How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop

[Tester28]

I'm brand new to straights and this was a great read for me, thanks.
One question: What is meant by a "pull stroke"?

I just finished reading the whole thread....very enlightening.

However Im still unclear as to what a 'pull' stroke really is.

I saw a photo of a kamisori lying on the stop with a red arrow indicating
that the blade needs to be pulled sideways by an inch or so....I just cant
visualise this step without thinking it might slice the balsa.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I just finished reading the whole thread....very enlightening.

However Im still unclear as to what a 'pull' stroke really is.

I saw a photo of a kamisori lying on the stop with a red arrow indicating
that the blade needs to be pulled sideways by an inch or so....I just cant
visualise this step without thinking it might slice the balsa.

Yes, it might and it will slice the balsa if you are careless. This is sort of touchy. You want to have a very slight spine-leading bias on the blade, the less angle, the better it clears the edge. However if it happens to go even slightly edge-leading it may slice into the balsa. And pressure must be very light. I hold my balsa in the vertical position so that the weight of the razor is not a factor in pressure. It is all pretty obvious when you think about it. This was pointed out somewhere in the thread, I believe. You could do a search within the thread for "pull stroke".

 

[Tester28]

Actually no. Perhaps I use the wrong word. But what I mean is drawing the razor straight across the balsa, or nearly so. This must be done carefully to avoid slicing the balsa. But apparently it is an old trick used for sharpening japanese swords. Anyway it seems to lessen the incidence of fin edge. With the strop oriented to/away from the user, the razor in the right hand and laying across the balsa, the razor is drawn carefully about 1/2" to 1" directly toward the right, then flipped onto the otehr side and drawn across again.

Ah, the 1/2" sideways pull. 90 degrees from the normal honing/stropping motion.
View attachment 803656

These were the posts I read on the subject....and I wasn't clear.

Then I read your explanation below:

Yes, it might and it will slice the balsa if you are careless. This is sort of touchy. You want to have a very slight spine-leading bias on the blade, the less angle, the better it clears the edge. However if it happens to go even slightly edge-leading it may slice into the balsa. And pressure must be very light. I hold my balsa in the vertical position so that the weight of the razor is not a factor in pressure. It is all pretty obvious when you think about it. This was pointed out somewhere in the thread, I believe. You could do a search within the thread for "pull stroke".

What I get from this is that the edge isn't in contact with the wood as the pull happens. But
the spine is.

 

[Tester28]

Picked up some nicely grained 1/2 inch thick Australian balsa in 36X3 in.
The 1/4 inch planks looked a little marked and not in great shape.

And found a neighbourhood workshop that will cut me some acrylic blocks at a
decent price.

However, they offer thicknesses that can't be customised....either 12mm, 15mm or 18mm...
(0.47inches / 0.59/ 0.70 inches).

Since the balsa is 1/2 inch thick, wonder if I can get away with 0.47 inch acrylic.

Any advice?

 

[Yoteboy]

Go with the thicker 18mm stuff in order to protect your fingers.

 

[Hans1980]

Many thanks for this method!
This progression definitely takes an edge up a notch.
I ordered 0.50, 0.25 and 0.10 techdiamondtools paste from ebay but I think there might be a problem with it.
The 0.10 is taking off more material than the 0.25 paste which leads me to believe the labels have been mixed up.
Did anybody else have a similar experience?
If the labels are mixed up this presents a problem because, as I understand it, finishing on the 0.25 can leave a slight foil here and there, while the 0.10 is the finish that removes it.
The edge is very keen but possibly not as comfortable as it should be.
I'm not sure because I've been experimenting a lot this past week and had one very bad shave as a consequence.
I guess my skin is in dire need of a rest. LOL

 

[Slash McCoy]

Many thanks for this method!
This progression definitely takes an edge up a notch.
I ordered 0.50, 0.25 and 0.10 techdiamondtools paste from ebay but I think there might be a problem with it.
The 0.10 is taking off more material than the 0.25 paste which leads me to believe the labels have been mixed up.
Did anybody else have a similar experience?
If the labels are mixed up this presents a problem because, as I understand it, finishing on the 0.25 can leave a slight foil here and there, while the 0.10 is the finish that removes it.
The edge is very keen but possibly not as comfortable as it should be.
I'm not sure because I've been experimenting a lot this past week and had one very bad shave as a consequence.
I guess my skin is in dire need of a rest. LOL

Unlikely that the labels were mixed up. You could contact the seller and ask if anybody else noticed this. Another thing... try another razor, and this time perform one of the standard sharpness tests between stages. There should be a perceptible improvement in edge performance after the .1u diamond.

Is the balsa the same? Lapped the same? Also just to be absolutely certain that there is no mistake, look at the labels with a loupe and make sure there is no barely visible decimal point confusing the issue.

How is the seller's rating? Product reviews?

I have never had a product failure like that. Make sure that there actually is a failure before trying to correct it.

You are shaving with a seriously sharp edge now. You will probably need to change your shave a bit, particularly your shave angle. Try lowering the spine nearly to the skin.

A well developed .1u diamond/balsa edge should treetop arm hair quite well at 1/4" above the skin. If it doesn't, there is a good chance that you have not maxed out yet.

 

[Hans1980]

Unlikely that the labels were mixed up. You could contact the seller and ask if anybody else noticed this. Another thing... try another razor, and this time perform one of the standard sharpness tests between stages. There should be a perceptible improvement in edge performance after the .1u diamond.

Is the balsa the same? Lapped the same? Also just to be absolutely certain that there is no mistake, look at the labels with a loupe and make sure there is no barely visible decimal point confusing the issue.

How is the seller's rating? Product reviews?

I have never had a product failure like that. Make sure that there actually is a failure before trying to correct it.

You are shaving with a seriously sharp edge now. You will probably need to change your shave a bit, particularly your shave angle. Try lowering the spine nearly to the skin.

A well developed .1u diamond/balsa edge should treetop arm hair quite well at 1/4" above the skin. If it doesn't, there is a good chance that you have not maxed out yet.

Hi Slash. Thanks for the very quick reply!
Double checked the labels.
The syringes themselves are labeled as 50.000, 100.000 and 200.000 grit. (A corresponding micron table is provided by the seller.)
Concentration is 25%. A bit high but I used little product and wiped it down very well.
The balsa comes from 1 long piece (20mm thick) and both sides where flattened on glass with 240grit 3M Sandpaper.
Every piece was blown with compressed air to avoid stuck particles from the sandpaper and cleaned with kitchen paper.
The underside (flattened in the same manner) exhibits a vacuum effect on a flat surface and the razors run over the balsa very smoothly indeed.
The lack of agression from the 0.25 paste was noticed with other smaller pieces of balsa as well. (used for preliminary testing.)
In effect this is my third set of balsa and the result is the same for all of them.
Relative to the 0.50 the 0.25 removes allmost no material whatsoever and the 0.10 seems to remove too much. A lot more than the 0.25 in any case.
The seller has an 99.6% approval rating but there are no specific review for the progression I ordered. (I can post the link if that's allowed...)
I have extensive experience shaving with shavettes including feather artist club and feather DE blades, so I'm quite used to a very sharp edge.
On other razors I have put a scienceofsharp edge which is another method that gives a wicked sharp result.
I percieved a lack of aggression from the 0.25 with that method as well.
I did the balsa progression on more than one razor at one point. They all treetop very very well indeed.
(In fact. I'm suffering from a lack of treetoppable armhairs at the moment.)
But they would probably still do that if the 0.25 and 0.10 where reversed. No?

I can't say for sure that I have all angles covered here but it remains counterintuitive that 0.10u paste takes away more material from the blade than 0.25u.
For me there are three possible explanations for that.
1. There is indeed a mix up of labels.
2. There is a serious lack of concentration on the 0.25 paste.
(That still doesn't explain the relatively high removal rate of the 0.10u tough.)
3. It's normal and other people experience it as well.
(Weird mechanisms can come into play at a nanoscopic scale.)

 

[Hans1980]

I'm just not sure how to troubleshoot this properly because I have no solid reference point at the moment.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Hi Slash. Thanks for the very quick reply!
Double checked the labels.
The syringes themselves are labeled as 50.000, 100.000 and 200.000 grit. (A corresponding micron table is provided by the seller.)
Concentration is 25%. A bit high but I used little product and wiped it down very well.
The balsa comes from 1 long piece (20mm thick) and both sides where flattened on glass with 240grit 3M Sandpaper.
Every piece was blown with compressed air to avoid stuck particles from the sandpaper and cleaned with kitchen paper.
The underside (flattened in the same manner) exhibits a vacuum effect on a flat surface and the razors run over the balsa very smoothly indeed.
The lack of agression from the 0.25 paste was noticed with other smaller pieces of balsa as well. (used for preliminary testing.)
In effect this is my third set of balsa and the result is the same for all of them.
Relative to the 0.50 the 0.25 removes allmost no material whatsoever and the 0.10 seems to remove too much. A lot more than the 0.25 in any case.
The seller has an 99.6% approval rating but there are no specific review for the progression I ordered. (I can post the link if that's allowed...)
I have extensive experience shaving with shavettes including feather artist club and feather DE blades, so I'm quite used to a very sharp edge.
On other razors I have put a scienceofsharp edge which is another method that gives a wicked sharp result.
I percieved a lack of aggression from the 0.25 with that method as well.
I did the balsa progression on more than one razor at one point. They all treetop very very well indeed.
(In fact. I'm suffering from a lack of treetoppable armhairs at the moment.)
But they would probably still do that if the 0.25 and 0.10 where reversed. No?

I can't say for sure that I have all angles covered here but it remains counterintuitive that 0.10u paste takes away more material from the blade than 0.25u.
For me there are three possible explanations for that.
1. There is indeed a mix up of labels.
2. There is a serious lack of concentration on the 0.25 paste.
(That still doesn't explain the relatively high removal rate of the 0.10u tough.)
3. It's normal and other people experience it as well.
(Weird mechanisms can come into play at a nanoscopic scale.)

Well, did you attempt to treetop or use HHT before/after each stage? What you are looking for is a barely perceptible increase in cutting ability after each stage. A good .25u edge should treetop. Typically with less completion and more sound and hair base disturbance, of course. The .1u should treetop more effectively and with less sound and disturbance than the .25u. Similar thing with the HHT. If you have no suitable hair donor, you can get a pack of hair from a beauty supply store like what is used for weaves or glue-ins. Make sure it is natural and not synthetic. Dyed is okay. Straight hair, of course. Follow the "official" HHT procedure as found on the coticule.be site. Hanging Hair Test - home of the famous Belgian Coticule Whetstone

You could try a few shaves without the diamond labeled .1u and see how it goes. You could also try another buy of .1u from a different seller.

Could be the .1u is of lower quality or is polycrystaline rather than mono, or vice versa, or whatever. I have not ran into the situation you are experiencing. I suspect from your observations that your conclusions or possible conclusions are right, and there is some mixup. Post a product review with your observations, and see if you get any comments. After another round of sharpness tests done between the grits, and a few shave tests. Do you think maybe the .1u is actually 1u? I would be quicker to suspect that one size is mislabeled before suspecting that two sizes are mislabeled. How does the .1u-labeled paste compare in results to the .5u-labeled paste?

If you know someone with a proper microscope, maybe he could examine a sample of all three on a slide, for comparison. You would want to go about 2k magnification. A handheld device won't tell you anything, I don't think.

You will get this sorted out soon, I am sure. You are nearly there!

 

[Slash McCoy]

Come to think of it, you should be able to tell the difference in the scratch pattern between grits, with a 100x handheld USB microscope. If you have one, now is a good opportunity to play around with it.

 

[Hans1980]

Well, did you attempt to treetop or use HHT before/after each stage? What you are looking for is a barely perceptible increase in cutting ability after each stage. A good .25u edge should treetop. Typically with less completion and more sound and hair base disturbance, of course. The .1u should treetop more effectively and with less sound and disturbance than the .25u. Similar thing with the HHT. If you have no suitable hair donor, you can get a pack of hair from a beauty supply store like what is used for weaves or glue-ins. Make sure it is natural and not synthetic. Dyed is okay. Straight hair, of course. Follow the "official" HHT procedure as found on the coticule.be site. Hanging Hair Test - home of the famous Belgian Coticule Whetstone

You could try a few shaves without the diamond labeled .1u and see how it goes. You could also try another buy of .1u from a different seller.

Could be the .1u is of lower quality or is polycrystaline rather than mono, or vice versa, or whatever. I have not ran into the situation you are experiencing. I suspect from your observations that your conclusions or possible conclusions are right, and there is some mixup. Post a product review with your observations, and see if you get any comments. After another round of sharpness tests done between the grits, and a few shave tests. Do you think maybe the .1u is actually 1u? I would be quicker to suspect that one size is mislabeled before suspecting that two sizes are mislabeled. How does the .1u-labeled paste compare in results to the .5u-labeled paste?

If you know someone with a proper microscope, maybe he could examine a sample of all three on a slide, for comparison. You would want to go about 2k magnification. A handheld device won't tell you anything, I don't think.

You will get this sorted out soon, I am sure. You are nearly there!

Thanks Slash.
I didn't meticulously compared treetopping efficiency between 0.25 and 0.10 yet. Just the odd check if all is well .
The 0.1u being 1u is extremely unlikely because the 0.5u is definately the most agressive at removing metal and there is most definately no obvious setback in keenness after the 0.10u.
Never tried the official hanging hair test. (yet.)
I just look for thin difficult to top hairs and and have a little match between well known edges and the one I'm working on.
The difference between 0.25 and 0.10 might be too subtle for that.
BTW. Are you adament that the 0.10 finish is keener than 0.25?
Reason I ask is that your comments in this thread gave me the impression that the use of 0.10u gives a smoother (= foil free) edge. Not necessarily sharper.
Not trying to contradict you here, just making sure.
(Second reason I ask is that the scienceofsharp blog observed foil removal with 0.10u diamond at the cost of a slight reduction of keenness compared to 0.25u.
The medium was leather instead of balsa so there's that offcourse...
Just thought it was interesting...)
So to troubleshoot...
I do the complete progression and test for sharpness in between 0.25 and 0.10.
Repeat the complete progression starting from 0.50, reverse 0.10 and 0.25 and test for sharpness again.
Do the same with a shavetest as a final test.
Sounds right?

 

[Hans1980]

Don't have a USB microscope but I want one to test stuff like this.
Could come in handy for assesing the wear on lapping film too.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Thanks Slash.
I didn't meticulously compared treetopping efficiency between 0.25 and 0.10 yet. Just the odd check if all is well .
The 0.1u being 1u is extremely unlikely because the 0.5u is definately the most agressive at removing metal and there is most definately no obvious setback in keenness after the 0.10u.
Never tried the official hanging hair test. (yet.)
I just look for thin difficult to top hairs and and have a little match between well known edges and the one I'm working on.
The difference between 0.25 and 0.10 might be too subtle for that.
BTW. Are you adament that the 0.10 finish is keener than 0.25?
Reason I ask is that your comments in this thread gave me the impression that the use of 0.10u gives a smoother (= foil free) edge. Not necessarily sharper.
Not trying to contradict you here, just making sure.
(Second reason I ask is that the scienceofsharp blog observed foil removal with 0.10u diamond at the cost of a slight reduction of keenness compared to 0.25u.
The medium was leather instead of balsa so there's that offcourse...
Just thought it was interesting...)
So to troubleshoot...
I do the complete progression and test for sharpness in between 0.25 and 0.10.
Repeat the complete progression starting from 0.50, reverse 0.10 and 0.25 and test for sharpness again.
Do the same with a shavetest as a final test.
Sounds right?

Oh no, the .1u definitely improves sharpness, as well as perceived smoothness. As it should, being finer grit. The difference in sharpness kind of gets into a very subjective scale.

Yeah, test for sharpness at every grit change. Why not? If you want to go through it again but change the order of the grits, sure, go for it. Won't hurt anything and it could maybe reveal things to you that otherwise might not be obvious.

Definitely shave after the .5u and the .25u diamond. Then the next day do the full progression again. The next day, well, try something else, like swapping the last two grits. Whatever. Shave test is the ultimate test since a good shave is the whole point of honing and stropping.

A 100x USB microscope can be had pretty cheap and can be quite a useful tool in honing. It allows you to zero in at a much deeper level than a loupe. The loupe has the advantage of quick and easy deployment, and showing the bigger picture. If you are gonna be serious about honing, you should figure on getting both. A full blown microscope is maybe overkill as a practical analytic tool in honing but can be good for hours of fascinating observing, especially if you have a USB camera eyepiece for it.

 

[Hans1980]

Oh no, the .1u definitely improves sharpness, as well as perceived smoothness. As it should, being finer grit. The difference in sharpness kind of gets into a very subjective scale.

Yeah, test for sharpness at every grit change. Why not? If you want to go through it again but change the order of the grits, sure, go for it. Won't hurt anything and it could maybe reveal things to you that otherwise might not be obvious.

Definitely shave after the .5u and the .25u diamond. Then the next day do the full progression again. The next day, well, try something else, like swapping the last two grits. Whatever. Shave test is the ultimate test since a good shave is the whole point of honing and stropping.

A 100x USB microscope can be had pretty cheap and can be quite a useful tool in honing. It allows you to zero in at a much deeper level than a loupe. The loupe has the advantage of quick and easy deployment, and showing the bigger picture. If you are gonna be serious about honing, you should figure on getting both. A full blown microscope is maybe overkill as a practical analytic tool in honing but can be good for hours of fascinating observing, especially if you have a USB camera eyepiece for it.

I'm just going to reverse the 0.10u and 0.25u tomorrow and shave with it.
The labels being reversed is the most logical explanation of what is going on anyway so why not start there?
Thanks for the help. Really appreciate it.

 

[jholen]

Placed my order for diamond pastes from Ted Pella and some a set of 3 x 1/2" acrylic 4"x12" plates off the bay.

Gonna swing into town tomorrow and get the balsa.

1/16" is for the unpasted stropping and 1/2" for paste, correct?

 

[Slash McCoy]

Placed my order for diamond pastes from Ted Pella and some a set of 3 x 1/2" acrylic 4"x12" plates off the bay.

Gonna swing into town tomorrow and get the balsa.

1/16" is for the unpasted stropping and 1/2" for paste, correct?

Hardly anyone uses the unpasted balsa. I may have been the only one using it, and I decided it really didn't earn its keep. For pasted strops I have been using 1/4" thick balsa glued to 3/4" thick acrylic and most everyone else, too. A couple of guys are using 1" thick acrylic under the balsa. Half inch balsa is okay but the thicker you get, the more subject the balsa is to swelling out of flatness even though the back side is glued to a rigid flat surface. Thin balsa will wear through in just a few years of use and lapping. 1/4" is just right, like Mama Bear's porridge.

Ted Pella's diamond is not cheap but it is of indubitable quality. You are going first class with his paste.

Don't forget to get some glue. Don't get gorilla glue. It expands as it cures. Rubber cement works. Spray adhesive works.

 

[jholen]

Hardly anyone uses the unpasted balsa. I may have been the only one using it, and I decided it really didn't earn its keep. For pasted strops I have been using 1/4" thick balsa glued to 3/4" thick acrylic and most everyone else, too. A couple of guys are using 1" thick acrylic under the balsa. Half inch balsa is okay but the thicker you get, the more subject the balsa is to swelling out of flatness even though the back side is glued to a rigid flat surface. Thin balsa will wear through in just a few years of use and lapping. 1/4" is just right, like Mama Bear's porridge.

Ted Pella's diamond is not cheap but it is of indubitable quality. You are going first class with his paste.

Don't forget to get some glue. Don't get gorilla glue. It expands as it cures. Rubber cement works. Spray adhesive works.

Got some 5 minute epoxy left over from my razor stand I hacked together.


Been using a slab of quartz and 400 grit paper for lapping. Worked good for stones when wet down... Guessing I'll have to maybe tape it down for lapping the balsa.

 

[Tester28]

Don't forget to get some glue. Don't get gorilla glue. It expands as it cures. Rubber cement works. Spray adhesive works.

I prefer not to use spray if I can help it...are there any other alternatives beside rubber cement?
I have 2 part epoxy....just trying to see if I can use something I already have.

If using rubber cement, must one coat balsa and wood over 100% of its surface....or just a few dabs....
four corners and centre?

 

[RumpleBearskin]

I used a 2-part epoxy and then lapped the balsa after it had all set up to compensate for any absorption and/or expansion. The only downside is that it will never come off, so if I ever wear down the balsa too far I have to get new substrate and start all over. Of course that will be years and years from now.