What's new
  • Welcome back Guest!
    If you have been away from our site you may have to request a new password. Simply click on the link for "lost" password in the log in page.
    Thank you.
  • Guest
    The BST is now open, please note the changes in our guidelines to address the recent fraudulent activity. Ensure you read the guidelines prior to creating a sale thread in the Buy-Sell-Trade forum with special attention to the new photo and payment requirements.
    Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Honinig a TIPTLE with 3M lapping film

Now that I have more experience with honing and the 3M films I decided to put a new edge on my Thiers-Issard Pierre Thiers Hand Forged Limited Edition razor. I picked this razor up in the B/S/T forum a few months back. The previous owner had given the blade a mirror polish as he did not like the look of the cheap gold wash. I agree that it looks much better without the gold. While polishing the blade he also polished off the edge. When I first received it I put a basic edge on it using the Sypderco hones. While the edge was serviceable it was not very sharp or comfortable. I could have put a better edge on it with the Spyderco hones but I've really taken an interest in seeing what the lapping films can do. I put the best possible edge on my DD Satinedge with the Spyderco hones to compare to. The DD shaves very nicely. Not as good as a Feather AC but 75%-80% as good.

Here is the razor.



This is the honing equipment, a Hand American base, four glass plates loaded with 12u, 5u, 1u & 0.3u film & a leather strop charged with 0.5 CrO. The Hand American stuff is nice but hard to get.


This is the microscope and light box I use for taking micrographs.



To start I gave the razor 50 strokes on the Spyderco medium grit in order to get a fresh edge to work with.


I then started to work through the lapping films.

Here is the edge after 50 on the 12u film. It is somewhat smoother.


Here is the edge after 50 on the 5u film. It is progressing nicely.


Here is the edge after 50 on the 1u film. Nice and smooth.


At this point I switch over to a second bevel as explained by Tim Zowada. I think the two bevel approach has strong advantages for those of us with very heavy, coarse beards. All commercial razor blades employ a multiple bevel.

Here is the edge after applying four layers of electrical tape and giving it 30 on the 1u film. The bevel looks outstanding!! Super smooth and well defined. In retrospect, fifteen would have been a better number as the bevel is a little too big and will take a lot of work to remove latter if I want to go back to a single bevel. Live and learn.


Now I gave the blade its final polish on the 0.3u film. Mirror smooth and kind of cool to look at.


I stopped at this point. No CrO or hanging strop. I want to feel the blade on my face first. It sure looks like a wicked sharp blade! :biggrin: The hairs on my arm just kind of melt off. I can't wait to try it tomorrow!!:001_smile

I sure hope this finally gets me to Feather AC levels of comfort.

Joe
 
Thanks for posting!

I also use diamond lapping films for honing. 9um, 6um, 3um, 1.0um, and 0.5um. They are quite effective.

I have to get a higher powered scope. I check my honing under 45x. I was surprised that your initial pre-taped 1.0um fininsh wasn't smoother than it appears above. For me, at 45x it goes from quite visible striations at 3um, to almost polished at 1.0um, with some faints lines visible. And after 0.5um, it is mirror smooth.

Excellent, excellent post! Tell us how the shave was!
 
And one other thing: I also tried the double bevel one time (inconclusive for me), and as you say, it takes quite a bit to get it back to a single bevel if you go too far when establishing the double in the first place!

I do applaud the fact that you went with 4 layers of tape, as that is a more dramatic effect than simple one or two layers (I went with 5 myself for a 7/8 Friodur...)

I just recently saw a posting elsewhere about those QX3 scopes, those look like fun!!!!!:001_smile
 
too bad there isn't a way to do a double bevel without using tape every time. I got into straights so I could avoid using disposable stuff, and the tape thing doesn't fly for me.

I may have to come up with some kinda clip or roller/clamp assembly to fit the bill.
 
too bad there isn't a way to do a double bevel without using tape every time. I got into straights so I could avoid using disposable stuff, and the tape thing doesn't fly for me.
It's not like you have to use the tape very often, only when you hone. Using a few inches of tape when you hone twice a year is still a whole heck of a lot better than throwing away boxes full of used cartridges. If it really bothers you that much then when you take the tape off the razor put it back on the roll and re-use it next time - the adhesive is still fine, and the plastic will take many thousands of laps before wearing out.
 
Very nice walk through of the process. Taking the subjective nature of the outcome into consideration, I am very interested in the quality of shave you get straight off the film. The last image looked very sharp! I might want to give that a try.

Kind regards,
 
Very impressive pictures. When I first picked up my Radio Shack microscope I thought the edge looked like the craters on the moon. Your razor looks more like a shot taken of a DE blade.
Let us know how it shaves, since that is the important part.

Glen
 
Well, my shave this morning was very, very nice! :001_smile Smooth and comfortable. The best shave yet from a regular straight razor. I'd say 80%-90% as good as a Feather AC. There was very little pulling or scraping, just the smooth "tink, tink" of the hairs being cut. The proper angle for holding the razor has changed with the new bevel. It might take a shave or two to find the sweet spot. I am impressed with the edge produced by these films. I'll shave with this razor all next week and see if the edge degrades. I don't expect it will due to the higher angle but we will see. Tonight I will strop on my latigo hanging strop only. Tomorrow night I will re-tape the blade and give it 15 on the CrO strop followed by the hanging strop. It will be interesting to see if there is a difference.

Next I intend to replicate this edge on my DD Satinwedge and see if the heavier grind and different steel make a difference.

These QX5 microscopes are a lot of fun. You get a whole lot of bang for your $90 bucks. I think the reason my standard edge does not look as smooth as others is because I am using very high power combined with side light. This reveals even the smallest scratch and can make them look bigger than they are.

Joe
 
Damn, I'm weak.. Ordered the QX5 now.. excepting my honing skills to excell withing minutes... :lol:

Where do you buy that honing film?, I found some earlier that stock these, but alas, no shipping to Norway. (I really gotta move outta here someday.. :mad3: )
 
Here is the edge after applying four layers of electrical tape and giving it 30 on the 1u film. The bevel looks outstanding!! Super smooth and well defined. In retrospect, fifteen would have been a better number as the bevel is a little too big and will take a lot of work to remove latter if I want to go back to a single bevel. Live and learn.
Are you refering to fifteen layers of tape?, or going down to 15 laps?
4 compared to 15 layers of tape would be very thick?, I would guess that the electrical tape around the world have the same thickness, at least mine is somewhat thick.
Since people say x layers, maybe we should check around aproximately how thick the tapes are?

Now I gave the blade its final polish on the 0.3u film. Mirror smooth and kind of cool to look at.
Very nice, how many laps on the 0.3micron?

And where did you buy these films?, I cannot find someone that stocks these in Norway yet.

Are the lappingfilms some of these?
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...tsandservices/products/abrasives/LappingFilm/
 
I think you will have alot of fun with the QX5. It does need some modification to reach its full potential though. You'll need to remove the bottom light and use an external source for lighting from beneath. The top light is nowhere near bright enough for working at 200x. I use a very bright LED flashlight when taking micrographs of razors.

I used 4 layers of tape. 15 would be kind of crazy.:wink:

I gave it 20 laps on the 0.3 micron.

I decided to try a little experiment the other day. I tried waxing the blade after stropping it to see if that might reduce friction. I used a micro-crystalline wax. I was unable to discern any difference in performance. I'd like to find some kind of lubricant that can be applied to the blade at home. They use PTFE on commercial blades, but that is not practical at home.

Joe
 
Good, information about modifications and thinks like that is of very much use.
LED flash, is it of these with about 7-9 led's in a circle? I think I have seen such things.
What about the lightbox under, how much effect does that light have?

Yeah, I stacked 15 layers to see how much it was.. gosh, that is some tape :)
My caliper tells me that my electrical tape i 0.2mm thick or 0.0075inch
four layers is 0.76mm, 0.0295inch, and 15 layers is 2.94mm, 0.1155 inch.
So maybe my elektrical is to thick, but 2.94mm elevation of the spine is a lot.. If I remembered my cos/sin thingy from calculus I could calculate the edges angle, but, blush, that part of my brain is gone, and replaced with some on the creative side instead :D
 
I use an Inova light. This one. It is very bright and the battery lasts a long time. I like flashlights. :smile:

I use a photographer's lightbox for lighting from below. A small one is fine. You can see a picture of mine above.

Yes, 15 layers would be waaaay too much. ;-> I think four is probably one too many as well.

I've been shaving with this edge all week. Today was the 5th day. It seems to be getting a bit harsh. I am stropping every night on my latigo strop from Tony. I think I will give it 10 laps on the 1u and 10 on the 0.3u tonight and see if that refreshes the edge.

Joe
 
Here is what the edge looked like after 5 days of use.



It has some wear but nothing really visible at the edge.

Last night I gave it 10 laps on each of the 1u & 0.3 followed by stropping on CrO. It shaved much smoother this morning. Clearly the edge is degrading at a rapid pace. I wonder if stropping it on the hanging strop is even doing anything. It is unclear if the edge of the blade makes contact without the tape on the spine. I will hone my DD Satinwedge with the 3M films this weekend but I won't use a double bevel. We'll see if that makes a difference in edge life.

Joe
 
That edge still looks pretty nice!

Alas, you have now gone in search of "perfection", and nothing less shall ever do again!:biggrin:

Had you previously used the films all the way down to 0.3um on any other razors, or is this the first one?
 
Yeah, I stacked 15 layers to see how much it was.. gosh, that is some tape :)
My caliper tells me that my electrical tape i 0.2mm thick or 0.0075inch
four layers is 0.76mm, 0.0295inch, and 15 layers is 2.94mm, 0.1155 inch.
So maybe my elektrical is to thick, but 2.94mm elevation of the spine is a lot.. If I remembered my cos/sin thingy from calculus I could calculate the edges angle, but, blush, that part of my brain is gone, and replaced with some on the creative side instead :D
You should definately not think about using that much tape, 4 layers is too much as well. If you want to use tape then 1 piece is enough for the main edge.
 
You should definately not think about using that much tape, 4 layers is too much as well. If you want to use tape then 1 piece is enough for the main edge.
If you are going for the double bevel though to emulate a Feather edge, you do need 4 pieces of tape, depending on the size of the blade.

For my Friodur 7/8 it has a natural blade angle of ~18 degrees. I used my SolidWorks CAD drafting software to calculate what it would require to get the double bevel edge to a Feather 22 degree angle, and it worked out to be 5 layers of tape.

I didn't strop the edge when I did my experiment, as that final edege is soooo smooth and shiny to begin with.

That being said, I didn't notice any difference in my shave:blushing:, and have since gone back to a single bevel (that took quite some time to reset the bevel!).
 
Feather edge is not double bevel., at least not the edge I was looking at. one bevel only, but the IP Blue is double bevel., I'm going to check all my DE blades to se how they are.
Or maybe you are refering to Feather AC blades?, Those I don't know anything about.
 
Top Bottom