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How do you know when you need sharpening versus stropping?

Please allow me to say that I'm very new here. I came this way from other ports on the internet that referred to Badger&Blade as the premier resource for wet shaving in general and specifically straight razors.

So I'm trying to transition from the typical multi blade cartridge and picked up a razor and strop. Tried to watch plenty of videos on how to, but I'm still learning and feel like I'm not getting the hang of it.

In fact, I wonder if I've ruined my edge with bad stropping.

When I try doing a hanging hair test, most of the time it doesn't catch and slides right off. Sometimes I'll get a lil slide, catch, and pop. I've convinced myself that my stropping is at fault due to learning technique and how much tension, pressure, and what all to use. Not to mention I have taken a couple of bits out of the strop.

So I'm looking for ways to tell if once I figure out the stropping motion will that get the edge back in condition, or how to know if it's too far gone and needs to be sent for a good grind.
 
Your razor likely needs to be honed. Depending on where you bought it, it was likely not really shave ready at purchase and nicking your strop certainly did not do it any good. The HHT works best for people who already know what to expect from a sharp razor with their particular hair and technique. If you post your general location you may have someone close who could help you out or at a minimum assess your razor. Good luck.
 
Welcome on!

Did your razor come professionally honed when you first received it? If so, by whom?

Yes, an edge can be ruined my poor stropping, but you could probably see that if you sight down your edge. Shave readiness is semi preference. Even a “dull” razor to some can still be super sharp. Putting a cut on your strop is not necessarily a sign of a bad edge, just that you need to slow down and practice your stropping.
 
The HHT works best for people who already know what to expect from a sharp razor with their particular hair and technique.

^^This is a great point. I'm not sure what to expect with any of this really, and that's something I'm trying to keep in mind.

It was 'shave ready' by /u/RocTraitor over on Reddit. I don't know him personally but he has a good reputation over there. Though I can't speak for the condition it's in after all my newbie handling.

Here's to slowing down. I kinda zoned out once and got a nice 'peel' on my strop. Clipped it off and a nail file smoothed it out. I know some learning curve is expected, but I'm still in that new user frustration.
 
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I’m learning also. I’m just over 30 shaves in and I still get some rough shaves, still can’t go ATG very well, still cleaning up with my DE. A benchmark identified around here says 100 SR shaves will find you with technique good enough and consistent enough to getting enjoyable results. Still a long way to go for me but I’m enjoying the process.

Haven’t had to send in my razor yet for a true touch up; I’ve been able to keep it going with leather stropping and a pasted balsa so far.
 
I'd say I'm not even a shave in. The ones I've tried just too much pulling and skipping that it was too painful to continue. I just pulled out the cartridge razor and put the SR away hoping more practice will help later.
 

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Stjynnkii membörd dummpsjterd
There's a pretty substantial learning curve as there are so many facets to a straight razor shave, any one of which can throw off the end result.

I take a lot of heat for some of my counterintuitive opinions, but I think it's easier to learn by starting with a DE or SE for the first passes and finishing with a straight as it allows you to develop a feel for steel on skin more easily.

Take it slowly and have fun.
 
I'd say I'm not even a shave in. The ones I've tried just too much pulling and skipping that it was too painful to continue. I just pulled out the cartridge razor and put the SR away hoping more practice will help later.

Are you keeping a low angle? Where the edge is on your skin and the spine is only 1-2 spine lengths off of your face?
 
Here’s a couple of pics as a guide in terms of directing the strop deflection. I tend to add some torque towards the spine to keep the deflection where it’s needed. If your razor isn’t shave ready this won’t help but you’ll still need to understand how to strop effectively.
image.jpg
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Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Welcome to the Dark Side, Marcus!

First of all, what razor do you have, and where did you get it? Some good pics would be helpful, of the "show side" scales, blade etching, and tang stamping, particularly.

The important thing is to start out with a shave ready razor. The problem is, "shave ready" has become the new buzz word that even the most ignorant sellers use to describe their razors. The average seller on ebay for instance, does not even shave with a straight razor at all, and would not, COULD NOT, have the most remote clue as to what a shave ready edge is. On this forum, which is not moderated or controlled in any significant way by vendors, a so-so edge on a razor billed as shave ready by the vendor will likely result in a negative post. Vendors that post here or are frequently discussed here won't keep a good reputation for long if they ship products that don't measure up, and don't correct the few mistakes that sometimes slip out. If a longstanding member here says a vendor ships shave ready edges, they are shave ready. There are a couple of ebay vendors out there who are good, and our favorite vendors here are good. Some others, unknown to us, may be good. The majority are not. Most new razors are NOT shave ready. Some will sort of shave with the factory edge but only poorly and with great difficulty. Starting with a truly shave ready razor, whether new or vintage, is a necessary component in learning to shave with a real razor.

It sounds like your razor is not shave ready, to me. Stropping will not make it so. However, it is unlikely that proper stropping has made it dull. Was it sharp when you got it, before you ever stropped it? If you pull your strop reasonably tight and use reasonably light pressure on the razor and ALWAYS keep the spine of the razor on the strop, flipping the edge up and over to change directions, use a bit of an x stroke, don't let the shoulder ride up on the strop, and don't put anything on the leather, and you aren't hacking and slicing up your strop, it is extremely unlikely that your stropping is having any negative impact on the edge. If you are doing it just like in most of the videos, you are doing it okay.

There is a wiki or a list somewhere on this board of guys who take in honing. Some charge for it. Some enjoy doing it for free, you just pay postage both ways. Where are you located? Maybe someone will chime in, near you, and offer to hone it for you. You could also buy another razor, shave ready, from a trusted vendor. It is good to have more than one razor. That way when one is dull and must be sent out, or you decide to learn to hone it yourself, you have another razor to shave with in the meanwhile.

I don't think your shave technique is the problem. It may be A problem but it is not THE problem. I think your razor is dull. But when you do get a sharp razor in your hand, it is important to remember a few key points.

1. map your face. Your first several shaves should be more or less WTG, or With The Grain. Your whiskers grow in different directions on different parts of your face and neck. You want to go with the flow, so to speak, or at least as nearly so as you can manage.

2. Good prep is essential. The whiskers need to be softened, and the skin protected, by a very slick lather that does not quickly dry out. Stuff sprayed out of a can is not what you want. Many of the new crop of shave creams in a tube that you find in the drugstores these days are also rather poor. VDH Deluxe (green box) is a pretty decent shave soap. You can pay 10x more and the only thing you get is a lingering scent and a fancy brand name. There are good creams that are not expensive, too. Godrej Rich Lather (red tube, find it at your local Indian or Middle Eastern shop) is hands down the best cream I have ever used, less than a buck a tube overseas, probably $3 to $5 in the U.S.. Proraso has a big almost cult like following. No need to pay big bucks for soap or cream. With either one you need a brush. I recommend a badger brush, preferably "Best", "Finest" or "Silvertip" grade, of decent size, at least 26mm. This can be expensive, or it can be pretty cheap. www.whippeddog.com is a good place to get such a brush for a very reasonable price. Virginia Sheng is one of the few Chinese brush makers with a good product and good reputation, and those are pretty cheap. You could start with a boar but it takes a while to break in, and even then it won't hold as much water or product as a badger, and you need a very wet lather for straight shaving.

Immediately after shower is a great time to shave. The whiskers and skin are well hydrated. Don't dry your face. Lather up, strop your razor, relather if necessary, shave.

3. Don't try to get a perfect shave in a single pass. Do an all over pass and don't try to get every single whisker planed off below skin level. The first pass is beard REDUCTION, not beard elimination. One or two subsequent passes will get closer and cleaner. So shave, relather, shave again, both times WTG for your first dozen shaves or so.

4. Low shave angle. Your regular ordinary usual standard shave angle is that which sets the gap between your spine and cheek at one spine thickness, with the edge on your face. Much more than that, and you are not shaving. You are scraping. If the razor is not sharp, it is not sharp. Don't try to make it shave by scraping with it. An extremely scary sharp razor might work better with an even tighter shave angle, maybe half a spine thickness, or nearly dragging on the skin.

5. Light pressure. Let the edge do the work.

6. Stretch the skin tightly. Use your fingers, make "shaving faces", whatever. You want the skin to be shaven to be tight and flat, to resist cuts and irritation. If you pull the skin up against the grain, you force the whiskers out of the follicles as far as they will go, and make them stand up proudly to be mowed down by the razor.

7. Avoid slicing strokes in the beginning. Adding some slicing motion is a good way to increase cutting power but it cuts skin as well as whiskers easier, so save it for after you have acquired some skill. Initially you want the razor's edge to be perpendicular to the direction of the stroke.

8. Begin the stroke with the razor not actually on the skin. Swoop in like a plane doing touch and go landings. Glide down the "runway" a bit then take off again. When you start a razor moving that is already on the skin, you increase the risk of a cut.

My favorite sharpness test is to sweep the razor over my forearm, 1/4" above the skin level. It should sever at least a couple of hair tips. That is what I consider a good edge. If it gets the majority of hairs it encounters and severs them with no perceptible pop or snap back, then it is crazy sharp and I have to do the happy dance. This is a rare standard of sharpness. If it must be swept at 1/8" to treetop it is meh and if it won't treetop at all even at 1/8" then it is not shave ready, in my book.

You could TRY to bring the edge up by stropping on a pasted balsa strop. Actually, a few of them, each loaded with a different grade of diamond paste. If it was actually honed and not roughly ground, then a hundred to a few hundred laps on 1u (one micron) followed by a hundred or so on .5u, .25u, and .1u is capable of producing a good edge. I must caution you however, that as yet, you have not experienced a true shave ready edge and so have no standard to judge your results by. The sharpness tests all rely on a certain amount of subjectivity and also on hair thickness or texture. The shave test is what truly matters, but you are not skilled at shaving yet. So waiting until you have a month of shaves or so under your belt before trying to improve the edge of a razor is a very good idea, so you don't wonder if it is technique or the razor that is holding back your shave quality. Anyway, if the pasted balsa strop doesn't do the trick then I would suggest setting the bevel on sandpaper glued to a very flat polished stone tile or a plate of heavy glass or 3/4" acrylic using the burr method, then running a progression of lapping film to 1u, then post finish on the balsa, skipping the 1u.

Setting the bevel must be done correctly, or the edge is doomed to failure. No amount of polish will correct a poorly set bevel. Honing, whether on film or on rocks, must be done correctly, of course. Film is much cheaper to get started and much easier to get good results early in the game. Preparing and using a pasted balsa strop is nowhere near as simple as you might think, and must be done properly to get the kind of stunning results it is capable of giving. The above linked threads will tell you how to do it in detail, and if you follow directions well, you will get crazy good results at least by your second or third attempt, if not your first.

Have a look at the BST forum for deals on vintage razors. Keep watching, cause the good deals go quick. Check out www.whippeddog.com too. Larry seems to be out of his famous sight unseen razors but he might have something else that will catch your eye. Jarrod at www.thesuperiorshave.com is a good vendor I have dealt with. He usually has some Bismarcks in stock, my hands down favorite new production razor apart from the Gold Dollars that I modify. I suggest generally avoiding the Dovo "Best Quality" or other Dovo entry level models but if Jarrod has honed it and passed it, then it will do the job. Keep an eye out for a shave ready Gold Dollar from a trusted vendor or member. Some are just honed, some might be slightly or heavily modified, but in most cases you are getting a fair to excellent razor for a good price.

If you want to get your hand in the game like today, not next week, and you are kind of a risk taker, thrill seeker type, go to Sallys Beauty Supply. Be prepared to be given a cold shoulder and made to feel MOST unwelcome. It is part of the Sallys culture that is only slowly starting to change in only some stores. Anyway, get a pair of "Magic Razor" brand shavettes. A shavette is sort of like a straight razor except it uses disposable blades. Some use the long "hair shaper" type blades like the Weck Sextoblade razors use. Some use half of a DE blade snapped in two, and this is the type I recommend. Sallys also has Personna brand blades for both types. They usually have both types of shavettes, too. They are pretty cheap, and you should buy two so that when you snap a blade in half, you have somewhere to put each half. While there, get a big bottle of Clubman aftershave if you are about that. The shavette is as we say less forgiving than a straight and you will probably take a few cuts learning to use it. The secret is VERY wet and slick lather, stretching the skin VERY tight, and using a VERY low shave angle, almost dragging the spine on the face, and VERY light pressure. Like a regular straight, but with more VERYs in there. Be sure the blade is mounted properly and securely. There are little lugs that index the blade. Anyway this combination will get you used to the motions and in just a couple of attempts will give you pretty darn good shaves. It is a harsh teacher and you will quickly learn the lessons it has to offer you, or pay in blood for your failure and ignorance. When you can get good shaves with the shavette, you only need a bit of adjustment to "downshift" to a regular straight.

Finally, one man's shave ready might be another man's dull, or another man's "harsh" or too sharp. I will cheerfully admit that a razor I condemn as dull can often still shave if I just try, using all the tricks I have learned for shaving with dull-to-me razors. By that same token, different vendors can have varying standards of shave readiness. it's a YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary) thing.
 
Then I suppose what you suspect may be true, that your edge needs to be rehoned. Generally, when you receive a proper “shave ready” razor, you do not strop is before it’s first shave. This way you can feel what a proper edge is like.

Then after the shave you do your stropping - holding the strop firmly by the end (not necessarily death grip status), with nearly no slack, very lightly (nearly no pressure) stropping the blade back and forth a minimum of 20 passes after and before each shave (back and forth one time is one pass).

When laying the razor to the strop, spine contacts first, then lay the edge down. If taking the razor off the strop, edge comes up first, then spine.

The strop will bow some as you make your passes, but the bowing shouldn’t be significant.
 
The strop will bow some as you make your passes, but the bowing shouldn’t be significant.
Yes it will deflect. It’s a matter of directing this around the spine rather than the bevel IMHO. To me this is where the skill aspect of stropping comes in.
 
If the bevel is clean and clear straight across, I will just use a strop. If the bevel has spots or stains in it, then I'll do a touch up with a 12k hone, or a lower grit if it's really a mess.
 
Welcome to the Dark Side, Marcus!
Thanks, it's a nice place so far.

First of all, what razor do you have, and where did you get it? Some good pics would be helpful, of the "show side" scales, blade etching, and tang stamping, particularly.

I have something from Imperial Razor Co, purchased from /u/RocTraitor over at Reddit. He sells over there and had a good reputation where I was checking things out so I bought into a sight unseen razor/strop combo from him.
[WTS] RocTraitor's Regular Listing VI • r/Shave_Bazaar

They're promoted as being honed and shave ready, but as said before in the thread, I think my poor handling would have mauled any edge on them. I can't see any visible dings, chips, or misalignment, but I'm not sure I'd know it if I saw it.

Pics and sorry for bad lighting:
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1. map your face.
Working on that, I've heard it can help, and I seem to go in some crazy directions.

2. Good prep is essential.
Post shower is my best time. I have a brush I got a while ago that has some e logo on it, (not sure of the brand) here's pic, plus some lather since I had some in my cup still:
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I.. ahem.. am working through some Art of Shaving creme from the last time the store in the mall had a sale. Certainly more pricey than Proraso , but man, I love the scents. I'll keep an eye out for some of those mentions though.

3. Don't try to get a perfect shave in a single pass.
I'll be happy just not to bleed on the damn thing. But yeah, reasonable expectations. I know there's a learning curve here.

4. Low shave angle.
The slide vs scrape is new to me. I suspect I may be too high up based on your description. Can you go to low?

5. Light pressure.
Let the blade do the work. With you on that.

6. Stretch the skin tightly
I'm going to need to become a contortionist for some of this apparently. How do you stretch when your face is all slicked up and now your fingers are too from touching your face?

7. Avoid slicing strokes in the beginning.
Right. We don't need to give the hungry blade anymore skin. It's had plenty.

8. Begin the stroke with the razor not actually on the skin.
That's new to me, I had never heard that before so that's going to take some wrapping my head around. Not to mention practice. Feels like if I try that I'll be taking a layer of skin off.

My favorite sharpness test is to sweep the razor over my forearm, 1/4" above the skin level. It should sever at least a couple of hair tips. That is what I consider a good edge. If it gets the majority of hairs it encounters and severs them with no perceptible pop or snap back, then it is crazy sharp and I have to do the happy dance. This is a rare standard of sharpness. If it must be swept at 1/8" to treetop it is meh and if it won't treetop at all even at 1/8" then it is not shave ready, in my book.

I tried that, and I might catch one or two hairs, but doesn't look like anything pops off. A good description of a test that's easy to grasp though.

It is a harsh teacher and you will quickly learn the lessons it has to offer you, or pay in blood for your failure and ignorance

You weren't kidding about dark side. And here I was under the impressions that shavettes were the more forgiving between the two. Like an intro to straight razors.

As for all the honing info, it's great for background, but I think I'm leaving that to the professionals at the moment. That's a lot to take in.

Here’s a couple of pics as a guide in terms of directing the strop deflection. I tend to add some torque towards the spine to keep the deflation where it’s needed.

Those pics are incredibly helpful. I thought the focus was on the blade edge rather than spine, so I was keeping my focus there, much like your BAD pic. I shall try to keep my focus on the spine. I have noticed if I start to lift the spine I get a higher pitched scrape sound from the stop to let me know. I thought at first that was a desirable sound, but I think I know better now.
 
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Your lather looks too watery, hard to tell. May need more product in there. It needs to be slick, but not soupy.

Skin stretching occurs, at first, from outside the save areas, then as you make your strokes, you can move around as needed. Rub a little alum on your fingers if you need more grip.

And no, can't go too low. :001_smile
 
Get the angle low, stretch the skin from above the soapy area and just see if you can get a close shave on your cheeks. If you can do that, the blade is sharp enough. If you can't, and your angle is low, then you may have sharpness issues.

Stick with just using the straight to shave your cheeks until you can do that well.

You'll just carve up your face otherwise. :)
 
Shine a torch directly down onto the edge. If you see bright spots shining back, the edge needs honing. Not my tip, I got it off youtube, but it works for me. If you see nothing reflecting back, the edge is good.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
I have something from Imperial Razor Co, purchased from /u/RocTraitor over at Reddit. He sells over there and had a good reputation where I was checking things out so I bought into a sight unseen razor/strop combo from him.
[WTS] RocTraitor's Regular Listing VI • r/Shave_Bazaar
The razor itself should be fine. Might just need an edge refresh.


Post shower is my best time. I have a brush I got a while ago that has some e logo on it, (not sure of the brand) here's pic, plus some lather since I had some in my cup still:
proxy.php
Nice wet lather. POSSIBLY a bit too lean, but good for priming your face. Keep trying it like that. Maybe add a matchhead of cream for the main lather. Looks like a vintage boar brush or around 20mm but can't really tell with it up to its neck in lather. A boar will do, but a decent badger of respectable size will impress you. Where a boar really shines is lathering harder soaps, or DE shaving with a single pass.


I.. ahem.. am working through some Art of Shaving creme from the last time the store in the mall had a sale. Certainly more pricey than Proraso , but man, I love the scents. I'll keep an eye out for some of those mentions though.
Perfume doesnt shave. it just smells good. Dont be overly influenced by the scent.


I'm going to need to become a contortionist for some of this apparently. How do you stretch when your face is all slicked up and now your fingers are too from touching your face?
Try wrapping the fingertips in a washcloth for traction. The alum trrick works but the washcloth trick is maybe a little better.


That's new to me, I had never heard that before so that's going to take some wrapping my head around. Not to mention practice. Feels like if I try that I'll be taking a layer of skin off.
Try it with your now presumably dull-ish razor. Lay it against the face. Elevate your spine one spine thickness. Hold that angle, and lift the razor just off the face. Back it up and try a touch n go. Practice makes perfect.


I tried that, and I might catch one or two hairs, but doesn't look like anything pops off. A good description of a test that's easy to grasp though.
Sounds like it is almost there. Any competent honer can hit a finisher with it and have it shaving pretty good, I imagine.


You weren't kidding about dark side. And here I was under the impressions that shavettes were the more forgiving between the two. Like an intro to straight razors.
For many shavers, it is indeed the gateway drug to straights. They are cheap, require zero maintenance, and there is no question of blade sharpness. They are just a bit touchy, not very solid, eager to grab and cut unwary skin, and the blade length can be an issue. Pros and cons. But practical for starting with if you don't have a very sharp straight available, or a strop, or budget big enough to handle buying a decent razor and strop. Good for traveling, too, because strops are easy to damage in your baggage. And if you lose or damage a cheap shavette you will shed few tears over what it cost. The long blade shavette has a few advantages vs above, but the blades are not as easy to come by as DE blades and cost a bit more. It is a little more like a real straight, though. The Weck Sextoblade is a very good example of a long blade shavette, as are some of the nice Japanese razors.
 
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