How to Strop and How to Know if you rolled the edge?

[Kyle Hyde]

As a newbie, how do you know if you are stropping properly? I've been using a very light touch, but I feel like I might need to use more pressure because I feel like stropping the way I am isn't really doing anything.

Once I start using a little more pressure, how do I know if I used too much and rolled the edge? Is it something that can be felt? Can you see a rolled edge with a magnifying glass or do you need something stronger?

 

[redwoolf]

As a newbie, how do you know if you are stropping properly? I've been using a very light touch, but I feel like I might need to use more pressure because I feel like stropping the way I am isn't really doing anything.

Once I start using a little more pressure, how do I know if I used too much and rolled the edge? Is it something that can be felt? Can you see a rolled edge with a magnifying glass or do you need something stronger?

I've been wondering the same thing myself.

 

[conteins]

in for an answer.

 

[AFDavis11]

It is hard to tell, isn't it? First, I think that a strop by it's very nature should only be demanded upon to maintain the current edge. Since most strop every day, in theory you'd never really sense anything until way late in the honing cycle. Long after you've honed, a month or so out, you'll probably start to sense that it's not working anymore. Then you'll get a good sense of what it should be doing. But, again, it's typically not really doing anything.

Think of it as keeping sharp, sharp.

Sometimes though I need to improve an edge with a strop. It's no easy feat. I use pressure and a taut strop for several laps, sometimes even using the linen first, and then follow this up with light stropping again. It's almost as if I have a need to re-extend the fin (even though I'm not really sure it exists). Afterward, I can use a light touch for quite a while again. I'm back to the maintaining sharp, sharp.

In the extreme is when the edge really isn't working. Then I add a slight deflection. I don't hold the strop tightly. I hold it loosely and it deflects. Big challenge though is watching it closely and replicating that deflection repeatably. Big issue with straights is that everything you do is about being gentle but doing it over and over and over again. This applies to honing as well as stropping. But, only a few strokes with deflection and the problem is corrected, usually. If you do this though you'll be honing more often. The edge will dull quite a bit faster.

In applying pressure, something I do very often really, maybe once a week you do need to be careful. I might suggest that you have to apply pressure more to the spine than the edge. The amount of pressure needed is NO MORE than that amount that produces draw. Unfortunately, some strops produce very little draw, but I don't know of another measure.

I've never heard anyone else say (post) this but my first sense that I have used too much pressure is dulling the edge. If the edge suddenly dulls from stropping I've used too much pressure. Why this happens I haven't a clue. Rolling is much, much, much more severe. My only guess, at 4 am (despite having wondered about this before) is that the over pressured edge gets deformed just like if you strop with sag. When you use too much pressure you create the same general geometry as when you allow sag. The strop attacks the edge at an angle. This is generally a bad thing.

I think of stropping as a very gentle edge polishing, using an angle that is just a hair (no pun intended) greater than anything you can produce with a hone.

The more you are likely to use a really high grit hone the more likely you'll not notice big differences in stropping. At 12K (with a few years of practice under my belt) I notice no difference at all between strop and hone. But, if done with the lightest effective pressure everytime, and a careful concern for edge geometry, the strop keeps the razor quite sharp for a long time. It produces a nice smooth edge that never seems to dull. Keep in mind that a lot of guys shave 5 times on an edge (a DE) and toss it. So technically the strop might be doing a lot of work and getting very little of the credit it's due.

 

[forum9]

I strop my razor on a leather hanging strop before each shave.

Two reasons:

To remove any oxidation or rust that will have formed on the cutting bevel/edge of the blade.

To aligne the metal at the edge of the blade into a straight edge.

If I don’t do this, the edge feels uncomfortable. If I do it, the edge feels like sharp and smooth.

If you use a butter knife instead of your razor, you can develop the action without havingt o worry about cutting the leather.

The pressure should be on the spine of the blade. If the strop is being held taught with the weight of your arm. Not tugging it but just a gentle pull. The pressure on the spine is enough to keep the spine on the leather so that it will stay firmly on the leather as you slide it backwards and forwards up and down the leather. The spine never leaves the leather when you are stropping. So the pressure is actually on the spine not the edge. You lower the edge to the leather using the tips of your first finger and thumb. the rest of your hand is applying the pressure to the spine. The pressure to the edge is gentle so that the edge brushes the leather. You should se the nap of the leather flatten and change shade as the edge passes accross it.

After the initial honing of a blade, stropping (for me) actually makes the edge feel softer for the first few days. Then it maintains the sharpness for a daily shave of between a month to six weeks. The blade then progressively starts to feel duller and duller until it needs to be rehoned. You know it is getting dull, because it will start to pull and stop cutting.

If I ever strop the edeg badly. By that I mean that I loose the pressure on the strop and the strop becomes floppy. The effect will be to dull the edge.
Sometimes extra stropping will rectufy it sometimes, you need to rehone.

Just so you know, I have not done that for years. Once you have got the technique, you will see ot is easy and not something that you ever muck up unless you are half asleep or drunk with your senses not working. Mind you, that can and has happened to me many times when I was in my twenties.

Enough is about fifty (backwards and forwards) strokes.

I hope that helps.

 

[Ru4scuba?]

Good replies guys...thanks for the info!

 

[redwoolf]

Good replies guys...thanks for the info!

Ditto!

 

[mark3d]

i found that a few different styles of razors improved my stropping. each needs a slightly different, yet similar, technique. the similar bit is the important part (e.g. turning the razor between the fingers, not turning the whole wrist).

also i apply enough pressure to ensure the length of the blade touches the leather both ways. although its not really pressure, more angling the trailing (sharp) edge down.

.

 

[Bertilak]

As a newbie, how do you know if you are stropping properly? I've been using a very light touch, but I feel like I might need to use more pressure because I feel like stropping the way I am isn't really doing anything.

Once I start using a little more pressure, how do I know if I used too much and rolled the edge? Is it something that can be felt? Can you see a rolled edge with a magnifying glass or do you need something stronger?

"Once I start using a little more pressure ... " -- well, first of all, don't do that.

"roll ... the edge" -- I can't answer that directly, but one way you can see if your stropping is effective is to stop doing it for two, three, or four shaves or until the razor seems to be getting "duller" then give it a good* stropping and see if that improves your shave. If that seems to be inconclusive, do it again for one more shave.

* good: about 40 laps on fabric and 80 laps on leather -- all without any "added" pressure beyond the weight of the blade.

 

[riooso]

When you strop pull the strop pretty tight so that is does not deflect when you strop. There have been guys that have done some ancedotal tests and found that it was more difficult to roll an edge when you strop with a tight strop.

Don't increase pressure for a very long time, like a year or two. Go very light.

I have found that on the first stroke on the side that is rolled you will feel a "harshness" that is not normal. Stop using that razor till you can fix the problem. Another way to find a rolled edge is to use a toothpick and very lightly push the end of the toothpick, while it is touching the blade, in the direction from the spline to the edge and see if it "catches". If it does you have either a badly rolled edge or a wire edge...either one iis bad.



Later,
Richard

 

[richmondesi]

First, I agree with Allen (AFDavis11), I believe the strop does much more work than it gets credit for. However, there are so many variables that we can't really quantify that makes this a very challenging area to convey with the written word. Allen experiments a lot more than I do with stropping as well, so I trust that his understanding/knowledge is more advanced than mine.

If you understand how rolled edges happen, you should be able to understand how to "tell" if you have a rolled edge. It happens when lifting the spine while stropping (IMHO it takes some real pressure as well). But, it creates a literally "rolled" fin. That's what is being talked about when we talk about a "rolled" edge. Dulling the razor on the strop, like Allen described isn't the same thing as I understand it.

How to strop properly, also has a lot of variables. There's a pretty well known video of Liam using a LOT of deflection, and "our" best information says that stropping on a relatively taut strop is the "best" way. The key is figuring out the right amount of pressure on the razor and tautness/deflection desired.

In other words, you just have to work at it and figure it out.

 

[Ru4scuba?]

Good point Paul.

 

[Kyle Hyde]

I'm thinking my problem wasn't a lack of pressure but that I was holding the strop too taut--so taught that it was difficult to maintain constant contact between the strop and the blade.

How does the amount of draw of the Filly strop compare to latigo? More draw, less?

 

[Xijukx]

+1 on the butter knife. I have one in the drawer that is WAY shinier from practicing on it!
I am a newb to the art of SR and I wouldn't even touch my strop with the straight until I had gotten the muscle memory worked into me. It didn't take long, but when I finally did take my razor to it I noticed it didn't feel right. Turns out the butter knife was heavier!
I guess it just felt "right" to add a tad of pressure, as someone said just the weight of my forearm maybe. Strop is taught, but not white knuckle taught. Not very fast with it yet, like I said I'm a newb but it just feels right.
Haven't rolled an edge yet. I ordered a loupe and hope that will help in assessing the effects of stropping and honing.

 

[rbscebu]

I use a relatively short leather strop with about 300mm (12") of travel. When stropping my blades, I hold the strop reasonable taught and use very light pressure, as in about blade weight only, such that I can see almost no deflection in the strop while stropping.

What I notice is that there is a barely perceivable change in the feel and sound of the draw after about 30 to 40 laps. Once this occurres, the blade gets about another 20 laps before being used.

I have one blade that is wickedly harder than the others and that blade may lake a little longer for the feel/sound change to occur.

Mind you, all my SR's get about 50 laps on a 0.1um diamond pasted balsa strop after each shave.

 

[camoloc]

can you see a rolled edge with a loupe????

camo

 

[1Speedster]

can you see a rolled edge with a loupe????

camo

Yes, you can. Make sure to have your light source reflecting off of the apex of the bevel and look for glints of light which should indicate defects like chips or a rolled edge. A perfect apex will not reflect the light source.

 

[camoloc]

Yes, you can. Make sure to have your light source reflecting off of the apex of the bevel and look for glints of light which should indicate defects like chips or a rolled edge. A perfect apex will not reflect the light source.

I'm new to using loupes......

would this view be clear enough to see if I had one? (this is a sharp blade)

pic was taken using loupe and phone cam.

camo

 

[1Speedster]

Well, that’s clear enough but focuses on one of the bevels rather than the peak or apex of both bevels which forms the working edge. That edge should be ‘invisible’ and not reflect light, so you need a way to picture that tip of the ‘V’.

I’m accustomed to performing this check with a BelOMO 10x triplet not a USB loupe, so I’m not sure how you would prop up the blade such that your light source reflects more off of the apex rather than the sides of the bevel. With a hand held loupe, it’s rather easy to get the light reflecting at something like a 45 degree angle to the apex.

 

[Slash McCoy]

If the strop is pulled reasonably tight, and the spine never comes up off the strop, and the razor is pressed very lightly against the leather, and the shoulder of the razor never comes up on the strop, and at least a modest x stroke is used, it is pretty much a cinch that you are not rolling the edge on the strop.

A study was done years ago on stropping lap count. By 60 laps, only a very small minority of shavers can detect any improvement with still more laps. This fell to virtually zero beyond 60 laps. 50 laps is a very common lap count when stropping on a normal hanging leather strop. Anything over 40 is good.

The amount of feedback depends as much on the strop itself as on the man stropping and the razor being stropped. One often hears talk of very fast strops or strops with a heavy draw or medium draw or whatever. In the final analysis they all do pretty much the same job, just feel different. As long as the leather is not wrinkled or cracked, and is reasonably level and supple, and is not cupped, it's good to go. If it feels like it is pulling back on the razor, or it feels like there is no real contact or it is just sliding down the strop, all the same, more or less. An extremely lightly drawing strop might give better results with an extra dozen swats or it might not. Extra laps won't hurt anything, so feel free to waste your time if you are so inclined, by going a round hundred laps. Whatever makes you feel good. The fact is, I can go a dozen laps with any razor I have honed, on any strop that I own, and the shave is definitely the shave of a stropped razor. A couple of my strops are pretty sticky, a couple are like flexible glass with teflon coating. They all work. The only difference is how it feels to strop on them. So how much feedback I get from the strop is nothing but a matter of sensation. Don't let it bother you if your razor doesn't feel like it is "getting stropped" on the strop.