How I use nano-grit compounds & my thought about them

[Kentos]

I know what you mean...I get some feather-like weepers myself sometimes.

I take the edge as far as I can prior to nano sprays...and I find stropping on linen to not help much when I'm below .1..and I apply enough for a nice even color.

 

[mvh]

So, I got some CBN (.5 & .125) today care of Ken (Thank you Ken the shipping was amazingly fast compared to my usual).

Bought myself a nice piece of balsa, made myself a nice balsa strop and had a go. First attempt, I touched up one of my Friodur's very lightly on my Coti. I was about HHT 2-3 off the stone already. Went to .5 CBN then to 0.125 CBN then leather. The shave? Wow very close, ultra sharp. I'm finding my skin a bit more tender than normal after about 30 mins post shave however. I think I can attribute this to a few things. I think I got a bit over aggressive on the stropping (I tend to do this) I think the other was I did not adjust my pressure enough while shaving to compensate for the sharpness of the razor my skin was about to touch.

A few questions to those of you who've been experimenting with the CBN:


- How many spritz do you spray on the balsa ?
- How many strokes are you doing on each stage ?
- How far are you bringing the edge prior to stropping on the CBN? (To the max of your ability?)
- What is your post CBN stages? (Linen/Leather etc...)

Thanks all and I see a lot of potential with this stuff!

I use a 1*6 balsa blank. 2 spritzes is plenty.
I do 20 on 0.5µ, 20 on 0.25 (diamond spray) and 60 on 0.125 CBN. you really can go all the way on 0.125. It's not going to cause an "overcooked" edge
I max them out. Up to 30k if I feel like it.
I strop ONLY on leather. And not much. 20 laps will do.

Welcome to the atom splitting club!

 

[honed]

I use a 1*6 balsa blank. 2 spritzes is plenty.
I do 20 on 0.5µ, 20 on 0.25 (diamond spray) and 60 on 0.125 CBN. you really can go all the way on 0.125. It's not going to cause an "overcooked" edge
I max them out. Up to 30k if I feel like it.
I strop ONLY on leather. And not much. 20 laps will do.

Welcome to the atom splitting club!

Not very surprisingly we do it pretty much the same way.
Might have something to do with having the same teacher

I've tried it in pretty much every way imaginable, but I always come back to do a routine very much like the one described above.
Taking in to consideration blade-grind, previous progression & feel of the day of course..

I've also found that for the ultimate edge sharpness-wise you really need a synthetic progression all the way up as far as possible.
That said, the results you are getting from a coticule is very similar to the ones I've had & many other.
And it shouldn't just be a chase of the ultimate sharpness, it's a chase for the most perfected edge to shave with
I certainly feel that CBN and/or the finest diamond compounds plays a very good part in achieving that!
I'm yet to come across some type of finish that they don't enhance.

 

[honed]

I've been doing some more honing finishing on the 0.025µ diamond from Ken(640.000 grits )

Two razors in decent condition, nothing spectacular.
A 1890's Swedish C.V Heljestrand frameback.
Sure it's an absolutely friggin' superb razor, once dubbed "the greatest razor ever made" by a big time US collector, but still..

The other one is a no name Solingen razor, made from Sheffield Silver Steel.
Scales & tang celebrate some dude that got the Nobel Prize in literature in the 1910's.
What it has going for itself is a very thin hollow grind, as in very thin. Excellent steel, of the typical softer Sheffield variety.

Accompanied by a stained piece of Kangaroo leather..
So, what does all this leads up to?

THE SHARPEST RAZORS IN EXISTENCE!
(the honer humbly whispered..)

I'm not even gonna try & describe the shave in words. I'm on sensory overload here..
That extra hollow ground blade with that edge being so sharp & yet so comfy & shaving so close.
That thick Swede with the over-the-top hard steel of the highest quality imaginable hone on the finest compounds imaginable...

Only a good Mad Scientist Belly Laugh can describe it.
And perhaps some good old girly dancing...

Finish?
Ken's 0.25µ poly diamond/balsa > 0.1µ CBN/balsa > 0.050µ poly diamond/balsa > 0.025µ poly diamond on kangaroo leather.

I actually did three razors this way, another one just like the Heljestrand that I initially had honed the same way, but using mono all the way from 0.25µ to 0.025µ
But after my test shaves with the two beasts in the pics, I redid it & the sharpness went up, with maybe the tiniest tad loss in comfort.
But overall worth it!

That second Heljestrand is now heading to Norway for a second opinion.
I just hope it makes it there.
The mushroom-clouds constantly coming of the edge might make it hard to get thru customs...

Do I have a theory?

Of course

What I know for a fact is that the 0.25µ mono HA makes for a noticeably more comfortable edge then poly diamond. But sharpness-wise as in cutting performance, the poly clearly wins.
But, the poly is harder to "tame" with the 0.125/0.1µ CBN, hence I have mainly used 0.25µ HA mono.

Also, the 0.050/0.025µ is as their micron sizes implies, very small.
Maybe so small that in order to do some cutting they need to be as aggressive as possible, hence the poly is better.

My guess to what happened is that the 0.25µ poly added supreme sharpness (did at least 50 laps on each, something that would have absolutely killed my face if I had shaved straight off it)
Then another 50 laps on CBN & about 25 on the following nano-grit diamonds.

The Kangaroo leather feels great for these compounds.
It is very hard, but yet supple.
And the grain is almost non-existent. Because Roo's don't sweat they don't have any pores.


Foundation on all razors laid with Shapton 1.5K > Shapton Pro 5K > Shapton Pro 8K > Naniwa SS 10K > Shapton Pro 30K slurry on balsa > HA 0.50µ mono diamond on hard leather bench strop.

Something else that would be interesting that some other folks at B&B is experimenting with currently is a more complete CBN only progression, like 0.75µ and/or 0.5µ. Might just give an even smoother final edge!

16+ hours since my shave & still not the faintest hint of stubble

 

[Skyrider55]

Impressive, interesting, incisive, instructive, investigation into insane levels of microscopic metallurgy!!! Thanks.

Please stop NOW!
If you keep going we may never have to shave again. v

 

[Blix]

Amazing stuff Jens! If that Norwegian is Zephyr/Rune, which lives just down the road from me, I might go check it out!

So far with my CBN, I think I need to try it with more strokes, like 50+ for the 0.5/0.25/0.125 combo.

 

[honed]

Impressive, interesting, incisive, instructive, investigation into insane levels of microscopic metallurgy!!! Thanks.

Please stop NOW!
If you keep going we may never have to shave again. v

You know, we had a theoretical talk about just where the end as in the Final Edge is a while back on the phone a bunch of us sharp-junkies.
I think we are closing in on the possible levels of refinement, with today finest steels for sharpening anyway, who still happens to be low-alloy, simple high carbon steels, just like the stuff used in 99.9% of all straights.

The single carbides in the steel is little smaller then 0.01µ IIRC.
So sharper then that is pretty hard to go...

BUT, I know Ken had a long chat with one of the most knowledgeable fellas around when it comes to blade steels
(no joke, but I don't want to mention the guys name, since he uttered this in a private conversation)
& he was very sure that the hardest particles, like diamonds & CBN cuts through the carbides.
And that opens up even more possibilities!

All we need now is to find the Final Edge safely, without crossing it, because he who do cross the line of the Final Edge, will probably never be able to tell just how he did it, because he will have been turned to dust from the huge explosion he caused by accidentally splitting atoms

 

[honed]

Amazing stuff Jens! If that Norwegian is Zephyr/Rune, which lives just down the road from me, I might go check it out!

So far with my CBN, I think I need to try it with more strokes, like 50+ for the 0.5/0.25/0.125 combo.

If I were you I'd wait & see if there is any bangs or strange fluorescent lights coming out of Runes house before entering.

As for the CBN, don't be afraid to go nuts with the laps. It just keeps cutting, making the edge better & better.
I have never seen any harm being done by 0.125 CBN even at +100 laps.
If something is wrong, then it's problems that has stuck from lower grits.

 

[Blix]

If I were you I'd wait & see if there is any bangs or strange fluorescent lights coming out of Runes house before entering.

As for the CBN, don't be afraid to go nuts with the laps. It just keeps cutting, making the edge better & better.
I have never seen any harm being done by 0.125 CBN even at +100 laps.
If something is wrong, then it's problems that has stuck from lower grits.

Happy to report that 60 laps 0.5, 60 laps 0.25 and 100 laps 0.125 CBN isn't even remotely harsh! And I got into almost "Falling Hair Test" sharpness.

 

[MilkyLee]

A few questions if you don't mind. Can these results be achieved if only coming of a Coti or Thuri, or do you need to have a 30K hone? Could you substitute .75 cbn for a higher grit hone? Also, I have .5 CrOx, could you use that instead of the .5 diamond (I'm a cheapie and want to use what I have)? Thanks

 

[honed]

A few questions if you don't mind. Can these results be achieved if only coming of a Coti or Thuri, or do you need to have a 30K hone? Could you substitute .75 cbn for a higher grit hone? Also, I have .5 CrOx, could you use that instead of the .5 diamond (I'm a cheapie and want to use what I have)? Thanks

The CBN 0.125µ seems to work very well in cooperation with any finisher really.
The results will differ of course.
It is a rather huge jump from a coticule finish to a 0.125µ finish.
However, the CBN will still enhance the edge (for my edge-tastes at least)
Same thing after a Thuri, but I've found an even better effect there, probably because the Thuri is a bit finer then the coti in general to begin with.

You can indeed substitute diamond for CrOx.
But again you will have different results.
CrOx & diamond are really each others opposites in how they cut.
A matter of taste & preference really.

There is no need for a 30K to get good results from CBN 0.125µ.

 

[mvh]

I go straight to 0.125 CBN after my natural finishers. I tried 0.25 diamond spray, but it was too harsh for me. the 0.125 CBN polishes the scratches just enough to make it smooth.

I'm going for a glorified 0.125µ edge, not a true 0.125 edge. If I were to finish on 30k, then 50 laps on 0.5µ, 0.25µ and then 0.125µ, the edge is too harsh for me. If I leave out the 0.25, it's smooth again, yet very sharp.

It works for both natural and synthetic progressions.

What I don't like to finish on is 0.5µ CBN or diamond. it's too harsh and gives me razor burn. If you do finish on 0.5 CBN or DS, do 20 laps on Crox afterwards. It will smooth the edge, while you get the speed of CBN first.

 

[Blix]

Got my best CBN edge so far today. Did my 8/8 Brian Brown on the Chosera 1k, 2-4-6-8-16k Shapton GS, the the 0.5(60 laps) and 0.25 CBN(60 laps) on balsa, but now with 0.125 CBN(80 laps) sprayed on the "diamond" side of an Ambrose strop. The best smooth/sharp balance so far, not really unlike a good Jnat edge actually.