on balsa before and CBN on leather. Some harder steel really seem to like some strokes on balsa after a synthetic progression. I am just afraid that to many strokes leads to a convex edge. I really like to preserve the geometry of the edge as much as possible. So, when i used balsa i only did around 5 light strokes, and test shaved. I can not recall needing to revisit the balsa to improve the edge. Maybe it just smoothed out the little "sparklies" at the edge.
I guess if you continue using the balsa for maintenance the edge will reach more or less an equilibrium state, where you are only maintaining the convex geometry. Seems like a really simple and good system if you are not that interested in using expensive stones.
I like my stones, but there is also something interesting about different abrasives on different substrates. Even lapping film on different backing.
I have worked with metal fatigue in steel design. The pasted convex edge should at least in theory be more durable.

 

[rbscebu]

Hopefully i am not repeating things already covered in this extensive thread.
There is a blog which i am not allowed to link to here which indicate that at some grit level the size of the abrasive particle is less important than the substrate it is applied to.
I am not sure if that applies to balsa, because he used something else.
Do you find an improvement after the 0.25 micron on balsa?

I have only used the green stuff on balsa before and CBN on leather. Some harder steel really seem to like some strokes on balsa after a synthetic progression. I am just afraid that to many strokes leads to a convex edge. I really like to preserve the geometry of the edge as much as possible. So, when i used balsa i only did around 5 light strokes, and test shaved. I can not recall needing to revisit the balsa to improve the edge. Maybe it just smoothed out the little "sparklies" at the edge.
I guess if you continue using the balsa for maintenance the edge will reach more or less an equilibrium state, where you are only maintaining the convex geometry. Seems like a really simple and good system if you are not that interested in using expensive stones.
I like my stones, but there is also something interesting about different abrasives on different substrates. Even lapping film on different backing.
I have worked with metal fatigue in steel design. The pasted convex edge should at least in theory be more durable.

There is very little "give" in a properly constructed balsa strop when used with the pressure (or lack thereof) on a SR.

When a balsa strop is properly pasted, the diamond particles are embedded into the surface of the balsa with none "rolling around" on its surface. This greatly reduces the scratch depth on the bevel.

I dare say that there is little to almost no convexing of the bevel/edge when stropping on diamond pasted balsa that has been properly prepared and used. I would be more concerned about bevel/edge convexity being introduced due to stropping on hanging clean leather before each shave. The hanging clean leather has a lot more "give" in it that a balsa strop has.

As I have never needed to return a blade to a whetstone/films for refreshing the edge, I cannot comment on whether any convexity that may be in a blade's bevel/edge brought about by balsa and/or clean leather stropping affects the refresh result.

I have only rarely shaved of a 0.25μm diamond pasted balsa strop. On each occasion it gave me the worst shave compared against 1.0μm film, 0.5μm balsa and 0.1μm balsa.