How do you feel about the death of cursive handwriting?

[The Knize]

Absolutely.

I cannot do it myself--I wish I could--but I think "kids" today take notes on laptops or similar.

I understand the concept that one can tap a keyboard key one heck of a lot faster than one can form a letter by hand no matter the chosen style of writing.

Actually, say 15 years ago, I would have said that one of the skills that is not taught in the schools but should be is fast note taking systems. Not true shorthand, but systems that use among other things certain abbreviations and techniques that, when mastered, immensely speed up and improve notetaking. Such a thing would have truly improved my own academic experience and probably performance. But that is something altogether different from trying to get elementary school children to perfect a Palmer "hand." Again, I submit that there are a lot more legible and faster ways to handwrite than the cursive traditionally taught in elementary school. Moreover, virtually everyone who writes much in "longhand" naturally and nearly inevitably uses a combination of what we think of as cursive and what we think of as "printed" letters.

I wonder if there are fast notetaking techniques for keyboards, too.

 

[oc_in_fw]

<I don't see it as learning math/science OR writing/literature.>

If this was responsive to me, I pretty much agree. However, I think American education is in a place where goals have to be prioritized. I hate to say it, frankly, but I think less essential skills such as cursive handwriting and, say, dancing, are naturally going to be de-emphasized in favor of more essential skills, and we are not doing a great job across the board on the more essential skills. I frankly think public education needs to become less academic, less liberal arts, and more directed to training folks in the skills of living and being in the work place. How we let kids graduate from high school without being able to balance a checkbook or understand a credit-card statement is beyond me. And I do think a high school graduate should be able to compose an understandable sentence.

As fulfilling as it is for the individual human being, I do not think we need to try to have every student familiar with classic literature. I think advanced studies need to be available to those with the talent and interest, for the good of society. But I do not think we try to train every child with the expectation that they will work on a moon shot.

I think it is a good question as to what students need to be well-rounded citizens. I do think we are a long way from providing that, whatever it is.

Sorry to go off topic. I guess as I think about this, as much as I like the idea of being able to handwrite a note, and as much time as I have spent in trying to improve my own handwriting, handwriting of any kind seems like a low priority to me for modern education!

That is what we have been doing for the last 30 years (along with financially hamstringing public schools) and we are seeing the results of it. We are creating people who are capable of doing certain jobs, but not creating people who are capable of thinking. The primary goal of education is about passing the test they all have to take every year. And with all this emphasis supposedly being placed on math and science, we lag pitifully behind the rest of the industrial nations. Arts and literature have just as much place in education as math and science, and they work different areas of the brain. Music is especially important- music is math with feeling.

 

[Traveling Man]

<I don't see it as learning math/science OR writing/literature.>

If this was responsive to me, I pretty much agree. However, I think American education is in a place where goals have to be prioritized. I hate to say it, frankly, but I think less essential skills such as cursive handwriting and, say, dancing, are naturally going to be de-emphasized in favor of more essential skills, and we are not doing a great job across the board on the more essential skills. I frankly think public education needs to become less academic, less liberal arts, and more directed to training folks in the skills of living and being in the work place. How we let kids graduate from high school without being able to balance a checkbook or understand a credit-card statement is beyond me. And I do think a high school graduate should be able to compose an understandable sentence.

As fulfilling as it is for the individual human being, I do not think we need to try to have every student familiar with classic literature. I think advanced studies need to be available to those with the talent and interest, for the good of society. But I do not think we try to train every child with the expectation that they will work on a moon shot.

I think it is a good question as to what students need to be well-rounded citizens. I do think we are a long way from providing that, whatever it is.

Sorry to go off topic. I guess as I think about this, as much as I like the idea of being able to handwrite a note, and as much time as I have spent in trying to improve my own handwriting, handwriting of any kind seems like a low priority to me for modern education!

It really wasn't responsive to anyone in particular as much as a general comment (perhaps made after your earlier post, but certainly not a shot across anyone's bow).

I teach high school seniors, so I am certainly abreast of where we are and where we need to be. I have taught Social Studies and Literature my entire career. Back when I was teaching strictly Literature, I even told the kids, "Look, I don't expect you to think about this stuff every day. It's my job, and I actually enjoy reading this, but I don't even think about it every day. I want you to be exposed to it, so if in the future some reference comes up, you can at least be apart of the conversation."

As a lover of dystopian literature, I'm afraid if we go down the path of "forget the liberal arts, and we'll get back to it later," I'm afraid "later" may never come.

 

[Traveling Man]

My own cursive is truly my own. It's a mixture of Spencerian, Palmer, and D'Nealian I have crafted over the years.

 

[oc_in_fw]

It really wasn't responsive to anyone in particular as much as a general comment (perhaps made after your earlier post, but certainly not a shot across anyone's bow).

I teach high school seniors, so I am certainly abreast of where we are and where we need to be. I have taught Social Studies and Literature my entire career. Back when I was teaching strictly Literature, I even told the kids, "Look, I don't expect you to think about this stuff every day. It's my job, and I actually enjoy reading this, but I don't even think about it every day. I want you to be exposed to it, so if in the future some reference comes up, you can at least be apart of the conversation."

As a lover of dystopian literature, I'm afraid if we go down the path of "forget the liberal arts, and we'll get back to it later," I'm afraid "later" may never come.

I am a bookworm myself, my favorite being of the dystopian bent. The public library in downtown Cleveland (a magnificent building) was my favorite haunt in high school. After school, my grandfather would drop me off at the Rapid (what C towners call a train) Station, ride it downtown, hit the library, stop by my favorite street dog vendor, then meet up with my grandmother and ride home with her. I did that at least once a week, and went earlier in the day when school was out.

I learned a very important lesson on public square- do NOT engage in street games. I was watching a shell game, and I was nailing it every time, whereas the guy that was actually playing was losing every time. I decided to try my hand, and ended up losing $10 and a wrist watch. Afterwards I realized I was set up Oh well, relatively cheap life lesson.

 

[carofe]

I cannot do it myself--I wish I could--but I think "kids" today take notes on laptops or similar.

I don't think so, laptops in the classroom are distracting and in business meeting as well (especially the typing sounds) People still take notes by hand at my work. I'm a software engineer working for a software-as-a-service company, pretty cutting edge stuff. People here are more techy than in lots of other places, and more than many schools.

 

[Raissermesser]

If cursive were truly obsolete, I wouldn't object to schools not teaching it. But the purpose of cursive is speed, and the purpose of penmanship is speed with clarity. The Palmer Method boasts speeds on par with a typewriter. Maybe. I do know I can jot notes down much faster with cursive writing than print, and could not get that through to the kids.

Note taking with pen and paper is not obsolete. It's not unknown for teachers or professors to ban the use of laptops and handhelds in class because they cannot determine if a student is taking notes or goofing off. This means notes are done on old fashioned lined paper and pencil or pen.

 

[The Knize]

"I do things like get in a taxi and say, "The library, and step on it.'" David Foster Wallace

I do not think I am personally different from many others posting. I spent a lot of time at the public library myself, and a fantasy of mine when I was a kid was a Twilight Zone-type end of the world scenario where I was left with all of the books of the world and time to read them.

<certainly not a shot across anyone's bow>

Certainly not taken as one!

<I teach high school seniors, so I am certainly abreast of where we are and where we need to be. I have taught Social Studies and Literature my entire career.>

Bless you for that, Good Sir. And your point about "I want you to be exposed to it, so if in the future some reference comes up, you can at least be apart of the conversation." is well-taken.

"Fiction's about what it is to be a human being." David Foster Wallace

I am immensely happy that I had the privilege of an extensive liberal arts education. I would want my leaders and folks like judges, and, I suppose, titans of industry, to have similar to draw on. There is no doubt in my mind that it "helps one think" and provides context. But I do not see how in 2017 we are going to be providing this kind of education for everyone through the public schools. Kids today, including my own, unfortunately, do not even get the "luxury" of such an education at the universities.

Again, I am not opposed to everyone learning a fast and legible handwriting system. I am opposed to trying to force kids to learn the loops and frills of things like Palmer method, which I personally an convinced serve no purpose whatever, unless decorative. Seems to me that the question of whether or not "cursive" should continue to be talk in the schools is a red herring.

And I am utterly opposed to trying to force kids to try to master something, not because it is useful in and of itself, but because it helps their brains develop somehow. Their is lots kids can be learning that would serve that function, while teaching them something substantive that is useful in life.

Anyway, Kate Gladstone says it a lot better than I can. See Kate Gladstone's Handwriting Repair FAQ

Just my more than two cents, of course. I could be wrong.

 

[Billski]

I feel very bad about it.

If something dies it makes me sad.

 

[Hepcat]

The schools here stopped teaching it. Initially, I was totally disgusted when my son's 3rd grade teacher told me this!

What do you think?

Further evidence of the dumbing down of educational standards over the years. "No child left behind" logically means that the bar has to be set at a level even the dumbest kid can hurdle. And that doesn't lead to a curriculum that's even remotely challenging.

 

[Captain Pre-Capsize]

"No child left behind" logically means that the bar has to be set at a level even the dumbest kid can hurdle. And that doesn't lead to a curriculum that's even remotely challenging.

Sadly, you have a good point. Kids should be inspired to rise to the challenge of stretching their minds. Instead, teachers are unfortunately in charge of telling kids to stop poking each other - classroom management it is called. Note how the politicians always choose a name that is hard to oppose. In this case, to oppose means that you are in favor of leaving children behind. Sigh...

The very best teacher I ever had was my senior year of high school, College Prep English. I did not do very well in the class but it taught me the value of working hard at something even though I was not that interested. We studied the rhyme, meter, and symbolism in classic sonnets by Donne, Shakespeare, Keats, etc. That was followed by a term paper, in my case on the symbolism in Moby Dick. Gads. Way over my head but I did my best. And I went off to college with a life skill of diligence even when I really didn't care about the topic. That life skill not only served me well in college but ever since in the workplace. And that, because I was pushed and challenged and really didn't excel but did my best.

 

[Billski]

I am a sponsor for a boy in India. He is in the 6th grade. This is his name: Venkata Ramulu Buthula.

I sent him 240 USD for schooling. That amount is equal to abut 2400 usd.

For Christmas my money got him 1 blanket, 2 towels, a book on Moral Ethics an 4 booklets on traditional

quotes. And he was thankful. His usual language is Telugu . He also in learning English. I am his sponsor,

and he is really good looking. He sent me a letter, but he did not write it in cursive. Maybe he will learn

that next.

 

[ackvil]

I am a sponsor for a boy in India. He is in the 6th grade. This is his name: Venkata Ramulu Buthula.

I sent him 240 USD for schooling. That amount is equal to abut 2400 usd.

For Christmas my money got him 1 blanket, 2 towels, a book on Moral Ethics an 4 booklets on traditional

quotes. And he was thankful. His usual language is Telugu . He also in learning English. I am his sponsor,

and he is really good looking. He sent me a letter, but he did not write it in cursive. Maybe he will learn

that next.

That's great that you are sponsoring a child. I sponsored a few children through the ChildFund or as it was known at that time the Christian Children's Fund. The church I belong to sponsors an orphanage in India.

 

[DocPapi]

Not sure it matters much whether one writes in cursive or not...do whatever works for you. The only issue I've found with my now adult children is that those who learned cursive in school have a "traditional" signature, while those who didn't print their names when asked for their signature and get odd looks. Of course, being needing to provide your signature is increasingly rare as personal checks and non-electronic documents are phasing out.

Perhaps a solution to the latter is to do what my friends in Chile back in the 1970s did. In school, they learned to print their names, write their names in cursive, and they were required to create their own unique signature. It usually resembled writing, but sometime did not, but was certainly unique to every person. On legal documents, there were three lines, one for your printed name, one for the cursive, and one for your legally unique signature. I had to create one on the spot when my carnet de identificación came up for renewal after my first year. It certainly left little room for confusion, and allowed people who didn't write well to at least be able to provide a legal signature when needed.

 

[MntnMan62]

Not sure it matters much whether one writes in cursive or not...do whatever works for you. The only issue I've found with my now adult children is that those who learned cursive in school have a "traditional" signature, while those who didn't print their names when asked for their signature and get odd looks. Of course, being needing to provide your signature is increasingly rare as personal checks and non-electronic documents are phasing out.

Perhaps a solution to the latter is to do what my friends in Chile back in the 1970s did. In school, they learned to print their names, write their names in cursive, and they were required to create their own unique signature. It usually resembled writing, but sometime did not, but was certainly unique to every person. On legal documents, there were three lines, one for your printed name, one for the cursive, and one for your legally unique signature. I had to create one on the spot when my carnet de identificación came up for renewal after my first year. It certainly left little room for confusion, and allowed people who didn't write well to at least be able to provide a legal signature when needed.

You are right. Signatures are needed less and less these days. But they are definitely still needed on bigger transactions. A Contract of Sale and Purchase to buy a house. A mortgage and note when borrowing to buy that home. A contract to buy a car. Even occasionally when using a credit card the machine asks for a signature. I think the move to go away from cursive is a disservice to these kids. block printing may be neater but it takes so much more time to do than cursive. And there will always be times when you need to write things down. Write a quick note to a colleague. Or write down your information when you get into a car accident. Or simply write a nice personalized note either a thank you or condolences for someone's loss. And what happens when the aliens come down and try and take over the planet, cutting off all internet and cell phone usage. What will we do then?

 

[DocPapi]

And what happens when the aliens come down and try and take over the planet, cutting off all internet and cell phone usage. What will we do then?

Write slower? You make good points about signatures, but if we each created our own unique signature, instead of assuming that a signature is just your name in cursive, that solves a lot of the problems you mentioned. As for the rest, again, I think its a matter of to each his own. Like many who have chimed in, I tend to write in a combination of (mostly) cursive coupled with some printing. Who am I to say anyone else should write the same way I do?

 

[Saxonbowman]

When I was in high school my English teacher said I had the worst handwriting in the entire school. These days he might have gotten in trouble for saying something negative. I didn’t hold it against him then or now. It was simply a fact. Clearly I didn’t enjoy handwriting practice. My mom on the other hand had the most beautiful Palmer method handwriting.

Ironically now I enjoy calligraphy. I can write passably if I take my time. If I hurry I descend into an illegible scrawl. I guess I sympathize with those who think it’s too much bother, but I wish I had made the effort. Easier than poking at this silly tablet!

 

[beginish]

My kids’ school uses computers and integrates them in the curriculum, but doesn’t really make regular use until late middle grades. Until then, they’re forced to work analog....for the better IMHO.

 

[The situational shaver]

Another classic example of people today abandoning anything with even a subtle
Trace of elegance or style.

 

[Doc4]

I for one think schools ought to make sure kids DON'T write down swear words.

Hooray progress!!