House Bill 1207 - Federal Reserve

[Blondie]

Not trying to create a political firestorm, and this really shouldn't, as nothing could be more bi-partisan than what this is about -MONEY!

As I am sure all of you know, America's monetary policy for the past 96 years has been implemented by the Federal Reserve. An institution owned by private banks, that has no oversight from Congress. They operate with no audits, and with complete immunity for their actions. They are not a part of the government. They maintain no reserves to shore up the currency.

Ron Paul has a Bill in play. It will allow for the first audit of the Federal Reserve in 96 years.

Please Google him, and read a little about his thoughts on the Federal Reserve. If you think the reserve should be audited, sign his petition.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Mr_Amazing]

I haven't been a fan of the Fed for a few years now. I love how on a ruler, an inch is always the same. It never changes lengths. You can actually rely on it. Something that was 28 inches in the 1800's is still 28 inches today. That is what I want the dollar to be, a measuring stick. This floating currency experiment has completely failed and pretty soon, a situation like that of Zimbabwe will happen. Instead of using money to buy toilet paper, you can use the money as toilet paper because it would be a less expensive alternative. [/rant]

 

[FLTiger]

I haven't been a fan of the Fed for a few years now. I love how on a ruler, an inch is always the same. It never changes lengths. You can actually rely on it. Something that was 28 inches in the 1800's is still 28 inches today. That is what I want the dollar to be, a measuring stick. This floating currency experiment has completely failed and pretty soon, a situation like that of Zimbabwe will happen. Instead of using money to buy toilet paper, you can use the money as toilet paper because it would be a less expensive alternative. [/rant]

I take it that you support returning to the gold standard?

 

[chainfire]

While an audit sounds good on paper, I'm not sure I understand the point of it beyond putting money in the pockets of the company doing the audit. I'm too stupid to accept or argue any of the findings they come up with anyway, so other than throwing good fake money after bad? What it will really accomplish?

I'm not against oversight, but in today's American politics, it just seems like most times these surveys, action committees, audits, etc are a way for a politician to grease the pockets of some company doing the consulting.

 

[tsmba]

The Fed has been quietly (sometimes not so quietly) been tinkering with the money supply, interest rates, etc. since its creation. There seems to be a perception that it is a necessary and benevolent entity, and that its politically-appointed leader knows what they are doing. i submit that none of these are true. It is amazing that when the economy goes south, we immediately were treated to endless accusations of "the failure of the free market"?

 

[kwk285]

With how inefficient and corrupt the agencies/departments of our government are run I don't know how an audit can catch all of the waste and theft.

 

[Blondie]

I haven't been a fan of the Fed for a few years now. I love how on a ruler, an inch is always the same. It never changes lengths. You can actually rely on it. Something that was 28 inches in the 1800's is still 28 inches today. That is what I want the dollar to be, a measuring stick. This floating currency experiment has completely failed and pretty soon, a situation like that of Zimbabwe will happen. Instead of using money to buy toilet paper, you can use the money as toilet paper because it would be a less expensive alternative. [/rant]

I couldn't agree with you more. There used to be a clear definition of what the dollar was, and that has gone the way of the DoDo. Speaking of Zimbabwe, another interesting study in economic failure is the German Hyperinflation. Happened between the two big wars. Through the use of a de-valued fiat currency, at one point it cost One Billion DM to mail a letter.

I take it that you support returning to the gold standard?

This is another discussion that Ron Paul takes on. The gold standard had it's own set of problems, so I don't know if that is the answer, but certainly some sort of commodity based system would be better. My biggest issue with the fed is that it is effectively unconstitutional. If we are going to use a fiat currency, why do we need the fed? We face different problems now. For example, what can the Fed do to get China to cease the practice of devaluing their own currency to keep export costs artificially low?

While an audit sounds good on paper, I'm not sure I understand the point of it beyond putting money in the pockets of the company doing the audit. I'm too stupid to accept or argue any of the findings they come up with anyway, so other than throwing good fake money after bad? What it will really accomplish?

I'm not against oversight, but in today's American politics, it just seems like most times these surveys, action committees, audits, etc are a way for a politician to grease the pockets of some company doing the consulting.

First of all, give yourself more credit than that. You may be too stupid to understand a false market like derivatives, but if you at least had the data you could have an opportunity to look at it. It's our money collectively, as taxpayers, that funds the fed. I for one would like to see what we are getting for our money. An audit is the start. The ultimate goal is to get rid of the Fed. We do not need it. Jefferson was against the concept of a central bank.

As far as throwing good fake money after bad, if it's fake, what's it matter? Part of the exercise is to fix the fake money. Making money out of thin air is what makes it so easy to spend the way politicians do. So what it accomplishes is forcing the discussion into the mainstream. It will help Washington set it's priorities. We need to fix the currency, and then fix healthcare, for example. I mean, what good is a public option if unemployment is 10% or higher? We'll still have uninsured, and they will still get care.

The Fed has been quietly (sometimes not so quietly) been tinkering with the money supply, interest rates, etc. since its creation. There seems to be a perception that it is a necessary and benevolent entity, and that its politically-appointed leader knows what they are doing. i submit that none of these are true. It is amazing that when the economy goes south, we immediately were treated to endless accusations of "the failure of the free market"?

I don't think a necessary and benevolent entity would have needed to be created in such a subversive manner. I believe it is there to hamstring free markets. Let's think about this, a bill, written by bankers, passed on Dec 23, with only three members present in the Senate. Yeah, that sounds benevolent to me. More like turning the asylum over to the lunatics...

 

[Blondie]

With how inefficient and corrupt the agencies/departments of our government are run I don't know how an audit can catch all of the waste and theft.

The GAO is actually pretty good at their jobs.

 

[Tha Baron]

You may be too stupid to understand a false market like derivatives, but if you at least had the data you could have an opportunity to look at it.

Why do you think that the derivatives markets are 'false'? Exchange traded options and futures are used by real businesses to manage risk... It's certainly not a false market as there are plenty of well established and stable exchnages like the NYMEX, CBOT, CME, LME, etc

I feel like the word 'derivate' is tossed around by politicians similar to the word 'terrorist' is used to evoke certain feelings out of a clueless general public...

 

[AndrewWiggin]

The Fed has just lost sight of the idea that we need control of the money supply and changed their position from lender of last resort to lender of first resort for banks. There used to be a stigma attached to a bank coming to the Fed to get money, as well there should be since it means the bank is worthless as it cannot procure funds from a private institution.

I appreciate the concept of the audit, but do you have any idea what that would do to our economy? The saving grace right now is that no one really understands just how bad our situation is. If the rest of the world (China) sees the books, they'd drop our T-Bills in a heartbeat. Shifting to a gold standard would be pointless then, since the monetary value of gold in dollars would be so astronomical that we wouldn't be able to acquire enough gold to back our currency. The dollar would go straight through the floor, and there would be a period of time where that could not be fixed. We would need control of the money supply before making that shift, but you're talking about distorting a bunch of markets (gold would run up in price, dollar would go nuts, markets would tank).

 

[Blondie]

Why do you think that the derivatives markets are 'false'? Exchange traded options and futures are used by real businesses to manage risk... It's certainly not a false market as there are plenty of well established and stable exchnages like the NYMEX, CBOT, CME, LME, etc

I feel like the word 'derivate' is tossed around by politicians similar to the word 'terrorist' is used to evoke certain feelings out of a clueless general public...

I will concede that to you. I was referring more to things like mortgage backed securities being traded on the open market.

The Fed has just lost sight of the idea that we need control of the money supply and changed their position from lender of last resort to lender of first resort for banks. There used to be a stigma attached to a bank coming to the Fed to get money, as well there should be since it means the bank is worthless as it cannot procure funds from a private institution.

I appreciate the concept of the audit, but do you have any idea what that would do to our economy? The saving grace right now is that no one really understands just how bad our situation is. If the rest of the world (China) sees the books, they'd drop our T-Bills in a heartbeat. Shifting to a gold standard would be pointless then, since the monetary value of gold in dollars would be so astronomical that we wouldn't be able to acquire enough gold to back our currency. The dollar would go straight through the floor, and there would be a period of time where that could not be fixed. We would need control of the money supply before making that shift, but you're talking about distorting a bunch of markets (gold would run up in price, dollar would go nuts, markets would tank).

Andrew, are you aware that the Federal Reserve is not part of the federal government? Are you aware that they are a private for profit entity? It supposedly works in the interest of the United States, but it reports to the World Bank and the IMF, rather than the American People. Now the SEC requires public companies to file quarterly and annual reports to investors. This is public information. I just think that an entity like the Federal Reserve, that makes all of it's profits from the American Monetary system should be accountable to the American people.

 

[raisindot]

Personally, I'd rather see that money used to perform an audit and conviction of all the greedy bankers that have received billions of dollars in taxpayer-funded corporate welfare and have repaid this generosity by foreclosing homes, tightening credit, charging obscene overdraft fees, and raising credit card rates to 30%, while still awarding themselves six figure salaries and billions of dollars in bonuses.

While we're at it, let's audit FINRA for ignoring all the shenanigans and ponzi scheming in the investment industry that led to a great deal of this mess as well.

 

[FLTiger]

One of the...dryer books I've read recently is Lords of Finance, which discusses, at length, the factors that led to the Great Depression.

 

[AndrewWiggin]

Andrew, are you aware that the Federal Reserve is not part of the federal government? Are you aware that they are a private for profit entity? It supposedly works in the interest of the United States, but it reports to the World Bank and the IMF, rather than the American People. Now the SEC requires public companies to file quarterly and annual reports to investors. This is public information. I just think that an entity like the Federal Reserve, that makes all of it's profits from the American Monetary system should be accountable to the American people.

What about it? Yes, it's not technically a part of the government but what difference does that make in real life? Either way, my point still stands, if we audited the Fed the result would be worse than what we have now. I'm not saying we shouldn't know what's going on, we just need to understand the consequences, and why, ultimately, it's never going to happen. No initiative short of a constitutional amendment will cause someone to audit the Fed.

Besides, what makes you think they are turning profits? How would they turn profits in the first place? The amount of crappy assets they've picked up along the past year or so has likely wiped them out, I would imagine that there's no real income to speak of, and their assets will have been adjusted so far down due to the market price that they'll be doing good just to have enough assets to cover a tenth of our liabilities.

Once the Chinese see what they likely suspect, their portfolios holding our debt will be worthless as well, because the credit ratings for the US government will go through the floor. All that would do is set off another round of downturn. We're screwed right now, but we're worse off by disclosing all of this, is what I'm trying to say.

The only real hope we've got right now is to get control of the money supply again, keep the dollar relatively afloat, and wait for China to implode so we can refinance our debt.

 

[jazzman]

Not trying to create a political firestorm, and this really shouldn't, as nothing could be more bi-partisan than what this is about -MONEY!

As I am sure all of you know, America's monetary policy for the past 96 years has been implemented by the Federal Reserve. ...

Yeah. The U.S. economy has been a real failure for the past 96 years.

 

[Blondie]

I never said the economy was a failure. All I asked is for you to review some materials, and make an educated decision. You don't have to challenge me on points. All I said is I think an entity that controls the US money supply should be subject to oversight.

I did not say the economy was a failure. I wasn't trying to insult you Andrew, just presenting a different way to think about money.

 

[highball]

This is what Thomas Jefferson had to say about this subject, seems he was right..

If the American people ever allow private banks to
control the issue of their money, first by inflation
and then by deflation, the banks and corporations
that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their
children will wake up homeless on the continent
their fathers conquered.
Thomas Jefferson


I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous
to our liberties than standing armies. Already they
have raised up a moneyed aristocracy that has set
the Government at defiance. The issuing power should
be taken from the banks and restored to the people to
whom it properly belongs.
Thomas Jefferson

 

[jazzman]

This is what Thomas Jefferson had to say about this subject, seems he was right..

If the American people ever allow private banks to
control the issue of their money, first by inflation
and then by deflation, the banks and corporations
that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their
children will wake up homeless on the continent
their fathers conquered.
Thomas Jefferson


I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous
to our liberties than standing armies. Already they
have raised up a moneyed aristocracy that has set
the Government at defiance. The issuing power should
be taken from the banks and restored to the people to
whom it properly belongs.
Thomas Jefferson

It's hard to disagree with those sentiments, particularly considering what happened a little over a year ago. But Jefferson certainly wasn't talking about the Fed and could not have imagined today's financial world. The problem I have with all of the recent anti-Fed talk is that rational alternatives are not being provided, the successes of the current system are overlooked, and the likelihood of a catastrophic transition period is not given enough weight. I think we'd be much better off if we rescinded the deregulation that happened in the '90's and '00's and gave Bernie Madoff a few hundred new roommates.

 

[e sinker]

It's hard to disagree with those sentiments, particularly considering what happened a little over a year ago. But Jefferson certainly wasn't talking about the Fed and could not have imagined today's financial world. The problem I have with all of the recent anti-Fed talk is that rational alternatives are not being provided, the successes of the current system are overlooked, and the likelihood of a catastrophic transition period is not given enough weight. I think we'd be much better off if we rescinded the deregulation that happened in the '90's and '00's and gave Bernie Madoff a few hundred new roommates.

Successes like the national dept? The American people owe Trillions to the private and secretive stake holders of the Fed.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10qlpk4f-4A[/YOUTUBE]

 

[SUMMERSRL]

I will concede that to you. I was referring more to things like mortgage backed securities being traded on the open market.

Andrew, are you aware that the Federal Reserve is not part of the federal government? It supposedly works in the interest of the United States, but it reports to the World Bank and the IMF, rather than the American People.

Oh come on.... Do you really believe the Federal Reserve "reports" to the World Bank and the IMF. Sheez.

As to the post that "private banks" own the FED. Who are these "private banks"? Name just one that shows, in any form, their "ownership" of the Federal Reserve Bank on any SEC or financial disclosure document.

As to the post that the FED is not a US Governmental agency.... the President nominates the Federal Reserve chairman and each of the seven members of the Board of Governors. The Senate approves or rejects those nominations as they see fit. That process, by the way, is exactly the same as the process for replacing Supreme Court Justices. The one primary difference is the appointment to the FED Board of Governors is for 14 years, not for life. And Board of Governors may only serve one full term.

While I appreciate that every citizen may hold their own opinions relative to the merits of any individual governmental agency or governmental employee or governmental policy, I think it does us all a disservice to interject false, made up facts, into the discussion.

Just one guy's opinion.....