How many times are you supposed to do these passes on a hone?
- Thread starter IronSaint
- Start date
Sharp happens at ~ the 1k level. I don't believe you can over hone with a 1k. You may waste steel, but not over hone. If the edge is not sharp at 1k, you need more work at that level. The rest is refining the edge. 1k to 8k is a huge jump.
I am a broken record. Pass the edge lightly over a piece of glass. Test the edge on a tomato lightly trying to cut the skin. It will not cut after the glass. Now hone on you 1k with circles and x-stokes until it does cut the tomato at every point on the edge. The bevel is now set. Now hone on your 8k. It will take over an hour or more because 1-8 is a huge jump and you need to temove the 1k scratches. Then it will shave. You can fill the gap from 1-8 and above 8 with lapping film for cheap.
- Thread starter
- #8
Not to be a raging jerk, but that says
And yet doesn't explain how to do it.
It's a shopping list, really.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
It isn't like baking a cake, 6 of this, 3 of that, mix and bake at 375 for 18 minutes. That's why all you'll ever find amounts to a list.
You have to test for a bevel set.
You will more than likely need a 5k-ish stone in between, but film would be fine.
The easiest way would be to hook up with someone near you if that's possible, having a mentor would save you a lot of time. Watch some videos by Doc226 or Lynn (SRP). If you're used to knives, you need about 1/10 the pressure for a straight.
Good luck! Steve
You have to test for a bevel set.
You will more than likely need a 5k-ish stone in between, but film would be fine.
The easiest way would be to hook up with someone near you if that's possible, having a mentor would save you a lot of time. Watch some videos by Doc226 or Lynn (SRP). If you're used to knives, you need about 1/10 the pressure for a straight.
Good luck! Steve
With the 1k hone flat, spine and edge on the hone, do a 20 passes (there and back) in as many sets as you need, until the edge can pass one of the tests, thumbnail, arm hair or tomato, once it passes move onto a higher grit.
Is this a hollow or wedge? What size? Warped? Frown, smile, straight? Heel in the way?
I feel your pain. I too was looking for a secret formula. I read some where to do 60 laps on each stone. Seemed easy enough. Well after all of that I ended up with a razor that wouldn't cut anything 
To get an idea you could try the burr method. Just lap one side of the blade and keep count. Keep doing this until you feel a burr all the way across the blade. Now flip the blade over and do the exact same number on the other side. Then do like 20 (just making up a number) on both side (flipping the blade on each of the lap) to even things out. Now you can do the tomato test or see if it will shave arm hair. Now proceed through your stones to remove the previous scratches.
This my not be the best but what it did for me was the following:
1. Gave me something to shoot for. Starting out you feel like you are chasing the wind.
2. It taught me that it can take a long time to set the bevel. It showed me that it can take 45 minutes to set the bevel and not the 5 minutes that I was doing.
3. This gave me a shavable edge. Now I know what it feels like.
Now I'm an idiot and have much to learn, so someone here will probably shoot all this down but it got me started. Good luck!
To get an idea you could try the burr method. Just lap one side of the blade and keep count. Keep doing this until you feel a burr all the way across the blade. Now flip the blade over and do the exact same number on the other side. Then do like 20 (just making up a number) on both side (flipping the blade on each of the lap) to even things out. Now you can do the tomato test or see if it will shave arm hair. Now proceed through your stones to remove the previous scratches.
This my not be the best but what it did for me was the following:
1. Gave me something to shoot for. Starting out you feel like you are chasing the wind.
2. It taught me that it can take a long time to set the bevel. It showed me that it can take 45 minutes to set the bevel and not the 5 minutes that I was doing.
3. This gave me a shavable edge. Now I know what it feels like.
Now I'm an idiot and have much to learn, so someone here will probably shoot all this down but it got me started. Good luck!
Forget counting laps-completely useless.
Stay on your bevel setter until the bevel is set, that may be 20 or 2000, whatever it take, absolutely no point in moving to a finer grit stone until this step is accomplished.
Test your bevel by whatever method you want, it just needs to be set, not almost there, SET. I like using a cherry tomato and making sure the edge cuts easily along every mm of the edge.
If you have a doubt if the bevel is set it is NOT
After this is done stay on the next finer stone until the previous stones scratches are gone, change the angle of the blade on the stone if you need to in order to see the scratches-repeat until you reach your finest stone, strop and shave.
Stay on your bevel setter until the bevel is set, that may be 20 or 2000, whatever it take, absolutely no point in moving to a finer grit stone until this step is accomplished.
Test your bevel by whatever method you want, it just needs to be set, not almost there, SET. I like using a cherry tomato and making sure the edge cuts easily along every mm of the edge.
If you have a doubt if the bevel is set it is NOT
After this is done stay on the next finer stone until the previous stones scratches are gone, change the angle of the blade on the stone if you need to in order to see the scratches-repeat until you reach your finest stone, strop and shave.
- Thread starter
- #13
There is a group that meets every 2-3 months in N.C. Check post 33 here http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/428964-Triad-area-North-Carolina-meet-up/page2 I don't know how far that is, but it would be worth the trip in any case.
First hone one one side, as proposed around 20times, you can also try more. Now you should feel a burr on the other side of the bevel where you honed. Move your finger from the shoulder towards the edge and try if you can feel the Burr.....
No Burr there ? Then keep on doing additional 20 laps or more....
If you feel a Burr move to the other side and proceed with the same amount of laps then before.
Now the razor should cut armhair....then proceed with a progression to finish.
If you dont get the razor cut hair after the 1k stone youre not ready and youll have to work longer on the stone!
No Burr there ? Then keep on doing additional 20 laps or more....
If you feel a Burr move to the other side and proceed with the same amount of laps then before.
Now the razor should cut armhair....then proceed with a progression to finish.
If you dont get the razor cut hair after the 1k stone youre not ready and youll have to work longer on the stone!
BROKEN RECORD WARNING:
You will spend 92% of your honing on setting the bevel (but 96% of your disposable income on finishing stones...oh the irony). This is where every new honer rushes. Without the bevel, there is no edge. Say that and repeat. As Doc said above, there's simply no way to know how long it will take to set. I've spent 7 or 8 hours on some very old sheffield wedges and less than 10 minutes on a Japanese hollow ground. Sometimes there is another problem with the blade which makes bevel setting difficult. This is particularly true of the old sheffields.
I counted laps in the beginning, but it just never worked for me. Now, it's all about the sensory and visual feedback. If you need to count though, then pick a number and do sets of that number. For instance, 20 on one side, then 20 on the other. Maybe it's 40 on one side and 40 on the other when you start and then smaller sets as you get closer.
If counting helps, then do it. If it doesn't, then screw it. (Plato)
Keep honing on the bevel setter until the entire length of the blade seems to be undercutting the water/slurry and the feedback should be smoother and more uniform along the entire length of the blade. Test it on a cherry tomato. With very little pressure (virtually none), it should cut the skin of the tomato easily. Test each part of the blade. Once you've reached this stage, you now have an edge. You could shave with it if you wanted. It wouldn't be pleasant, but you could. The rest is, as they say, commentary. Taking a serviceable bevel and turning it into a pleasurable edge.
You will spend 92% of your honing on setting the bevel (but 96% of your disposable income on finishing stones...oh the irony). This is where every new honer rushes. Without the bevel, there is no edge. Say that and repeat. As Doc said above, there's simply no way to know how long it will take to set. I've spent 7 or 8 hours on some very old sheffield wedges and less than 10 minutes on a Japanese hollow ground. Sometimes there is another problem with the blade which makes bevel setting difficult. This is particularly true of the old sheffields.
I counted laps in the beginning, but it just never worked for me. Now, it's all about the sensory and visual feedback. If you need to count though, then pick a number and do sets of that number. For instance, 20 on one side, then 20 on the other. Maybe it's 40 on one side and 40 on the other when you start and then smaller sets as you get closer.
If counting helps, then do it. If it doesn't, then screw it. (Plato)
Keep honing on the bevel setter until the entire length of the blade seems to be undercutting the water/slurry and the feedback should be smoother and more uniform along the entire length of the blade. Test it on a cherry tomato. With very little pressure (virtually none), it should cut the skin of the tomato easily. Test each part of the blade. Once you've reached this stage, you now have an edge. You could shave with it if you wanted. It wouldn't be pleasant, but you could. The rest is, as they say, commentary. Taking a serviceable bevel and turning it into a pleasurable edge.
This gave me a good laugh this morning!
You might as well get in your favorite seat, have a cold drink, sit back and relax because you are going to be here for quite a while. Learning to set a proper bevel and producing a shaveable edge that is. You will be learning, experimenting and asking questions for months. I've only been at it for about 7 months and still am a long way away but I am closer than I was. It is said to expect a year before really getting from start to edges that you are beginning to like in a semi-consistent manner. I have been meeting Steve in Knoxville TN (about 40 min away) for would say about 2 months now,picking his brain, and I would say he has helped cut my learning curve down a couple to few years. Not to mention he has either directed my honing "steps", helped diagnose issues, fixed issues, introduced me to different methods and helped confirm to me when I was doing something right. But let's not mention aggravating any hidden acquisition disorders. So I definitely recommend looking through the member's list and search for people that are near by or even start a "experience honer near me?" thread.
Now on the burr method mentioned above, this is only my one opinion out of many, I particularly don't like, though it may work for them, for me it always caused problems. But the method can be a good reference point for beginners, especially those coming out of knife honing. Me, as a beginner, it always developed into a foiled edge that would fold up during the shave and would require the bevel to be reset. To me this, though definitions vary, is a variation of overhoning. I have pressure issues when I hone, and one time honed for hours questioning if the bevel was set when it was set in probably one hour. This was confirmed by someone else with more experience than I. So for me, it is finding the happy mid point between not having the bevels meet and producing the burr, because for me with pressure problems is hard to remove once it starts.
If it gets frustrating take a step back and relax because honing should be relaxing. Enjoy the journey not just the destination.
Happy honing
Neil
Now on the burr method mentioned above, this is only my one opinion out of many, I particularly don't like, though it may work for them, for me it always caused problems. But the method can be a good reference point for beginners, especially those coming out of knife honing. Me, as a beginner, it always developed into a foiled edge that would fold up during the shave and would require the bevel to be reset. To me this, though definitions vary, is a variation of overhoning. I have pressure issues when I hone, and one time honed for hours questioning if the bevel was set when it was set in probably one hour. This was confirmed by someone else with more experience than I. So for me, it is finding the happy mid point between not having the bevels meet and producing the burr, because for me with pressure problems is hard to remove once it starts.
If it gets frustrating take a step back and relax because honing should be relaxing. Enjoy the journey not just the destination.
Happy honing
Neil
